Jim R

Denis Brown's 1991 Vaughan discography also lists only "Don Costa Orchestra", NYC July 23/25/27, 1962; and the matrix numbers. The Mosaic discography offers the same info, and adds... "unknown string section, woodwinds and rhythm section". I sold my vinyl, or I would have had a look at the LP also (doubtful that it listed specific personnel, I would think).

J.D. Salinger k.d. lang Eldee Young

Jack Wild

Somehow, I don't think Roy Harte and Milt Holland would have gotten away with overdubbing on Buddy Rich.

Seems clear now that those two were the only "all new" tracks on P.P. TTK (or anybody else who may know), I'm just curious if the album credits indicate who was playing vibes and piano on those two tracks. Was Holland also a vibist? "The Kick" is primarily about the percussion, but there is more skill exhibited on "Misty" in terms of the vibes and piano. There is no other vibes player credited on either issue of the LP. Additionally, vibes is not listed among the (many) percussion instruments played by Holland and Harte, so I think it is safe to assume that those two tracks are by the Mastersounds. As both issues make a point of listing the other musicians, it's likely that they would have listed the players on those two tracks if they were different, but you never know. You mean as overdubbed Mastersounds recordings also? From what I know right now, I tend to doubt that. I have all or nearly all of the Mastersounds recordings, and there's no recording of "Misty" in their discography, that I'm aware of at least. But like I said before, I'm still wondering if there are unreleased tracks that might be found in a major jazz discography such as Lord, etc. "The Kick" is so short that I'd imagine it could have been a snippet from another recording with a different title, if in fact it was overdubbed. If that's the case, it might be hard to figure out what that other recording was. I know that there are a few Mastersounds tracks that appeared on W.P. various artists LP's... I don't own any of those anymore, but perhaps one of those tracks could have been used (neither "The Kick" nor "Misty" appear as Mastersounds recordings in the online W.P. discography I'm familiar with, btw: W.P. discography ) If those two tracks were not overdubbed like the others, it seems unlikely to me that the Mastersounds would have been involved. As I understand it, P.P. was done in 1961, three years after the Mastersounds recordings that were used for the overdubs. The Mastersounds had disbanded as a performing group in 1959, although they reunited in '60 for their Fantasy recordings. At any rate, if Harte and Holland got together with the Mastersounds to record those two tracks, why would they have done the other six tunes as overdubs? Not saying it isn't possible, just seems a little unlikely to me. Just my $.02. And I love a good mystery like this...

Seems clear now that those two were the only "all new" tracks on P.P. TTK (or anybody else who may know), I'm just curious if the album credits indicate who was playing vibes and piano on those two tracks. Was Holland also a vibist? "The Kick" is primarily about the percussion, but there is more skill exhibited on "Misty" in terms of the vibes and piano.

Oops, I'm realizing now that I mis-spoke about "In Concert" and "Ballads and Blues" never having been out on CD. I sort of doubted it as I was typing it. Somebody may have already told me about this in a previous thread, but I was reminded today during a search that these two were released as a 3-on-2 on Fresh Sound along with "The Mastersounds Play Horace Silver". I need to grab that...

You mean this one? Yeah, I guess El Records is a branch of Cherry Red Records (UK), which I had also never heard of until today. When I saw this rare item on their homepage, I knew this must be a pretty hip operation. Anybody bought from them?

Ah, okay, that explains it. That's not even that good of a scan, by the way. Believe me, she- er, I mean it... the cover, looks even better in person. Come to think of it, I think I need to hang that baby up on the wall one of these days. Forgive me for getting a little trivial here, but maybe somebody will find this interesting and/or of value. I just bought "The King And I" from iTunes, and one of the first things I noticed was that the entire recording was roughly 41 1/2 minutes long, as compared to 35 1/2 for the LP rip that I had previously in my library. In addition to a couple of the medleys being packaged together differently, I noticed that the tune "Epilogue" (which is a suite of sorts, including Buddy's composition "Lois Ann") is 9:52 in length, vs 8:28 for the LP rip version. The extra length is accounted for by a lovely extended intro (about 1 1/2 minutes long) on the version I bought in iTunes. To me, this is a complete "puzzlement" (pun intended). I know that the album was released on a CD (along with "Kismet") by the El Records label, which I've just gotten hip to. I know nothing about who may have engineered this digital transfer. Anyway, I'm happy to have the album with an extra 6 minutes of material.

Thanks for the info, TTK. Hard to believe you didn't hang onto this (if only for the cover! ) I still don't get the general lack of enthusiasm around here (I mean overall on the board) for The Mastersounds. To me, they chose good material, and swung like crazy. I think Buddy was an underrated player. I don't think history has been too kind to them. When I did a blog search for them, they were outnumbered by about 100 to 1 by links to recordings by "The New Mastersounds". I've been continuing to upgrade my recordings. Just noticed that "The King & I", "In Concert", and "Ballads and Blues" are all available in iTunes for $6 each. I took the plunge, as they all have excellent audio quality. Since the latter two have never been out on CD, I'm not sure how this works (clean transfers available in iTunes, that is). At any rate, I would recommend any of them. I also noticed that the two-on-one CD reissue of "The King & I" and "Kismet" is also availble, but only in the iTunes store in Ireland...

Mike, perhaps I should also ask... are you sure that the "Perfect Percussion" and "Percussion Unabridged" versions of NSN are the same? ===== Changing the subject slightly... although I do enjoy P.P. so far, I can't help but wonder how Buddy, Monk, et al felt about having their recordings used for this purpose... and nothing about "The Mastersounds" on the front cover. Are they mentioned on the back cover of either issue? I would certainly think and hope so...

Hmm... Mike, with all due respect, I think you're in error. I've downloaded "Perfect Percussion", and I've been comparing the tracks. I began with "enchantment", and found that the P.P. version is an overdubbed version of the original (the easiest way to tell was to compare Buddy's playing at the beginning of the solos section). The P.P. version was edited down to a much shorter length (Buddy's solo is cut off just after the 2:00 minute mark, and Harte and Holland solos are inserted), but the original recording was definitely used as the main structure. Then, I listened and compared the two versions of "Not Since Nineveh". In this case, not only was the original recording used as a basis for the overdubbing (again, it was obvious when I compared the solos), but the two versions are of identical length, at 7:27. The only doubt I have is whether you compared the P.P. version to a different version of "Not Since Nineveh" than the one I have. I'll be honest... I've lost track of exactly where mine (an MP3 file in my iTunes library) came from. I have the original "Kismet" LP, but I think my first LP transfer was a rip received from someone else's LP. In an ongoing effort to keep the best-sounding transers in my library, I may have at some point gotten a transfer from a CD release (not sure which one). I also have a separate MP3 (same version, but only 7:25 in length) from Wes' "Fingerpickin'" CD. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm open to the possibility that you have a different original take of NSN, but I'm not sure that one even exists. I haven't listened to the entire P.P. album yet, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all of the songs recorded by the Mastersounds (and I still have no idea about the origins of "The Kick" or "Misty") were overdubbed from the original versions.

My guess is that trying to compare may prove to be futile, in that all of the other Mastersounds tracks used may also have been alternate takes. But who knows... I'll see if I can find some online sources for comparison. (...I just realized that there's a share of the "Perfect Percussion" LP available on an online blog, so I'm going to check it out too. Thought maybe this LP was too obscure to be found online, but no. )

Okay, there's definitely more work to do in order to figure this whole thing out, but I did find the following under the Wes Montgomery listings at jazzdisco.org: The Mastersounds With Wes Montgomery Buddy Montgomery (vib) Richie Crabtree (p) Wes Montgomery (g) Monk Montgomery (fender b, ldr) Benny Barth (d) Forum Theatre, Los Angeles, CA, April 22, 1958 Overture: Not Since Nineveh World Pacific WP 1243 Overture: Olive Tree - Overture: Stranger In Paradise - Overture: And This Is My Beloved - Overture: Night Of My Nights - Overture: Sands Of Time - Olive Tree - Not Since Nineveh - Baubles, Bangles And Beads World Pacific WP 1243; Pacific Jazz PJ 17, PJ 10104; Blue Note BN-LA 531-H2 Fate World Pacific WP 1243 And This Is My Beloved - Stranger In Paradise World Pacific EP 4-79, WP 1243, JWC 510; Blue Note BN-LA 531-H2 * The Mastersounds - Kismet (World Pacific WP 1243, ST 1243, ST 1010) = The Mastersounds With Wes Montgomery - Kismet (Pacific Jazz PJ 10130, ST 20130) * The Montgomery Brothers - Wes, Buddy And Monk Montgomery (Pacific Jazz PJ 17) * Wes Montgomery - Easy Groove (Pacific Jazz PJ 10104, ST 20104) * Wes Montgomery - Beginnings (Blue Note BN-LA 531-H2) * Various Artists - Jazz West Coast, Vol. 4 (World Pacific JWC 510, ST 1009; Vogue (E) LAE 12177) * The Mastersounds - Kismet (World Pacific EP 4-79) ===== The Mastersounds With Wes Montgomery plus Roy Harte And Milt Holland Buddy Montgomery (vib) Richie Crabtree (p) Wes Montgomery (g) Monk Montgomery (fender b, ldr) Benny Barth (d) overdubs: Roy Harte, overdubs: Milt Holland (per) Forum Theatre, Los Angeles, CA, April 22, 1958 Not Since Nineveh World Pacific WP 1405 * The 44 Instruments Of Roy Harte And Milt Holland - Perfect Percussion (World Pacific WP 1405, ST 1405) No matrix numbers for the (apparently) two different takes of "Not Since Nineveh"... and no "alternate take" mentioned. And of course, this only pertains to one of the tracks in question. It would be great if somebody has a complete and proper discography (Bruyninckx, Lord... ?) that explains all this, especially (from my perspective) to indicate the existence of alternate takes from Mastersounds sessions; and to let us know the origins of "Misty" and "The Kick".

Thanks for checking, Mike. I see your point, but based on all I'm reading here, I'm still a bit puzzled. It seems to me that it's more than a coincidence that the only track featuring Wes is "Not Since Nineveh". Among the tracks that I listed as also appearing on Mastersounds LP's, "NSN" (from the "Kismet" LP) is the only one that also featured Wes. To me, this at least suggests that original Mastersounds tracks were overdubbed. I'm now wondering if these could have been Mastersounds alternate takes that were overdubbed. Anyway, I'm actually hoping that I'm wrong.

Lenin Lanin, Lester Ketty Lester

Thanks, Mike.

Since TTK's image url seems to have expired, here's an update:

I'm confused... I would have guessed that this is almost what this LP (and the Kimberley LP) are. Not "The Montgomery Brothers" exactly, but The Mastersounds; and not a unique single session, but a compilation of Mastersounds World Pac recordings* (Enchantment/Dance Of The Siamese Children/That Old Devil Moon//Not Since Ninevah/Moonrays/Getting To Know You) with overdubbed percussion. "The Kick" and "Misty" are the only tunes that are not part of the Mastersounds WP discography, afaik. Does anybody have more discographical data on these albums? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if the track(s) with Wes are older recordings with overdubbed percussion, I would have to disagree. I've never seen these listed separately in any discography of Wes. But maybe I'm missing something here. *Just to be thorough about it, here are the Mastersounds albums that contain the above titles: Enchantment, Moonray: The Mastersounds Play Horace Silver Dance Of The Siamese Children, Getting To Know You: The King And I That Old Devil Moon: Jazz Showcase Not Since Nineveh: Kismet

Highlight to reveal: Lancelot Link: Secret Chimp Secret Squirrel Secret Agent Man

Not yet, but that sounds tantalizing. I'll keep my eyes open. Looks like Ketty Lester recorded about a half dozen albums during the 60's, for which I'll also be keeping my eyes open.

I just latched onto this... ... and was pretty (very) impressed. Kind of a soul/jazz crossover of sorts. I had heard of her before, but never heard her sing, afaik. A quick search revealed to me that she did at least a couple of jazz albums, and eventually gave up singing (?) to pursue acting. Based on what I'm hearing on the above album, I find this both surprising and a little disappointing. I guess she was a pretty successful actress too, though. Any other soul (or jazz) recordings that I should know about? I'm aware of "Love Letters", but haven't heard it yet. Any thoughts or info are welcome...

The Custodian The Mailman Zeke from Cabin Creek

Gentle Ben Flipper Lassie

Don Rickles Daniel Sickles Joey 5 cents