Hot Ptah

BFT168 Diacussion Thread

49 posts in this topic

Yeah. Didn't do too well with the rest, I think. Got the Abdullah Ibrahim, though none of us seem to know which album it comes from.

MG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Yeah. Didn't do too well with the rest, I think. Got the Abdullah Ibrahim, though none of us seem to know which album it comes from.

MG

Spoontaneous said that it comes from Abdullah Ibrahim's "Ekaya". That is the name of the album that it comes from.

https://img.discogs.com/UPUEeskXyRBbcNsJR-jLKwiNdaw=/fit-in/598x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2209705-1437329333-7874.jpeg.jpg

Edited by Hot Ptah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

21 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

BFT168

 

Well, here we are; Missus getting Grandson #2 to karate but reporting an accident having blocked the road on the return, so she doesn’t know how late she’s gonna be. What an opportunity!

When you are married, you grab your fun when you can!

 

1 Ah, an audience; unrecognisable, I’m afraid. As for the band, sounds like someone playing Monk at a burlesque (music hall) show. Not something I’d willingly encounter even on a dark night. I know the tune well, but can’t be asked to call the title to mind.

There was a certain burlesque element to Sun Ra concerts, certainly not in a traditional burlesque show sense, but the shows were theatrical.

 

2 An organist. Playing ‘Satin doll’. Happy to wind up the volume. I suspect this is a lady organist; she’s a bit well behaved. The tenor player has an awful sound; he probably sounds better in the bath. Someone playing with a sound like this doesn’t deserve to be listened to with any great attention. Sometimes the organist reminds me of Rhoda Scott, but not in her chorded chorus; I think Rhoda plays MUCH better than this.

 

It is Sun Ra on organ, so not a lady organist. From when I saw Sun Ra play organ live, he is not pulling out all the stops here. Tenor saxophonist John Gilmore is a favorite of some on this board. This is not his greatest recording. I like this recorded performance overall, as a Sun Ra performance that is not as intense as many of his recordings.

 

3 Indian percussion going on here makes me think this is a fairly modern recording. Oh, in comes a sitar. Well, it’s not that it’s not nice and pleasant. It’s more that I don’t really care.

 

I think this is the kind of thing that you either find rather hypnotic and peaceful, or that you don't care about at all.

 

4 Pleasant-sounding guitarist playing a tune that sounds as if it’s something everyone knows except me. He sounds a bit amateur, with all those halts or slow-motion bits, like he hasn’t had the lesson on swing yet.

I think that everyone will be quite surprised at the identity of the guitarist.

 

5 Something swinging a little bit funkily on ‘Dat dere’. It’s not a version I’ve heard before. Pretty nice, though he sounds like he’s playing a little fast for his ability. Must be someone I’ve heard of but haven’t got into properly. Drummer sounds a bit too much or too loud or something. But this sounds like someone I should look into.

I think that everyone will be quite surprised at the identity of the pianist.

 

6 I’m looking for the tune and ain’t finding one; just a bunch of bits for two minutes forty-two. Maybe the idea is to produce a tune full of quotes.

This has been identified. It is a Duke Ellington composition, "Le Sucrier Velours," which in its full band version was part of "The Queen's Suite", a multi-song suite recorded in 1959. At that time, one copy of the side long suite was pressed and presented to Queen Elizabeth II.

In 1976, "The Queen's Suite" was released to the public for the first time on Pablo Records. "The Queen's Suite" also includes the beautiful composition "Single Petal of a Rose."

In the full band version on "The Queen's Suite", the song "Le Sucrier Velours" takes shape as having a definite tune, not a bunch of bits or quotes.

This track is Duke's solo piano version of the song, recorded in 1972. It was released in 2017 on the Storyville label.

As I have heard the full band version from "The Queen's Suite" over 100 times in my life, I found the solo piano version quite interesting

 

. The_Ellington_Suites.jpg

 

Quote

 

Well, my wife was mistaken about traffic holdups on the way home. So I'm full of dinner now with the washing up done, too.

7 Oh, this is nice, shades of ‘I water the front cover’. I SHOULD know this tenor player. But I don’t. Sounds like Richard Wyands being ornate on piano. There’s a lot that’s very familiar about the tenor man; I think I’m going to howl when I find out who it is.

The tenor man has been identified as Ricky Ford. The composition, album and other musicians have not been identified yet. The pianist is not Richard Wyands, although that is a good guess.

8 Flute player. I’m quite poor on flute players, but I’m sure it’s not David Newman. Or Herbie Mann, for that matter. He’s flowing quite nicely, though. Zounds! I KNOW this! I’m sure I’ve got it somewhere. Well, now I’m NOT sure. But NOW I think this is Abdullah Ibrahim. Something from the ‘Ekaya’ album, but none of the timings fit, so it must be one of the others.

It is from the "Ekaya" album, by Abdullah Ibrahim.

9 Ah, go on, pull the other one.

I don't understand the reference.

 

10 Well, this COULD be a late Gerald Wislon cut. I think he lost his touch sometime in the seventies or eighties, though I haven’t heard a lot of it. But it’s a bit like his recent things that I don’t like nearly as much as his PJ work. Of course, it could be Bobby Bryant. The trumpet soloist sounds a bit like him. It’s all good but doesn’t seem to have a directed intention behind it.

Your guesses are not correct here.

11 Oh THIS I know, and have. It’s Illinois Jacquet.

You correctly identified this in a later post as Willis Jackson.

 

12 ‘Take the A train’ by someone not too unfamiliar. Actually it’s by someone not too familiar to ME; Duke Ellington, I think. Nah, I know that tenor player better than I know Paul Gonsalves. You know, it could be ANOTHER Jacquet.

This has been identified as Earl Bostic playing 'Steam Whistle Jump", which is "Take the A Train" with a new title, presumably so that someone could grab some royalties . I would bet that Earl Bostic received none of them.

13 Don’t know the tune but the guitarist sounds like Freddie King got into a big band by mistake and didn’t leave quickly enough.

That is very funny! This has been identified as Ike Turner on guitar.

14 Noises pretending they’re music.

Now there is a handy all-purpose pithy review which could be applied to many things I have heard in my life. I would not include this track as being among them, but to each their own.

15 Nice stuff to start with. A bit reminiscent of some Abdullah Ibrahim stuff, but a bit too undirected for him. Well, quite a LOT too undirected for him, I say, as the band starts to give its impression of swinging movie music. Not for me, thanks. Off I go to listen to Lord Kitchener. HE swings!

I did not think that you would enjoy this track much. I saw this exact band live in their prime, and it was quite rousing live.

 

MG

 

 

Edited by Hot Ptah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Spoontaneous said that it comes from Abdullah Ibrahim's "Ekaya". That is the name of the album that it comes from.

https://img.discogs.com/UPUEeskXyRBbcNsJR-jLKwiNdaw=/fit-in/598x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2209705-1437329333-7874.jpeg.jpg

Well, I thought it did, but I couldn't understand (still can't) why none of the times on my copy matched the timing on this one. So I decided it had to be a different version of one of the tunes. I didn't try to identify the tune by listening to each track, because it seemed a fruitless exercise, given that it couldn't be one of those tracks. But I WOULD like to know why they're different.

MG

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 Thanks for coming up with the identification on that opening Sun Ra track. That was driving me crazy, which of the many Sun Ra albums it could be from.

I have the Tin Can Alley album and recognized that one. That is a good album by Jack DeJohnette, with some varied styles of music.

Edited by Mary6170

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Well, I thought it did, but I couldn't understand (still can't) why none of the times on my copy matched the timing on this one. So I decided it had to be a different version of one of the tunes. I didn't try to identify the tune by listening to each track, because it seemed a fruitless exercise, given that it couldn't be one of those tracks. But I WOULD like to know why they're different.

MG

I posted on the Offering and Looking For section of the board, asking if anyone had a CD copy of Abdullah Ibrahim's "Ekaya' album, as I do not have access to a turntable and had not heard my LP copy in years. A generous member made a CD-R copy for me from his LP. I used his CD-R copy, taken from his LP, for the source material for this Blindfold Test selection. It could be that with all of the multiple burnings and downloadings of the track, which originated on an LP, that the timing got off from what is listed in published sources. Otherwise, I cannot explain it.

19 minutes ago, Mary6170 said:

 Thanks for coming up with the identification on that opening Sun Ra track. That was driving me crazy, which of the many Sun Ra albums it could be from.

I have the Tin Can Alley album and recognized that one. That is a good album by Jack DeJohnette, with some varied styles of music.

There are indeed many Sun Ra albums, and many with live performances of swing era material. This "Paris 1983" album, first released in December, 2015, is one of my favorite Sun Ra live albums. It did not seem to get a lot of attention when it was released. I think that the swing era material is performed more precisely and tightly on "Paris 1983" than on several other Sun Ra albums. Sun Ra's  "Unity" album on Horo Records also has precisely performed swing era material.

I was a big Jack DeJohnette fan in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and eagerly purchased his albums as they were released. "Tin Can Alley" did not disappoint!

58 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Ah, you are the only one to identify Kamasi Washington as the artist on Track 9. I am struck by Thom Keith's positive reaction to the track, in his comments. Now that the hype about Kamasi Washington's three CD set "The Epic" has died down, we can listen to Kamasi Washington and make up our minds about his current playing. "Humility" is from his 2017 EP release, "Harmony of Difference," on the Young Turks label.

Edited by Hot Ptah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Kamasi stuff I’ve heard has been easily enough identified. It’s got that quality of all the trappings happening all at once that hardly ever happens the first time around, in real time. That’s not a criticism, just an observation, maybe something to do with turning answers into questions and not the other way around. But people need their versions of what they need, so there it is. I’m neither offended by nor interested in that, I got my version of it already, so, you know, god bless the child.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, JSngry said:

The Kamasi stuff I’ve heard has been easily enough identified. It’s got that quality of all the trappings happening all at once that hardly ever happens the first time around, in real time. That’s not a criticism, just an observation, maybe something to do with turning answers into questions and not the other way around. But people need their versions of what they need, so there it is. I’m neither offended by nor interested in that, I got my version of it already, so, you know, god bless the child.

I agree that what he does is rather derivative of a style of early 1970s jazz. For me, the jury is still out on whether he will be able to bring anything extra to it. I like the energy with which he brings it now, although I can recognize that he is not plowing new ground.

Edited by Hot Ptah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not so much derivative to my ears as it is reconstructive/remix-ive. It's like it's all of these 70s "spiritual jazz" records played at the same time for every song, all of them turned into one song that is different every time but still the same song. I don't know but that the poster (Thom, perhaps?) who wondered if it was electronically created or whatever is that far off, because people younger than us have been living with sampling and other means of digital reality more or less organically for a looooong time now, so for them, this "all at once" notion of what music sounds like is perfectly natural and real. It's like, they don't have to wait for the next Doug Carn or McCoy Tyner record to come out to know what comes next, those records already came out, so they already know what comes next. So, put it all together, it doesn't matter, the wait is over, as far as that goes, here is what happened, put together and made to come out, again in spurts, but a new kind of spurt now, new spurts of reformatted yesterday.

Analog people are getting left behind for not accepting Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler as quantum mechanics and instead deciding it was a bunch of chaotic jumblenoise, everything happening all at once. Well, like it or not, that's a provable scientific fact, and if analog won't embrace it, digital will not only embrace it, it will make babies with it.

Now, whether or not digital has your best interests at heart...we'll see. But humanity had a choice and they made it. So here we are, these are our babies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim, I understand what you are saying about Kamasi Washington. I heard the spiritual jazz era of the 1970s as it was happening.

it is important to put Kamasi into historical context and find him wanting.

On another level, a more superficial level, is he enjoyable to listen to, knowing that he is deribative? For me, the answer is yes, and to a greater extent than many other musicians who are plowing old ground. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As important as it is to recognize how much he resembles his forbearers, it's equally important to recognize how he differs from them. His overall constructs are not theirs. This needs to be appreciated, and if one is so inclined, enjoyed, because he is not "just" replaying the 70s. There's too much hip-hop esthetic in there for it to be simple imitation, it's different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is such an interesting discussion!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I know Track number 3. It is from Karuna Supreme, an album by Ali Akbar Khan and John Handy. This is the song titled “Karuna Supreme”. 

Edited by Mary6170

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Mary6170 said:

I know Track number 3. It is from Karuna Supreme, an album by Ali Akbar Khan and John Handy. This is the song titled “Karuna Supreme”. 

That is the correct album and artists. The song included here is “Ganesha’s Jubilee Dance.”

Edited by Hot Ptah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the pianist on Track 5 Albert Dailey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mary6170 said:

Is the pianist on Track 5 Albert Dailey?

No, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the pianist on Track 5 Stanley Cowell?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mary6170 said:

Is the pianist on Track 5 Stanley Cowell?

No, not Stanley Cowell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wondering what people have to say about 14. And if anybody has good guesses on 15. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2018 at 6:23 PM, Hot Ptah said:

Ah, you are the only one to identify Kamasi Washington as the artist on Track 9. I am struck by Thom Keith's positive reaction to the track, in his comments. Now that the hype about Kamasi Washington's three CD set "The Epic" has died down, we can listen to Kamasi Washington and make up our minds about his current playing. "Humility" is from his 2017 EP release, "Harmony of Difference," on the Young Turks label.

I am surprised by this.  Mostly because a friend recently sent me a Kamasi video that I found completely uninspiring.  He was knocked out by it and I was completely turned off by it.  Just listened again, and I still like it.  Hey, there's a recording of Joe Lovano with The Jazz Orchestra that knocks me out, though Joe usually causes me to break out in a rash.  It happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, tkeith said:

I am surprised by this.  Mostly because a friend recently sent me a Kamasi video that I found completely uninspiring.  He was knocked out by it and I was completely turned off by it.  Just listened again, and I still like it.  Hey, there's a recording of Joe Lovano with The Jazz Orchestra that knocks me out, though Joe usually causes me to break out in a rash.  It happens.

I think that this was one of the goals of the original Blindfold Test, to get unexpected reactions to music when the listener did not know who they were listening to.

i thought that this particular track was the most memorable from Kamasi’s 2017 release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With April 1 falling on Sunday, and being a holiday with family events, I will post the Reveal on Monday, April 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.