kenny weir

The Moran 1949 stuff is spirited stuff that has the not insignificant asset of being NOT by American Music stalwarts Bunk Johnson and George Lewis. The final four tracks are wailing live goodies from a lakeside camp! I doubt either session is ANYTHING like the Harlem Hamfats, whose recordings/reissues I tried to get a handle on a few months back in terms of availability, price and so. It all seemed a bit confusing. There's another Morand session more recently available from American Music, shared with a band led by Paul Barbarin.

Two strands worth considering - although maybe a little later time-wise than you're seeking - are the New Orleans Revival and dixieland. Warning: There are plenty, oodles of traps for the unwary - but the best of it if simply great music. Time was when I thought dixieland a term of derision and contempt, but now I know better! I found it easy once I realised it had so much repertoire and approach in common with Bob Wills! The revival stuff wasn't quite it was purported to be, but who cares? Some of my faves: The Eddie Condon JSP box - fabulous but getting pricey. Maybe it's gone OOP? $60 new from Amazon sellers. Bud Freeman - Chicago/Austin High School Jazz In Hi-Fi (Mosaic) Tony Parenti and His New Orleanians (Jazzology) Art Hodes - The Jazz Records Story (Jazzology) The 6 & 7/8s String Band (American Music) This is some crazy stuff and part of the New Orleans tradition mostly now forgotten: The usual warhorses done on guitar, mandolin, steel and bass. From about '40s-late '50s. Bunk Johnson - King Of The Blues (American Music) George Lewis - Trios & Bands (American Music) Herb Morand - 1949 (American Music) George Lewis/Kid Thomas Ragtime Stompers (GHB) Crowned by those Penguins don'tcha know?! Source company for the Jazzology, GHB and American Music sets is here: http://www.jazzology.com/index.php Service is good, but you may be able to do better price-wise elsewhere. I find this stuff fascinating and there's times when nothing else does the job. But unless you're an complete anorak for it, there are limits. For the simple reason that the collective, overlapping repertoire of both scenes is relatively limited. Thankfully I only have When The Saints on a few discs, but have a screed of Chinatown and Darktown Strutters Ball, just for instance.

No, I reckon that's about it. Although, as Allen points, there are aspects that go back back further or that have links with other aspects of the broader west coast music scene that have not really been acknowledged or understood. My aim wasn't to present new discoveries - as you imply, that isn't really likely, or even possible. I just wanted to share my excitement at hearing some of this stuff for the first time. We all know about The Charlatans, for instance, but until the release of the above CD none but those there at the time had music to put with the legend. As with so many others styles, eras, genres, I feel pretty stoked about being able to get a broader understanding. Another example: Most of us are of an age to remember how the blues was pitched to us as a pure folk music. But now, of course, we all know that it was a lot more complex than that, that Big Bill Broonzy was a pop star of sorts etc etc. Also: Allen's That Devilin' Tune series. Thanks to everyone who chipped in!

Kenny, Let's Get Together was We Five's follow-up to You Were On My Mind. Late '64 as I recall, or was it late '65? Anyway, I've always considered their recording to be the original hit, not a cover. (Of course, it was written by that guy Dino from Quicksilver Messenger Service, so it may not have been the first recording, but to my knowledge it was the first that got radio airplay.) PS - OK, I've now read the Wikipedia article, and it says 1965. Yes of course you're right - the biggest chart action for the song came, IIRC, with the Youngbloods, but that was later. Thus we Five may likely had the first official version out there, although the Love Is The Song We Sing box kicks off with a Dino Valenti demo version that I presume predates all. FWIW, while some cynics may scoff at the lyrics, I have no problem at all with them - there's still a ton of unrepentant hippie in me. As Nick Lowe said: "What's wrong with etc etc." If you dismiss them as a joke, in my book you'd have to do the same with A Love Supreme. And when the tune is done in such a spiritually uplifting and inspiring fashion as We Five and HP Lovecraft, well I find it simply thrilling. Same goes with the Dead's Eyes Of The World - superficially sappy words, but they kept on with it for decades on end ... presumably because it really does mean something. (Never mind that it has a monster riff!)

Yes, also on my wishlist! Big influence on Fuller. Fascinating - and from the samples I've heard, also overlaps with another one of my True Loves: The whole chicano rock/swamp pop/gulf state sound of Freddy Fender, Bobby Charles, Johnnie Allen, Sir Doug, Jimmy Donley and so on.

I have the recent Thee Midnighters box on my Amazon wishlist. While wading through all the stuff mentioned above, I also spread wings/ears a bit, including buying the combo of the first two Electric Prunes albums. I was, of course, familiar with Too Much To Dream, but in my ignorance had always considered them an east coast outfit. Listening to them now, especially the brilliant second album Underground, I can hear it all - west coast surf influence, including Dick Dale, and especially in the Prunes' drumming. Allen, yes, I'm at least a little aware of these other influences, so thanks for the tips. The challenge is trying really get a grip on it all without wasting money on anorak-only reissues. I want to be across the topic at hand but also desire a high level of music quality. Surf music is something I'm a rank beginner at, but it appeals very much. Recent surf sessions have surprised me by pushing the same neuron buttons as great acid rock and jazz. Bobby Fuller is another interesting figure. I have the two single CD comps of his Texas pre-LA stuff on Norton, and there's some cool surf stuff in there. Unfortunately, the only best-of of his later stuff is missing the classic Never To Be Forgotten, and box set of his Mustang tracks is too expen$ive for me. And thinking of Fuller raises the spectre of Buddy Holly. Never been a fan but I think his influence is profound - from Fuller through to Roky Erickson and the Dead doing Not Fade Away. I wonder Bo Diddley thought about it all?

Thanks, Dave. I'd love to see that ... maybe one of my Melbourne DeadHead buddies has a copy. Generally, though, I find music docos full of too many talking heads, which also inevitably means songs are never played in full. And, yes, I find this behind the scenes sort of aspect much more compelling than the glib mass media perspective. I love reading accounts of how all these cats ended up in the same place - and the same head space - BEFORE the term hippie was even coined. Energy and crazy brilliance crackling through the air.

Who the hell you talkin' about? (Just kidding ... I'd have white hair if I ever let any of it grow ... and I find Mojo too "youth-oriented" for me!)

Now, some of the folk I’ll be talking about here were stars – maybe even rock stars of a sort – in this time and place. But they weren’t Rock Stars – not in the sense that the term has come to be understood. (No bad thing, of course …) Nor in the sense of how the San Francisco scene of the mid-’60s and onwards has come to be widely perceived. For that, there seems to be just one catchall outfit – Big Sister and the Grateful Quicksilver Airplane, with lead vocalists Grace Joplin and Janis Slick. No, in pursuing these sounds I was seeking, even if inadvertently, how it was before the scene became The Scene. I’ve been a DeadHead most of my life, and have at odd times followed Bay Area music trails to sometimes forensic depths. The city was my first stop on escaping NZ in 1977. At that time, despite many changes, there was still a strong hippie-era vibe going on, and many of the performers were still going ’round. Within a few days I had caught Stoneground, Bill Kirchen and the Moonlighters, the Holy Modal Rounders – and the Grateful Dead (middle night of the new Winterland ’77 box set). Never mind that I had to manually alter my Kiwi drivers license to make it appear that I had passed the legal drinking age! Even then, though, it was sometimes difficult to nail down exactly what had happened and how and who was involved. The British zines I was reading at the time – Zigzag (before it went punk), Omaha Rainbow and Dark Star, in particular – helped. As did the relatively lightweight but essential book San Francisco Nights: The Psychedelic Music Trip, 1965-1968. Since its publication in 1985, this book by Gene Sculatti and Davin Seay has stood the test of time. Sure, there have been numerous biographies of individual artists since then, but as far as I am aware, this little gem is the only book that addresses the scene and its genesis as a whole. And not just from the point of view of the big names and the Summer of Love – the authors set the scene way back to the Red Dog Saloon and the Beats and before. I came to my recent listening pursuits wanting to have a sense of what happened and how it was before the focus – across the land and around the world – was put solely on a handful of bands. The days when folks, ahem, tripped down to a local dancehall without really giving a rat’s arse about who was playing because it didn’t really matter. These days, as with so many other musical niches, it is much easier to really study and enjoy this particular musical scene in all its complexity. It’s not without it’s flaws, but there is much to celebrate in an age in which even the most obscure music and artists can be given their due. It’s an age of specialist books and reissues. That approach has its drawbacks, of course, but with an open mind, the rewards are rich. So … much kudos to the various labels and writers who have unearthed so much of this stuff and presented it in a way that shed lights on what actually went down. Kudos especially to Ace Records, its imprint Big Beat Records, its series Nuggets From The Golden State and writer/researcher Alec Palao. My interests are too diverse, my geographical situation too challenging and my parenthood status to important to pursue these things with such demented singlemindedness, but I have nothing but admiration for people who do. (There’s a few of them around, here, too of course!) (Since, ahem, inhaling the releases listed below, I have moved on to other things … the latest being the latest on Old Hat Records: Gastonia Gallop. Piedmont Textile Workers on Record 1927-1931? You bet! And I’m looking forward to the linked book, Lint Head Stomp, very muchly, too …) So … my psychedelic journey of the past year or so started in Wellington, NZ, last Christmas when my old buddy John and I hit one of the local stores. One the albums I bought was a band whose name I had long been familiar with but never heard (so many blind spots, so little time, only one lifetime!) HP Lovecraft – Dreams In The Witch House, The Complete Philips Recordings (Rev-Ola) Ahhh, the perils judging a book by its cover! Even if subconsciously, I’m sure I had certain expectations about this band (like so many others of the era, not from San Francisco originally). Expectations, I’m sure, that were coloured by the gothic horror exploits of their namesake. Dirge time, anyone? I couldn’t have been more wrong. Right from the first strains of Wayfaring Stranger I was sitting forward, ears and mind lapping up the snappy, shimmering guitars, the organ and – best of all – the soaring, ecstatic vocals. And so it went … through a stunning version of the hippie anthem Let’s Get Together, The Drifter, their “hit” The White Ship and more. Brilliant! The whole (self-titled) first album is a bona fide psych classic, and there’s much to love, too, on the more experimental and patchy second album and bonus tracks on this particular reissue. Next stop, as I followed my ears … We Five – There Stands The Door (Big Beat/Ace) I’d seen this recent release at Amazon, so when I saw it one of my local outlets, I snapped it up. I was well familiar, of course, with the their big hit, You Were On My Mind, although in this part of the world it’s the Brit Crispian St Peters version that got chart action at the time. I’ve always had a real soft spot for the best of the folk pop era. And, frankly, like all of us I’ve heard more the enough pretentious wankathons in the service of psychedelic music that I figure a little buttoned-down song craftsmanship could be a good thing … But I’d never in my own mind linked a band such as this – with its connections to the Kingston Trio and coffee house/college kid look – with acid trips and so on. But that’s the point – at this time just about everyone had the potential to take things in any direction. The key here is superb singer Bev Bivens – something of an enigma, her Wikipedia entry is much longer than for the band itself. With Bivens the star, the band’s vocals are every bit as good as the Lovecraft boys - soaring, spine-tingling stuff. For much of the time, the band is joined by jazz drummer John Chambers, who made it virtually a matter of We Six. This compilation is not a “complete” set. I think you can obtain the whole albums, but really the 22 tracks here should be enough for all but the obsessive. There’s a few duds and I could’ve lived without the two Coke jingle bits. The band, for me, is weakest at the more frantic tempos and when trying to rock out. At slow and medium pace, though, many of these tracks are simply folk pop masterpieces – You Let A Love Burn Out, Have You Heard, What Goin’ On?, Love Me Not Tomorrow, Poet, If I Were Alone, I Can Never Go Home Again, What Do I Do Now and more. Cover versions? Yes! Another delicious (and very different) Let’s Get Together, High Flying Bird (also on the HP Lovecraft set), Walk On By and even Ewan MacColl’s The First Time – all very good, brilliant or better. Next up … The Charlatans – The Amazing Charlatans (Big Beat/Ace) No Band better personifies the folly of applying the “great man” outlook to hippie-era San Francisco than The Charlatans. George Hunter, Dan Hicks, Mike Wilhelm and Co were as central to the early days end even eventual flowering as any of the Big Names that subsequently became international stars. Sadly, as has been endlessly documented, for a variety of reasons they missed the boat big-time. Until the release of this gem, their recorded legacy has been – as far as I am aware – a solitary single official album released after their peak and after key members had moved on. This puts things right – a ragtag collection almost schizoid in its various styles and with some less-than-essential moments, it is nonetheless essential for anyone interested in this era of SF music. One of the main strands is a funky sort good-time hokum jug band sound – think a slightly more deranged Jim Kweskin Jug Band. Into this bag fall the likes of Codine Blues, Alabama Bound (two versions here, along with a cool jingle based on it for “Groom N’ Clean”!), How Can I Miss You When You Won’t Go Away, Sweet Sue, Steppin’ In Society, Long Come A Viper, 32-20 and several more. As well, there are touches genuine psychedelia in the form of We’re Not On The Same Trip, Walkin’ and I Saw Her. The CD is rounded out by a handful of roughish demos that are from essential but interesting enough – they actually sound quite like bands like Green On Red, whose arrival was still more than a decade away. And they also give an insight into how and why Mike Wilhelm fitted so seamlessly into the Byrds/Beatles/Sire era Flamin’ Groovies. As a legacy for one of the key aggregations, this is one whole helluva lot better than nothing! Various artists – Sing me Rainbow, A Trident Anthology 1965-1967 (Big Beat/Ace) Having become quite besotted with We Five, this recent double CD was an obvious purchase. It has 44 tracks that run a wide but cohesive gamut from folk pop, sunshine pop, garage psych to jingle jangle and singer-songwriter stuff. I love it a lot. We Five are here, of course, along with other almost-notables of the time such as The Mystery Trend and Blackburn & Snow (see below in both cases). But just as good are forgotten outfits such as The Front Line, The San Franciscans, The Justice League, Thorinshield and The Tricycle. Fine stuff! Two highlights: The title track by The Sons Of Champlin. I have long been a Sons fans, even if the half dozen or albums I have of theirs are maddeningly inconsistent. This is something else – a big, blasting, thumping Spector-like production job and Bill Champlin in full-on blue-eyed Lou Rawls mode. Brilliant! The Sons’ of entry in the Big Beat/Nuggets From The Golden State series has thusly earned placement on my wishlist. John Stewart/Randy Steirling – Leave Me Alone. Stewart was just beginning to shake free of the Kingston Trio shtick when this was recorded, but you can clearly hear to hear his soon-to-be gruff, country-rocking sound waiting in the wings. Cool! Blackburn & Snow – Something Good For Your Head (Big Beat/Ace) In the process of figuring out all this stuff, I seem to have ended up reading a lot reviews by Richie Unterberger. And doubtless some time I’ll pick up his two books on the evolution of folk rock – if I hesitate, it’s mainly because of fears about the eventual (ka-ching!) cost of reading them! But like so many other ultra-prolific music writers, he does misread things … IMHO. He rates this duo highly - quite a ways above what he considers run-of-the-mill stuff found on Sing Me A Rainbow, for instance. I agree that there’s a lot here to like – hearing the coffee house sound becoming something more electric, focused and commercial in a way that seems to be an early taste of LA Fleetwood Mac, for instance. Jeff Blackburn and Sherry Snow have, too, something of the couple chemistry and magic of Gram and Emmy, but somehow I find that that, the tunes and their performances are sufficiently flawed to make the whole disc interesting rather than vital. This would be even more the case if the electric tracks were without the spunky, crackling guitar of Jerry McGee. The really interesting point here surrounds Snow and the milieu of which she was then part. Before hooking up with Blackburn, she hung out with David Frieberg, Paul Kantner and so on, and was even asked to join Jefferson Airplane before Grace Slick got the gig. As with Bev Bevins (We Five, above) and Jan Errico (The Mojo Men, below), it’s good remember that there was a time when this whole scene fluid and a long, long way from being set in the sort of stone that has Grace and Janis as the only leading ladies. The Mystery Trend – So Glad I Found You (Big Beat/Ace) Like The Charlatans, the Mystery Trend were right there from the very beginning; their legend is almost as venerated, their lack of success equally storied. Sadly, though, as interesting as this is … in the context of all the other music discussed here, they simply don’t seem to belong. I was already familiar, from quotes in the aforementioned book San Francisco Nights, of the scathing attitude of Ron Nagle towards the “jam bands” that did become success stories, his bitterness seemingly fuelled by having seen real “jam” masters at work at Jazz Workshop! There are more telling notes and quotes in the booklet to this CD … including references to the band being boozers surrounded by dopers, and Chet Helms’ assertion that The Trend lacked sufficient “missionary zeal”. That comment followed a Trend practice session attended by Helms and Big Brother. When a jam session was suggested, Nagle & Co were like: “No, we play everything a certain way.” I can sympathise, but on the basis of the arty pop music here – good as much of it is – the band should rightly be compared with the likes of The Beatles and even Split Enz. And if they should be celebrated for anything, it should be on the basis of being a quirky new wave band more than a decade before any such thing was even thought of. Various artists – The Berkeley EPs (Big Beat/Ace) For some reason, this Nuggets From The Golden State, while still in print (I think) is a little harder to find – especially at a good price. Eventually I got a good deal from AmazonUK and I’m glad about that. This is some fascinating stuff – genuine psychedelic artifacts from the earliest days of the San Francisco sound. It features Country Joe & The Fish (3 tracks), Frumious Bandersnatch (3), Mad River (3) and Notes From The Underground (7). The Fish sides are a revelation, even if the material (Bass Strings, Thing Called Love, Section 43) did end up in slightly modified versions on the band’s debut LP. Here’s a band delivering a fully-fledged acid-drenched style and sound in 1966, at which time the Grateful Dead still sounded pretty much like a cover version garage band. Stunning! The Frumious/Mad River cuts are pretty good, too, in terms of seminal acid rock, although not enough to make me real zealous about picking their individual albums. Interesting to note that on one track apiece from these three outfits you can hear embryonic raga rock, and in the case of The Fish’s Section 43, a hefty dose of spaghetti western as well! Notes From The Undergrounds? Anorak stuff! The Mojo Men – Not Too Old To Start Cryin’ (Big Beat/Ace) I’d never heard this outfit before picking this set up, and had barely heard of them at all. Supposedly this catches them somewhere between the garage sound of earlier stuff and more baroque recordings that followed. There are some weaker tracks among the 24 … but the opening title track is a killer, while I’ve Had It sounds like updated Bobby Fuller or Buddy Holly. All the usual stuff – garage rock, folk pop. Oddly enough, the main reference that keeps suggesting itself to me is another m’80s outfit: The Pandoras! The Great Society – Collector’s Item (Columbia) I’ve never been an Airplane fan; in fact, I find them pretty unlistenable. But this, along with the vocally superb Lovecraft and We Five sets, have got me curious about the Airplane’s first three albums. The 17 tracks found on this CD – recorded live at the Matrix in 1966 – were originally released on two separate CDs/LPs. Here they are in one tidy package – and, a bit like the Country Joe tracks lauded above, these, too, are a revelation. To me, at least! Grace Slick has been quoted about being disgusted with what she considered the lack of ambition and/or chops of her Great Society band mates before (?) she split for the Airplane. Well, look … the Great Society may have lacked the charisma and firepower of the Airplane, but frankly I prefer this stuff. The sound is outstanding, considering the source. And the sparseness of the lineup lends the music a quite gripping quality. There’s genuine acid rock (again, the sort of well-constructed concept with which the GD were only really beginning to grapple), raga rock, great slashing punkoid Darby Slick guitar and great tunes – including Somebody To Love and White Rabbit. Essential listening. Wow! Moby Grape – Vintage (Columbia) Having inhaled all of the above, I decided it was, ahem, high time to do something about perhaps the most glaring of my San Francisco psychedelia blind spots – Moby Grape. I couldn’t find an affordable copy of the whizz bang more recent Sundazed reissue of the band’s first album, so I settled for this – the first (and supposedly masterpiece) album, plus a bunch of material from subsequent albums spread over two discs. Huh? Sorry – I just don’t get it. Maybe Moby Grape will be one of those things that surprises me by smacking me around the head somewhere down the line. For the moment … nah. Gale Garnett And The Gentle Reign – An Audience With The Kings Of Wands/Sausalito Heliport (Rev-Ola) Here’s another one that Mr Unterberger gets way wrong … IMHO, even if I am heading off on a tangent here. Truth is, there is nothing about this music that aligns it with all else assessed here, even if the band was based in the area for a while. Like so many of the records of the time, this is a quite deliberate attempt to cash in on the psychedelic craze, but as such it has plenty of charm. Cheezy organ, some pretty cool tunes and arrangements, loopy and laughable lyrics, and … most importantly, THAT voice. Gale Garnett was the Kiwi gal who had a monster international hit with We’ll Sing In The Sunshine. Yes, that song. And, yes, I really love, that, too. The voice is just as gorgeous here. This reissue of the two albums has some dreadful tosh, but at its best there’s sunshine pop here that I’d rate right up there with the best of The Free Design or The Millenium. Just don’t expect acid tripping jams! Not everyone’s cup of tea, but I love it. The Beau Brummels – San Fran Sessions (Sundazed) Long before my latest foray into this world, I had been familiar with The Beau Brummels. So if I pay them and their profound influence undue disregard here, it is because this triple disc set (“rarities, demos, alternate takes, unissued performances”) is not the best way to enjoy the band. I got this as freebie, so it’s what I’ve got, so to speak. But the truth is, I’d listen to them a whole lot more if had a well put together “best of”. Various artists – Love Is The Song We Sing: San Francisco Nuggets 1965-1970 (Rhino) Finally, I confess to having taken the long way ’round with much of this music. I wouldn’t want to be without full albums by the likes of We Five and HP Lovecraft, but in truth this four-disc set no doubt does the job plenty well, covering almost everyone I’ve listed here and much, more. But for me, it’s too late – the duplications would drive me crazier! Maybe at the right price …

This past week I've listened at some length to Robert Johnson, Tommy Johnson, Bukka White, Big Joe Williams, Ishmon Bracey, Skip James and Son House. But they all seemed to fade away, to varying degrees, when I hauled out the Patton box yesterday. Wow ...

OMG the movie is indispensable. Just a really life-affirming masterpiece. Never get tired of it.

Cool ... I'm actually a little surprised that this set has taken off on Ebay. I've told my Melbourne GD buddies that this box is a bit of watershed for me - I'm no addict and have a bunch of other music interests. My buddies have hundreds and hundreds of shows. I have about 50-60. I'll buy the Road trips if they're super sexy. But I'll mostly bide my time for the heavyweights - I really dig how these boxes encompass so well eras and turning points. Fillmore 69, Soundtrack '74, Winterland 73, Winterland 77 - I reackon I could easily live with just those.

Just get the set at the best price you can, then worry about the bonus disc. It's OK, but if anything it's slightly less vital than other bonus discs. Whereas the box itself has that wonderful unrolling of complementary set lists that go with a three-night stand. I hate being wedged by this bonus disc policy. I was in a similar position with the Road Trips series - wanting them all, and thus buying them as they were released. Now that I've stopped doing that, I feel much betterer, and can with at least some objectivity look at purchasing them on their merits.

As well, this brings up the matter of definition ... yeah, I know there's a whole bunch of routine rock drummers with forest-like kits and so on. But trying to think positive, I gravitate towards brilliance from the '50s, '60s and '70s.

I'd for sure use another example, but hell yes ... although perhaps more than jazz, I'd say it's a matter of personal taste. For me: Bill Kreutzmann (Mickey Hart, too, but Bll's da man ...) Dennis Thompson Roger Hawkins Warren Storm Ed Cassidy Ziggy Modeliste Frank Bua Johnny Vidacovoch - but, hey, he's a jazzer, too. Goes with his (New Orleans) territory ...

From the Independent online: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&am...58613202873K124

Here's a quote from a post on an LATImes blogs that seems to confirm some of what I posted above: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blo...age/5/#comments

Henry has come out and admitted the ball "hit" his hand. Crap! The replays make it eloquently clear he deliberately "hit" the ball with his hand - twice! as well, it seems the Irish have legitimate beefs about FIFA seedings for the playoffs. Some things are inevitable in the washup: *Henry will live to regret this cheating - it will follow him the rest of his days. *Whatever success France has in South Africa will be profoundly tainted. *France and all Frenchmen will be profoundly aware of this, no matter what outwardly say. *Go Kiwis, go Socceroos! *Despite New Zealand's easy road to South Africa - through Oceania and playoffs against Bahrain - the Kiwis may yet enlist global from backing from the support-the-underdog mentality. The Irish may be right - that things are rigged in favour of the big teams and big countries. But IMHO the whole qualifying process is such a complex geopolitical exercise that there's always a minnow or two may slip through! Man - how about those Henry replays? Total humiliation! There's no room for the same sort of ambiguity behind which Maradona hid for so many years. Cheating, plain and simple. Another interesting upshot - Guus Hiddink couldn't get the Russians to South Africa, despite presumably limitless cash and his brilliance as a coach. He's mortal! (His mortality has become something to be seriously doubted here on the basis of his efforts with Oz team last time 'round.) - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/...24.html?via=rel

see below

Nice to read a well supported argument rather than the usual blanket assertions. I agree! I plead guilty to being prisoner of my baseless prejudices. Still don't like him. Mind you, never liked Genesis either, let alone his solo stuff. Mind you, never have dug anything even remotely English AND proggy. As well.

Have you guys checked out Sita Sings The Blues? Very cool movie - my son and I dug it! - that uses Hanshaw songs. According to wikipedia, though, there were issues with that usage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sita_Sings_the_Blues

Yep. As well, while he may have been a perfectly servicable journeyman-style drummer, the very mention of his name gets up my nose in a splendidly irrational manner. Hey, good luck to anyone who has a mega-hit with a pretty much note-for-note Tamla ripoff. But to have an attitude with it - the sort of thing Bev referred to earlier, plus I recall some particularly smug/arrogant interviews in print and visually - well, stuff that! The thing is, too, with rock music, it's not just the playing that is factor. There's the whole personality thing - that's a big factor, even if unquantifiable. Thus Bonham prolly scores big time, even if detest Zep. And Keith Moon is perfection in this regard AND a great drummer. And I don't even dig the Who!

That hack Collins and Blakey in the same breath? UH, OKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOK, WHATEVER ....

I prefer my mold on old figs.

Interesting ... I would guess, too, that basketball lends itself to this sort of manipulation. Really high number of fouls, which are much open to ref innterpretation than those in, say, MLB or NFL, and end-to-end scoring.