Bird's plastic alto

[slide_advantage_redoux]

I saw this on Ebay. Obviously it isn't THE white plastic alto that Bird played, but is it the same brand? Grafton...sounds vaguely familiar, and the age of make is about right. Not a bad price for a collector.

Did Ornette also play a plastic alto?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...7310253248&rd=1

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Yes. Yes.

Mike

[Spontooneous]

A plastic alto from Bird's estate, purported to be the one he played at the Massey Hall concert, is at the American Jazz Museum in Kansas City.

But y'all probably knew that already.

I just wish I had a tape of the "dedication" held just after the alto got to KC. They flew Jackie McLean in to play it, in a pianoless trio with Max Roach and Richard Davis. What a trio! JayMac played mainly on his own alto, but he did play a few choruses on the plastic horn, even though it needed some repair. The tone he got on that thing was strikingly beautiful.

[sheldonm]

I saw this on Ebay. Obviously it isn't THE white plastic alto that Bird played, but is it the same brand? Grafton...sounds vaguely familiar, and the age of make is about right. Not a bad price for a collector.

Did Ornette also play a plastic alto?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...7310253248&rd=1

The horn Bird played is in the Jazz Museum in KC.

[Rooster_Ties]

A plastic alto from Bird's estate, purported to be the one he played at the Massey Hall concert, is at the American Jazz Museum in Kansas City.

But y'all probably knew that already.

I just wish I had a tape of the "dedication" held just after the alto got to KC. They flew Jackie McLean in to play it, in a pianoless trio with Max Roach and Richard Davis. What a trio! JayMac played mainly on his own alto, but he did play a few choruses on the plastic horn, even though it needed some repair. The tone he got on that thing was strikingly beautiful.

I briefly heard Paquito D'rivera play Bird's alto too (just two or three choruses), shortly after it was first purchased by the American Jazz Museum. This was at an outdoor event down at 18th & Vine here in KC, and the alto was still in it's original condition. Not every note would play (and that was quite a few that wouldn't play), but those that did - sounded marvelous.

I think that the event you heard, Spontoon, was maybe after the horn had been refurbished?? It was definitely not exactly in "playable" condition when I heard it.

Edited April 20, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[jazzbo]

This one on ebay also looks as if it is going to be expensive as it needs repadding. . . . Graftons if my memory of a bunch of webpages about them that I sifted through a few years ago is correct don't use standard pads.

[Spontooneous]

When JayMac played the plastic horn, it had just arrived from the auction. It needed work. He played about four choruses of blues on it, that's all, and went back to his other alto.

This was in '96 or '97, I think. The museum wasn't even open yet. The event was held in a hallway of the Lincoln Building, because the Gem Theater was being worked on too.

JayMac, Richard Davis and Max playing in a hallway! That's Kansas City.

[Rooster_Ties]

When I heard Paquito play it, I'm pretty sure the museum hadn't been built yet either (somebody with access to the KC-Star archives, check my math on that -- it was the year Paquito played down at what I think was the old "18th & Vine St. Jazz Fest".) I think it was before The Gem Theater had been rebuilt too.

I could have sworn they said that nobody else had played the horn in like 30 or 40 years, until Paquito did that one afternoon. There were about 200 people there -- it just sorta happened between other acts on the bill, with no advanced warning (if I remember right).

PS: Maybe might have even been the same year David Murray was down there, and if so - that would back up my incredibly vague memory that Andrew Cyrille backed up Paquito for those four choruses. (Cyrille played with Murray one year down at 18th & Vine. Whether it really was that same year, I really couldn't say.)

Edited April 20, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Spontooneous]

Tom, looks like you're right on just about all counts. A quick check of the archives turns up:

JayMac played the horn with Max and Richard on Oct. 15, 1994.

Paquito played it on Aug. 27, 1995, during the 18th and Vine Heritage Festival. The archives don't record who played with him, and I was at the festival (reviewing it!) but missed this part of it for some reason. Yes, Andrew Cyrille was there with David Murray.

This proves that my memory of the divorce years 1994-95 is porous indeed.

[chris olivarez]

Tom, looks like you're right on just about all counts. A quick check of the archives turns up:

JayMac played the horn with Max and Richard on Oct. 15, 1994.

Paquito played it on Aug. 27, 1995, during the 18th and Vine Heritage Festival. The archives don't record who played with him, and I was at the festival (reviewing it!) but missed this part of it for some reason. Yes, Andrew Cyrille was there with David Murray.

This proves that my memory of the divorce years 1994-95 is porous indeed.

From one who knows divorce can jumble up things but back to the buisness at hand. What is the difference in tone between the plastic and non plastic alto and which do you prefer?

[Spontooneous]

The plastic alto's sound is a little darker, but surprisingly warm. I think in the liner notes of "The Shape of Jazz to Come," Ornette said he liked it because he didn't hear "the ping of the metal." (Sorry, I'm away from home right now and can't check the quote.)

I wouldn't express a preference for one over the other. I like all the plastic alto recordings I know of -- they are few -- and I don't always like the tone of metal altos.

My crazy ears keep telling me that Bird is using a plastic alto on the Verve "Chi Chi"/"Confirmation" date, July 30, 1953. Can anybody confirm or deny?

[chris olivarez]

Thanks.

[bichos]

hello,

peter king played bird´s platic grafton on september 7, 1994 at the auction at christie´s in london. here´s the video:

http://tsujib.com/music-box/010814P-King01.htm

the audio portion of this event is also on bird´s eyes vol. 26 on philology.

keep boppin´

marcel