Just got my first discography...

[ghost of miles]

We're having our annual book sale, and a colleague just came downstairs and gave me a book that he plucked out: Charles Delaunay's NEW HOT DISCOGRAPY, 1948 edition, edited by Walter Schaap and George Avakian. I know it's very out-of-date at this point, but I'm still happy to get it. A bit scared, too, because I imagine acquiring discographies to be habit-forming--extremely habit-forming.

[BeBop]

Discographies are also a gateway drug for more CD (and LP...) buying. You'll undoubtedly find something you JUST CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT. (See Completist thread.)

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I think the Delaunay can still hold interest for the modern-day jazz fan because of how it is organized. It's not set up like later works (strictly alphabetical and chronological within that), rather, it is grouped by style and player, so all the Bix stuff is together with Goldkette, Whiteman, etc. then moving to Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, followed by the Chicagoans - and so forth.

Now, as you well know, the problem is that other than the leaders, some personnel, and the song titles, everything in there is pretty much useless if you're actually trying to look something up. There aren't any recording dates and the issues are all 78s.

The other way I find the Delaunay useful is for just knowing what records the book included as well as what was out there at the time and how it was considered - because Hot Discographie was so influential that some people swore by it and anything that wasn't included wasn't worth their time.

All in all, it was a revolutionary effort and God bless Charles Delaunay for paving the way for everyone else.

Mike

[Christiern]

Delaunay also published supplemental volumes--I don't know how many there were, but I have Vol. 3 (El - He) from 1952.

I also have a few volumes of "Jazz Directory," a multi volume discography by Dave Carey and Albert J. McCarthy. They changed publishers around Vol. 6 (1957), which is where the series ended, prematurely. The books were slim with page numbers continuing from one vol. to the next; No. 6 goes from page 927 to 1112. McCarthy picked it up again in 1960, but with a different approach--the concept was to publish a series of discographies, each of which would cover a year's releases. Now called "Jazz Discography," it started with 1958, which I have.

Another early jazz discographer was Orin Blackstone. His first volume comprised 118 pages, from Ben Abney to Will Ezell. The period Blackstone sought to cover was 1917 to 1944, the idea being to expand on Delaunay's work and supplement it with data found in magazines and newspapers, and furnished by collectors. Blackstone planned 4 volumes, but I'm not sure if he finished them. I have Vol. 1.

I guess all these early efforts were relegated to a back shelf by Rust's monumental "Jazz Records 1897-1942, which remains the standard for that period. Jepsen's Jazz Records series picked up where Rust left off and Erik Raben's "Jazz Records 1942-80 was to have been the update/replacement, but he only reached Vol. 7 before Tom Lord introduced competition. Unfortunately, my friend, the late Karl Knudsen, who published the Jepsen and Raben discographies never established an efficient distribution of the books, so Lord was able to cut into the business with a discography that owes much to the earlier works of others, but is weak on original material and, frankly, sloppy.

Do you agree, Mike?

[Z-Man]

Is Walter Schaap Phil's father?

[Christiern]

Yes, and, unlike son, a very nice person.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The more I work with the Lord CD-ROM the more disgusted I get at the complete incompetence. Either the entry work was done by helper monkeys or no one actually bothered to review/edit the material. Could be both, I suppose.

I mean, when the same identical session appears CONSECUTIVELY (often times with one correct and one wrong) - what does this tell you?

BTW, Lord's excuse to this kind of thing is "Well, better twice than not at all."

I've found cases where even Jepsen includes information (issues, for example) that Lord omits.

I think the updates to Delaunay you're talking about are actually a separate work "Hot Discographie Encyclopedique" (three parts, ending with He-) - in these Delaunay and Kurt Mohr moved away from the stylistic categories and into the alphabetical organization. I don't have a copy myself, unfortunately.

And 1958 was the start *and* the end of the yearly updates to Jazz Directory.

Those interested in some of the history might like this article:

http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Essays/obsess.htm

Mike

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Following up -

The Blackstone project never got past volume one.

Regarding the fatal flaw of the Raben books - I don't see it so much as the distribution issue. It was more the publication pace. Raben got off to a slow start - the project was announced in 1972 but the first book didn't come off the presses until 1989. I think a lot of people were already going with the Walter Bruyninckx discographies, which although quite problematic at first, got better - and were actually completed, several times, in fact). They also had the benefit of covering the entire history of jazz, not just post-war.

Lord did take advantage of the distribution problems that Bruyninckx (and Raben) had. His books were readily available and kept on coming. Beginning in 1992, Lord almost immediately passed Raben - in 1993, Lord was up to Go-. Raben published vol. 7, Ell-Fra, in 1999, by which time Lord reached Tho-.

The crying shame is that of all the people who have produced general discographies, Lord is the least qualified, does the least original research, and apparently is the least concerned with accuracy. But thanks to his marketing, his is the discography in widest circulation. The competition seemed to look at discography as a one-man hobby operation (and this approach has proved to be very successful in terms of accuracy), but wasn't prepared for the blitzkrieg. Lord seems to hire data entry workers, subcontract computer programming, etc. The work gets done - but it's not done well.

Personally, I own Delaunay, Rust, Jepsen, Raben, several sets of Bruyninckx (including the CD-ROM), and Lord. Plus a number of the Michel Ruppli books, and numerous artist or label discographies - and ain't none of them perfect yet. But I think that even most people who are nuts enough to own *any* discographies aren't about to purchase multiple sets that ostensibly cover the same material (but maybe I'm wrong based on how people rebuy re-re-re-issues) . I completely understand why Raben lost the war - but I'd still pay good money for future volumes of his research.

Mike

[Christiern]

Karl K told me that Raben had completed another volume, but he couldn't afford to publish it. A real shame that mediocrity floats to the top.

[Brad]

Is Walter Schaap Phil's father?

Slightly off topic but Dick Schaap is related to Walter and Phil Schaap. I believe Walter Schaap was his uncle.