Electronically Re-Recorded Blue Note LPs

[Leeway]

OK, I know that this little notice on an LP jacket is anathema to collectors. And I know that a lot of companies resorted to this in order to move product when stereo caught on. But I still have some questions:

1) What exactly does "electronically re-recorded" mean? What exactly is done to the recording?

2) I know this approaches heresy, but are the results of such tinkering always bad?

3) It seems odd that Blue Note, which made such terrific sounding LPs, would resort to this. How many titles did they do this to? and for what period of time? and who carried out the process?

4) I've heard that in many cases, although the "electronically re-recorded" label was on the LP, nothing had actually been done to the original recording. Is that true in the case of Blue Notes?

Hope some other vinyl-philes can answer some of these questions.

[Jim Alfredson]

1) What exactly does "electronically re-recorded" mean? What exactly is done to the recording?

A lot of times this means that they electronically separate certain frequenices. So for instance the "highs" all go to one side of the speaker (or maybe are doubled and panned hard left and hard right to produce a pseudo-stereo image) and the "lows" are on the other side. That's a simplistic explanation but...

[Claude]

Usually the method is called "electronically rechannelled to simulate stereo", as nothing is re-recorded.The signal is processed in order to create a fake stereo effect. As the original recordings are mono, this is completely artificial and has nothing to do with high fidelity.

What they did:

The mono signal was sent to the right and left channels of the mixing console

- one channel is slightly delayed (out of phase). This creates a vague spatial effect. Try the extreme version: put on a mono recording and invert the +/- cables of one of the loudspeaker.

- bass is boosted on one channel and treble on the other. This is supposed to give the impression that the bass player is one channel and the cymbals on the other. However instruments which cover the whole frequency spectrum will move from one channel to the other depending on the notes they play.

But with these methods it is of course impossible to seperate instruments effectively. True stereo means that individual instruments can be located between the speakers, while "rechannelled mono" only makes both channels sound different.

Today it is hard to understand why somebody would do this. You can't recreate stereo from mono recordings. But Sony did a similar thing with some multichannel SACDs made from 3-channel tapes (Kind of Blue, Time out): The three channels are sent to to the front left, right and center speakers, while the rear speakers get an artificial reverb created from the front channels. Maybe this added ambience effect sounds fine, but it has nothing to do with fidelity. Here at least the listener can choose not to use the rear signal, but with "rechanneled stereo" using the mono switch on the amp will not get the original mono signal back.

Edited December 21, 2003 by Claude

[Chuck Nessa]

The "original" BN never issued fake stereo lps. In the late '60s the new owner (Liberty) issued a bunch of them as mono was eliminated from the food chain. One funny aspect of this is the art department made the changes to the covers and the tape department found a bunch of real stereo tapes for a number of sessions. As a result some Liberty BNs with the fake stereo logo are real stereo.

Please don't ask which ones - they are purged from my collection and I don't remember.

Edited December 21, 2003 by Chuck Nessa

[Matthew]

Please don't ask which ones - they are purged from my collection and I don't remember.

This post has been edited by Chuck Nessa on Dec 20 2003, 04:21 PM

Quick recovery for an "elder" of the board!

Edited December 21, 2003 by Matthew

[Chuck Nessa]

Quick recovery for an "elder" of the board!

Not so bad yourself.

[Leeway]

The LP that prompted me to post this thread is: "Whitle Stop," by Kenny Dorham.

The LP jacket is a Liberty jacket ("Blue Note, A product of Liberty Records"). The album number is given as 84063.

On the back panel is the "electronically re-recorded" [ not "re-channeled"] notice in small type in upper-right hand corner.

The LP itself, however, is a United Artists issue (so stated), with the blue label and large black letter "b" on the label.

In the dead wax is "BN ST 84063."

So, is this a "real" stereo issue (perhaps thus the "re-recorded") or a mono that has been re-channeled?

[Chuck Nessa]

Real stereo.

[Leeway]

Real stereo.

That's good news, and kin of what I thought. Odd about the "electronically re-recorded" notice. Then again the whole package is kind of a melange: Liberty jacket; UA vinyl and inner sleeve; stereo issue, etc. I suppose one lesson is to check the dead wax for clues.

[Shrdlu]

The greatest irony for me is the fact that Columbia apparently didn't know that the Miles Davis "Milestones" and "Green Dolphin Street" sessions were recorded in stereo, and issued (horrible-sounding) fake stereo LPs of this music; not only that, they deleted (similar to what you said, Chuck) the mono versions, which sounded fine. It wasn't until the 6 CD box set came out that we got to hear the real stereo versions of all of these performances; a little earlier, a CD entitled "58 Sessions" had the stereo version of the "Green Dolphin Street" session.

Mind you, they also put out the first three tracks of "Kind Of Blue" at the wrong pitch. It's a wonder that Miles did not notice this and ask them to correct it.