Blindfold Test 175 Discussion Thread Again

[CardinalJazzFan]

http://thomkeith.net/index.php/blindfold-tests/

 

There is the link to BFT 175, which was accidentally deleted with all of your comments, as Hot Ptah has explained. Please start with your comments again! I hope that we can have a robust discussion in the days that remain in October.

[Milestones]

I got a few of these when it was first posted, and I was close on #2 (knew it was Tyner) and #3 (knew it was Haden and thought it was Ornette).  

Track #2 is "Uptown" from Tyner's Inner Voices. 

Track #5 is "Hub-Tones" by Kamasi Washington.

Track #6 is "De Pois do Amor" from Wayne Shorter's Odyssey of Iska.

Track #7 is "Dreaming of the Master" by Art Ensemble of Chicago.

Track #9 is "Exaltation/Religious Experience" by Carla Bley Big Band.

Track #13 is "Shepp's Way" by Charlie Haden and Archie Shepp (The Golden Number)

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Milestones

[Hot Ptah]

I find Track 1 very interesting. The vocalist has the genuine old jazz sound and phrasing. I like her singing very much. The band is playing in the style of her era, but it sounds like a very contemporary recreation to me. The guitarist does not quite get the sound of the earlier era. This almost sounds to me like the soundtrack for the "Bird" film, in which Charlie Parker's solos were overdubbed over contemporary rhythm section playing.

 

Track 2 is the only non-vocal selection from McCoy Tyner's Milestone album, "Inner Voices". I have always liked this track a lot. McCoy was on a roll with many excellent albums for Milestone at the time. He added a choir of wordless vocals to the rest of the songs on this album, which were not doo wop or pop oriented. Some people did not like the backing vocals, so this album is not remembered so much today. Oddly, I think that the only other recordings which use vocals in this way are the recent Kamasi Washington albums, although Kamasi's choirs sing words sometimes.

 

Track 3 is unusual to me. It ends with what sounds like authentic Latin percussion, not jazz musicians trying to play Latin percussion, but real Latin percussionists. But the rest of the track does not sound much like a Latin jazz combination. So who could this be?

Track 4 is the real thing, some very hot Latin jazz. I don't know who it is, but I love it.

I know the artists and albums on Tracks 5, 6, 7. 8, 9, and 13. We appear to have some very similar tastes. I will hold off on identifying them until others have had a chance to comment.

Track 10 is so tasteful and deep. The musicians are not young. They have lived, and are telling a story as they play. I have no idea who this is, but I like it a lot.

Track 11 is a fairly standard mainstream piano trio track, so I wonder if there is some curve you are throwing  us that I am not picking up on.

Track 12 is a great trombone track. I like the bassist and drummer a lot. I will want to buy this after the Reveal.

This is a most enjoyable Blindfold Test, with many excellent tracks.

[CardinalJazzFan]

On 10/23/2018 at 2:17 PM, Milestones said:

I got a few of these when it was first posted, and I was close on #2 (knew it was Tyner) and #3 (knew it was Haden and thought it was Ornette).  

Track #2 is "Uptown" from Tyner's Inner Voices. 

Track #5 is "Hub-Tones" by Kamasi Washington.

Track #6 is "De Pois do Amor" from Wayne Shorter's Odyssey of Iska.

Track #7 is "Dreaming of the Master" by Art Ensemble of Chicago.

Track #9 is "Exaltation/Religious Experience" by Carla Bley Big Band.

Track #13 is "Shepp's Way" by Charlie Haden and Archie Shepp (The Golden Number)

 

 

All of those identifications are correct.

i like Track 6 as it is one of the times when Wayne Shorter did not compromise and also played accessible music which my mother likes to overhear. She does not know much about jazz.

Track 7 features Lester Bowie, the pride of my home town St. Louis.

[CardinalJazzFan]

On 10/24/2018 at 9:39 AM, Hot Ptah said:

I find Track 1 very interesting. The vocalist has the genuine old jazz sound and phrasing. I like her singing very much. The band is playing in the style of her era, but it sounds like a very contemporary recreation to me. The guitarist does not quite get the sound of the earlier era. This almost sounds to me like the soundtrack for the "Bird" film, in which Charlie Parker's solos were overdubbed over contemporary rhythm section playing.

 

Track 2 is the only non-vocal selection from McCoy Tyner's Milestone album, "Inner Voices". I have always liked this track a lot. McCoy was on a roll with many excellent albums for Milestone at the time. He added a choir of wordless vocals to the rest of the songs on this album, which were not doo wop or pop oriented. Some people did not like the backing vocals, so this album is not remembered so much today. Oddly, I think that the only other recordings which use vocals in this way are the recent Kamasi Washington albums, although Kamasi's choirs sing words sometimes.

 

Track 3 is unusual to me. It ends with what sounds like authentic Latin percussion, not jazz musicians trying to play Latin percussion, but real Latin percussionists. But the rest of the track does not sound much like a Latin jazz combination. So who could this be?

Track 4 is the real thing, some very hot Latin jazz. I don't know who it is, but I love it.

I know the artists and albums on Tracks 5, 6, 7. 8, 9, and 13. We appear to have some very similar tastes. I will hold off on identifying them until others have had a chance to comment.

Track 10 is so tasteful and deep. The musicians are not young. They have lived, and are telling a story as they play. I have no idea who this is, but I like it a lot.

Track 11 is a fairly standard mainstream piano trio track, so I wonder if there is some curve you are throwing  us that I am not picking up on.

Track 12 is a great trombone track. I like the bassist and drummer a lot. I will want to buy this after the Reveal.

This is a most enjoyable Blindfold Test, with many excellent tracks.

Those are interesting thoughts about Track 1. The musicians are contemporary. The vocalist has a history which fits somewhat into your thoughts and which does not fit somewhat too. 

I had not thought of the similarities between McCoy Tyner’s use of a vocal choir  on the album that Track 2 comes from, and Kamasi Washington’s recent uses of a vocal choir, 

I think that you will find the identifications for Tracks 3 and 4 to be very interesting.

i like your insights about Track 10. I agree with them. There is something about seasoned musicians playing with purpose, that younger technicians often do not get to.

[tkeith]

Late to the dance, here.  Sorry.  This one hit some strange areas, but also some areas that REALLY struck a note with me (especially where it wound up!).

Track 01 - Seems like a remake (sort of like the ones you see on YouTube of bands redoing music from the 20s and/or modern tunes in that style.  Accomplished musicians, but not sure how frequently I would spin this.

Track 02 - Now this is right in the happy zone.  Decidedly Tyner-esque feel.  Some touches of Charles Brackeen in the cry of that tenor, but the player seems more out of that Liebman set than CB.  That bass sound is off-putting.  I don't think it's the player, but the recording.  If not McCoy, somebody that owes a HUGE debt.  Possibly Franklin Kiermyer on drums?  I want to guess Jon Faddis on trumpet because of the heavy Dizzy influence, but seems to have more taste than JF, and his sound isn't so... well... ugly (never sold on JF).

Track 03 - Very little of this pocket of the genre reaches me (Peter Apfelbaum is a noted exception).  It just doesn't seem to... swing.  Love the growl of the bari against the more trebly sound of the guitar.  Underwhelmed by the improvisational segments.  This type of music should have a fun feel to it... to my ear, it's missing here.  It seems more forced than fun.

Track 04 - I like this one better than the last, but it suffers from a bit of the same issue, to my ear.  This stuff is brutal to read and difficult to play.  When the right band does it, though, it has the feel of fun that it's supposed to inspire.  This track comes closer, but still seems to miss by a bit.

Track 05 - This one is as cerebral/technical as either of the last two, but it works much better, IMO.  Can't put my finger on why, but I'm not focused on the counting so much (though that's definitely in there), it just seems to have a more lyrical underpinning, in spite of all that technique.  Mild, Woody-esque trumpet sound (flugel?); whatever, it works well against the tension build by the piano comping, without feeling frenetic.  Even when it gets loco, it's still within itself.  Reminds me of a Jimmy Owens album I have (and, of course, later Miles).  Not completely sold on the use of effects, but it still works.  For this style of tenor playing, I'm less bothered by the effects (in much the same way I appreciate Bob Berg's more commercial/smoothish recordings more than his straight-ahead endeavors).  The feel works, but it goes on too long, and when the tenor gets into the repetitive articulation, my interest wanes.  

Track 06 - A little too late-70s Weather Report-ish for my liking.  Definitely hear the Bitches Brew influence on this, but lacks the same fire.

Track 07 - Aw yeah!  That's the AEC, baby!  I think this is from one of the Dreaming Of The Masters sets, but can't recall which one.  Man, LOVE when these guys lock into that groove!  A little sleuthing tells me I have the right song but the wrong date.  It appears to be the last track from this.  Joseph Jarman is a baaaaaaaaaaad man.

Track 08 - This one is interesting.  I first, I was thinking a Billy Bang date, has that feel.  But, alas... no Billy.  I'm not sure I'm entirely sold, but this one WILL get another listen or two, for sure.  It's busy, but in an interesting way.  Compositionally, it's kind of Braxtonian, which ordinarily would lead me to click fast forward, but this one interests me.

Track 09 - I want to like this more than I do.  There's a lot here I SHOULD like, but it seems to be taking forever to unfold.  Has the feel of Old and New Dreams larger projects (like the one with Dewey Redman, Ballad of the Fallen), but never seems to quite develop to that point.  Not sure who this is, but I don't think it's that band.

Track 10 - Does Tad Dameron ever NOT work?  I don't have any guesses, but I completely love everything about this.

Track 11 - No clue, but it's a BFT... so... I'm guessing it's Gene Harris.  Maybe Ben Riley on drums?

Track 12 - Liking this loads.  A lot of thoughts as to who it might be, but keep talking myself out of all of them (David Harris, Frank Lacy).  This one works.  Has the feel of a Peter Warren date.

Track 13 - Well, there's Mr. Shepp, and unmistakable as only he can be.  This is older, because he's got a certain bite that is missing in his more recent recordings.  I'll guess this is around 1976.  I had a date from the late 80s (may still have it) with Richard Davis, but this has it ALL over that date.  Man!  I love Shepp!  

Thanks for the sounds!

[Milestones]

The first time around I suggested that #10 was in the Oscar Peterson-Joe Pass-Ray Brown vein, but I didn't think I was any of those guys.  Although this is well-played and has some real feeling, it does not show the distinctiveness of those players. But it sure does owe a lot to those players and that kind of style or concept.  

[JSngry]

10 = https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-wonderful-world-of-jazz-mw0000653899

[CardinalJazzFan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

10 = https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-wonderful-world-of-jazz-mw0000653899

That is correct. It is a bonus track only on the CD reissue.

4 hours ago, tkeith said:

Late to the dance, here.  Sorry.  This one hit some strange areas, but also some areas that REALLY struck a note with me (especially where it wound up!).

Track 01 - Seems like a remake (sort of like the ones you see on YouTube of bands redoing music from the 20s and/or modern tunes in that style.  Accomplished musicians, but not sure how frequently I would spin this.

Track 02 - Now this is right in the happy zone.  Decidedly Tyner-esque feel.  Some touches of Charles Brackeen in the cry of that tenor, but the player seems more out of that Liebman set than CB.  That bass sound is off-putting.  I don't think it's the player, but the recording.  If not McCoy, somebody that owes a HUGE debt.  Possibly Franklin Kiermyer on drums?  I want to guess Jon Faddis on trumpet because of the heavy Dizzy influence, but seems to have more taste than JF, and his sound isn't so... well... ugly (never sold on JF).

Track 03 - Very little of this pocket of the genre reaches me (Peter Apfelbaum is a noted exception).  It just doesn't seem to... swing.  Love the growl of the bari against the more trebly sound of the guitar.  Underwhelmed by the improvisational segments.  This type of music should have a fun feel to it... to my ear, it's missing here.  It seems more forced than fun.

Track 04 - I like this one better than the last, but it suffers from a bit of the same issue, to my ear.  This stuff is brutal to read and difficult to play.  When the right band does it, though, it has the feel of fun that it's supposed to inspire.  This track comes closer, but still seems to miss by a bit.

Track 05 - This one is as cerebral/technical as either of the last two, but it works much better, IMO.  Can't put my finger on why, but I'm not focused on the counting so much (though that's definitely in there), it just seems to have a more lyrical underpinning, in spite of all that technique.  Mild, Woody-esque trumpet sound (flugel?); whatever, it works well against the tension build by the piano comping, without feeling frenetic.  Even when it gets loco, it's still within itself.  Reminds me of a Jimmy Owens album I have (and, of course, later Miles).  Not completely sold on the use of effects, but it still works.  For this style of tenor playing, I'm less bothered by the effects (in much the same way I appreciate Bob Berg's more commercial/smoothish recordings more than his straight-ahead endeavors).  The feel works, but it goes on too long, and when the tenor gets into the repetitive articulation, my interest wanes.  

Track 06 - A little too late-70s Weather Report-ish for my liking.  Definitely hear the Bitches Brew influence on this, but lacks the same fire.

Track 07 - Aw yeah!  That's the AEC, baby!  I think this is from one of the Dreaming Of The Masters sets, but can't recall which one.  Man, LOVE when these guys lock into that groove!  A little sleuthing tells me I have the right song but the wrong date.  It appears to be the last track from this.  Joseph Jarman is a baaaaaaaaaaad man.

Track 08 - This one is interesting.  I first, I was thinking a Billy Bang date, has that feel.  But, alas... no Billy.  I'm not sure I'm entirely sold, but this one WILL get another listen or two, for sure.  It's busy, but in an interesting way.  Compositionally, it's kind of Braxtonian, which ordinarily would lead me to click fast forward, but this one interests me.

Track 09 - I want to like this more than I do.  There's a lot here I SHOULD like, but it seems to be taking forever to unfold.  Has the feel of Old and New Dreams larger projects (like the one with Dewey Redman, Ballad of the Fallen), but never seems to quite develop to that point.  Not sure who this is, but I don't think it's that band.

Track 10 - Does Tad Dameron ever NOT work?  I don't have any guesses, but I completely love everything about this.

Track 11 - No clue, but it's a BFT... so... I'm guessing it's Gene Harris.  Maybe Ben Riley on drums?

Track 12 - Liking this loads.  A lot of thoughts as to who it might be, but keep talking myself out of all of them (David Harris, Frank Lacy).  This one works.  Has the feel of a Peter Warren date.

Track 13 - Well, there's Mr. Shepp, and unmistakable as only he can be.  This is older, because he's got a certain bite that is missing in his more recent recordings.  I'll guess this is around 1976.  I had a date from the late 80s (may still have it) with Richard Davis, but this has it ALL over that date.  Man!  I love Shepp!  

Thanks for the sounds!

Track 2: you are correct on Jon Faddis as the trumpet soloist. As others have pointed out, it is McCoy Tyner. 

Very interesting comments on 3, 4 and 5. When you see the Reveal I think you may be surprised. 

Track 6: This has been identified as a 1971 solo album by Wayne Shorter, so your comments are apt.

Track 7: you have correctly identified it. Roscoe Mitchell is identified as the saxophone soloist in every source I have read.

Track 8: I think you may be surprised at who this is.

Track 9: very interesting to think of Ballad of the Fallen in relation to this.

Track 10: I agree with you about how good this is.

Track 11: not Gene Harris!

Track 12: don’t talk yourself out of all of them.

Track 13: It is Archie Shepp. If you don’t have this album, I think you would really enjoy all of it.

 

[Milestones]

So that's John Lewis on #10.  I have that record (cassette actually), but not with the bonus track. People may not believe me, but Oscar could play as delicately as John Lewis.  Jim Hall, then?  A fairly young Hall, and not as distinctive as he later became. 

 

[tkeith]

Forgot to follow the thread.  Mistaking Roscoe for Joseph -- SHAME on me.  That said, I usually find Joseph a bit more down home, so it's a complimentary assessment, as Roscoe doesn't always reach me.

[CardinalJazzFan]

I really appreciate all of the end of month comments after the earlier discussion was erased. I will post my Reveal tomorrow, on November 1.