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felser
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Posts posted by felser
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i have heard some live bootleg stuff with junior cook in as the tenor player and i generally find him to be a pretty rote and boring player, but this stuff is pretty good. i wonder if hayes felt more comfortbale with cook....
i remember in the liner notes to little red's fantasy, shaw sort of disses hayes and cook. so was cook after mclean?
doesn't matter, i guess. in general anyone has to give hayes credit for taking part in this musical
Cook came before McLean. The way I think it worked was: Cook and Hayes co-led a group together, Shaw joined that group (the CD Ichi-Ban has that group), Cook left and was replaced by McLean, with Shaw becoming co-leader with Hayes.
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which one of u said u never warmed up to solid? solid is like the greatest thing ever. Ever
was it not issued until the 70s?
'Solid' was issued around '79-'80, nice enough set but I can understand why it sat in the can. Chewy-Chewy-Chew needs to listeny-listeny-listen to 'Idle Moments' , 'Green Street' ,'Matador', 'Grants First Stand', and 'Talkin About', and then report back to us on the relative and absolute merits of pre-Funky Grant Green.
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i think this is a good woody shaw disc. certainly better than stepping stones, imo.
very good disc, actually.
i wish someone like joe chambers was on drums rather than louis hayes, though.
i have to say hayes sounds pretty good on this one, despite my misgivings.
have you heard the swiss radio days woody shaw live CD from 1977?
it is with hayes and matthews and rene mclean and stafford james on bass-i don't really like what hayes does to the music. no room for everyone to breath.
and do you like the hayes lead stuff on muse from around this time with shaw? i like the real thing a lot. i would like to hear breath of life. but considering i don't really like hayes, this is a good disc and shaw sounds good.
but the AOW disc is definitely a good one, especially when paired with the iron men.
i really enjoy this version of "hello to the wind". it's nice shaw could bring in older school guys like foster and hampton (and even hayes) and have them adjust to his thing.
I like 'The Real Thing' and the Swiss Radio Days CD's a lot. 'Breath of Life' has much weaker personnel, and it affects the music, both the playing and the writing. Tex Allen and Gerald Hayes rather than Woody Shaw and Rene McLean. I like Hayes as a drummer much better than you do, but have never found him to be a strong leader on the sessions apart from the ones he co-led with Shaw. I know that Shaw expressed displeasure with the McLean/Mathews/James/Hayes group when he went to Columbia and had the group with Victor Lewis, et al, but I still think McLean/Mathews/James/Hayes was the best group he ever worked with, and that the 70's Muse sides are much stronger on balance than the Columbia's that came right after. The dissing of the Hayes et al group may have been publicity oriented, or may have had financial reasons. The 80's Muse sides I found a great disappointment, much too safe. I do like the live CD's on High Note quite a bit, and am still waiting for the excellent Elektra Musician sides to hit CD (anyone have any knowledge on why they still aren't out on CD? Or did I miss them somehow?).
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ithe sides at hand (with clark) are probably the highest watermark of grant's career. they'll become the centerpiece of your grant green collection.
Agreed, and ironically they were never even released back in the day. The Mosaic of this is what convinced me that Green was a great guitarist. 'Idle Moments' was also great, and I've been able to discover a number of other sessions which have come out on CD since which had been out of print on vinyl already when I started listening to jazz in the early 70's. If you buy the 2CD Green/Clark, and the single CDs 'Born to Be Blue' by Green and 'Blue & Sentimental' by Quebec, you have everything that was in the Mosaic box at a fraction of the cost. I remember complaining a bit to Mosaic when they released the box because the music would have easily fit onto three CD's, yet they stretched it out to four (and charged the extra $16 or whatever the cost per disc was back then). But I also complimented them on how great and eye-opening the music was.
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It's all subjective, and if you have the K2s, maybe just sit pretty or try the SACDs. I prefer the SACD that I have of one to all the other versions of that title that I've heard so far, next for me would be the XRCD minilp copy I have, then the K2, don't have an RVG of that particular title. I'm not as fond of the Hoffmans as others are.
So. . . if you have discretionary income to sample, sample some, but whichever is "better" no one here can tell you. I agree with Robert h. in this regard.
The packaging on the new box is spectacular. The CD's sound great to me, but I'm no expert on that topic.
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I really like this album, probably more than it deserves, but hey.
As is sometimes the case with people who focus on writing over playing, Massey was not a particularly fluent instrumentalist. But his playing is saturated with soul and personality, and he can't help but bring a unique perspective to his own compositions. Sometimes when you hear a composer play their own material, they focus more on the technical particulars, on bringing out certain constructional elements that others might not. But Massey does this with the "mood" elements of his pieces, and that's what I dig.
Brodie? Hey - this session was done in very early 1961, when Trane was just beginning to really bump it up, & Brodie shows himself to have already absorbed the lessons that Trane was teaching. Who else at that time was displaying such an absorption? That's another "interesting" aspect of this album for me. Our own Harold Z has known & worked w/Brodie, who by all accounts falls into the "interesting character" category, and whose discography is relatively sparse but also, for the most part, interesting. He's the main player on this side from a strictly "playing" perspective.
Watkins? Hey, I'm always down w/some Phantom!
The rhythm section is good enough, although in spots the finer points of the specificity of Massey's pieces slightly eludes them. But that's as much a function of limited rehearsal/preparation as it is anything, so no demerits on that from me.
Massey was in my estimation a major jazz composer. He didn't write throwaway blowing vehicles, he wrote compositions full of detail and, as mentioned above, specificity. Composers like that always appeal to me, because if improvisation is the lifeblood of jazz, composition is the body through which it most fluidly flows (and I apply that principle to totally improvisational music as well, because the most effective improvisational music for me is that which displays an empathy with compositional principles). None of his tunes have really become "jazz standards" but that proves nothing other than that they're too involved at some level to lend themselves to casual jamming, which is a good thing afaic. His music is anything but casual.
Massey's cumulative work is long overdue for a rediscovery/reevaluation. There's a lot of meat there, and these are hungry days.
I have little of substance I can add to the excellent commentary above by JSngry, but want to add another thumbs-up for this CD. I also always have considered Massey a major jazz composer, and therefore assumed, before hearing this, that he must not be able to play very well at all, and that wasn't at all the case. I was fairly shocked at how well he and Brodie (who I am otherwise unfamiliar with) played on this when I got it 10-15 years ago.
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Speaking of RVGs: is it just my local Borders locations that have stopped stocking the new ones, or is it everywhere? The clerk I spoke to said the ordering is done centrally somewhere, and the last two batches never appeared at any of my 3 area Borders. That's got to bite into sales for BN.
With this most recent batch of RVG's (the September batch), this marked the first time the Fort Worth area Borders didn't carry them. They have also slimmed down their jazz racks as well. Sad.
The brick and mortars are crumbling here in King of Prussia (Philly suburb which is home of the shopping mall in the USA with the most stores - 420). Sam Goody is closed down. Tower Records drastically downsized and eliminated 75% of their jazz inventory a few years ago, and is now closing. I used to spend $1000 a year there, haven't spent $50 total there the last two years, since they eliminated both the deep inventory and the really good January/February sales. Two of the three FYE's are shut down. Borders is now the best game in town inventorywise, but is too pricey for my blood (and I avoid the mall, though I'm glad it pays my property taxes for me - I remind myself of that when I sit in mall traffic coming home from work at night, especially during the holiday season). The only indy brick and mortar in town closed about five years ago. Fifteen minutes away on the Main Line, Plastic Fantastic, the famous used store in Ardmore, closed down a few years ago. Borders in Rosemont drastically reduced their shelf space. Repo Records in Bryn Mawr, a funky used place which grossly underpriced a lot of good used CD's which weren't alternative rock, closed down in the last few months. None of this affects me much, as I've been doing almost everything online in recent years, but it's an interesting sign o' the times. Only the big box stores (Best Buy and Circuit City) seem to be holding on at this point here, and my understanding is that they actually run their CD departments at zero profit to draw people into their stores.
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ICPN: 0094637423028 Andrew Hill - Compulsion (4 tracks)
Now there's some great news!
I'll second that!!
Since PAX was in the last round of Conns, I think that means the entire original Andrew Hill Mosaic set has been reissued on CD domestically, with the only exception being that last date with Sam Rivers. And I'll bet that one ends up being a Conn within the next year or three too.
Yippee!!! (Not for myself so much -- I've already got the Mosaic -- but I'm thrilled all of Hill's material is becoming available again, for other people to be able to purchase.)
You can go $100+ to the good by selling the Mosaic and buying the individual titles!
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Or, we all love Dexter so much that we already have all of his CDs.
That would be my excuse, though the title offered here ain't exactly primo Dexter.
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The Adderley is the only one I believe that has not been on CD ; odd that the Page and Auld sides would be out , but not the Adderley,
It's also been odd how slow a lot of the Adderley stuff on Capitol has been to get to CD. You would think he'd be a relatively big seller.
I don't know if you're referring to Cannonball in the Land of Hi-Fi, but that's an EmArcy (now Universal) album, not a Capitol one.
Well aware of that, which is why I said ALSO been odd about the Capitols.
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The Adderley is the only one I believe that has not been on CD ; odd that the Page and Auld sides would be out , but not the Adderley,
It's also been odd how slow a lot of the Adderley stuff on Capitol has been to get to CD. You would think he'd be a relatively big seller.
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“Hello to the Wind” was written by Joe Chambers (Eugene McDaniels wrote the lyrics, though you will have to visit Bobby Hutcherson’s Now to hear).
My bad. 'Now' was where I first heard "Hello To The Wind", and I had always just thought of it, "Slow Change", and "Now" as being McDaniels songs without even checking. 'Now' is another album I've been thinking of for AOTW - it's a unique experience with the Hutcherson/Land group, the McDaniels lyrics and vocals, and the great writing on "Hello To The Wind" and "Slow Change".
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'Live At The Berliner Jazztage' is certainly my favorite Woody Shaw recording, and a work I appreciate as much as any work in all of music. The group that for that performance was billed as the Woody Shaw Concert Ensemble. The Shaw/Hayes working quintet (Woody Shaw, Rene McLean, Ronnie Mathews, Stafford James, Louis Hayes - to me, this was the group that best realized Shaw's music) was joined by two heavyweights - Slide Hampton and Frank Foster. But what resulted was not the expected all-star blowing session, but rather Hampton and Foster were carefully integrated into a series of beautifully arranged compositions. The set starts off with a monumental 17 minute version of 'Hello To The Wind', the great Eugene McDaniels song. This cut, as does the entire set, combines the fire and the dignity of jazz at a level rarely encountered. Scott Yanow writes in AMG that "The obscure originals are given lengthy treatment (Joe Chambers's "Hello to the Wind" is nearly 17 minutes long) and yet there are no slow moments. The solos are uniformly creative and often quite explorative." Shaw is quoted in the original liner notes as saying that the group was "quite proud of each other that night". Excellent performances of Larry Young's "Obsequious" and Mathews' "Jean Marie" are followed by the amazing set closer, Rene McLean's incendiary "In The Land of the Blacks(Bilad As Sudan)". The ensemble and the soloists are blazing. The occasion was momentous, and what makes this session so transcendent has not faded at all in the intervening 30 years. This session is available on the 32Jazz Shaw release 'Two More Pieces of the Puzzle', and you bypass it at your own risk.
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PM sent on the following:
Don Bagley Quintet -- Jazz on the Rocks (Blue Moon)
Conte Candoli/Lee Morgan -- Double or Nothin' (Fresh Sound)
Sonny Criss/Tommy Turk/The Six -- An Evening of Jazz (Verve/Japan, POCJ-2600)
Kahil El'Zabar's Ritual Trio -- Big Cliff (Delmark)
Frank Foster -- Soul Outing! (Prestige)
Phil Nimmons -- The Canadian Scene/Nimmons 'N' Nine
Baden Powell -- Tristeza on Guitar (MPS/Japan)
Clark Terry Combo & Sextet -- Free and Oozy (Blue Moon) Ben Webster et al
Mary Lou Williams -- I made you Paris
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I have always found the Impulse's to each have their moments, and each have their dross. 'Black Unity' was the most consistent for me. While I'm as horrified in general as the next guy at the idea of jazz "best of" collections, it may actually make sense for Sanders. There's a good one on him called 'You-ve Got To Have Freedom' which collects a lot of the highlights and leaves behind a lot of stuff best left behind. My favorite Sanders is actually 'Africa', which came out on Timeless in the late 80's. A great rhythm section (Hicks/Lundy/Muhammad) and career highlights in the versions of his "You've Got To Have Freedom" and Hicks' beautiful "After The Morning". I also like 'Crescent With Love' quite a bit. Both of these are consistently strong, unlike his other work. Another Sanders highlight is the album he did with Art Davis on Soul Note, 'Life'. Lousy recording quality, but amazing music. It is also a quarter with Hicks (loved his playing in general) and Muhammad.
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If you ever catch me saying that The Buckinghams were "major artists", then you can smack me down.
But I love the Buckinghams (really).! "Kind of a Drag", "Susan", "Foreign Policy", some great stuff! Amazing production by Guerco before he moved onto Chicago Transit Authority. Major artists, no, no staying power once Guerco moved on. Tina Brooks also wasn't a "major" artist either for the same reasons. Were the Buckinghams thoroughly enjoyable for me on the same level as a lot of the music we enshrine here, absolutely!
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I agree, too. A very nice album. Surprising actually that the band was able to get even one good album out, as it was recorded for MCA.
MG
Wasn't MCA yet at that point, I don't think. I think they were on Kapp, which got eaten up in the MCA buyout of the Decca labels. Michel kindly sent me a CD-R of the original album. I have to say that I'll be shelving it in my Rock section rather than my Jazz section. But I'll also be shelving it in my active play shelves. It's really delightful. Best equivalent is Brian Auger and Trinity/Oblivion Express, I would say. Organ player doesn't have Auger's chops, but it's all very tasteful and enjoyable. A cross between Santana and Booker T. and the MG's, as mentioned earlier, isn't a bad description. But think Gregg Rollie on organ and Steve Cropper on guitar, rather than Booker T. Jones and Carlos Santana. Grooving organ/guitar instrumentals of some well-chosen hits of the day and some good jazz tunes. A really nice, fun listen. Not a vocal in sight. Thankfully, no "sweeteners" added (no strings, horns, synths, or background singers), so it has a good, solid, organic feel, like the Booker T, and the MG's did.
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Freddie Hubbard on 'Red Clay' and some of the other CTI's (the sell out came on Columbia). Stanley Turrentine on 'Sugar' (the sell out came on Fantasy).Who else notably went "electric" in arguably substantive ways during the 70's?? By "substabative" – I mean ways that partially transformed their musical vision – in ways that weren't just about "selling out" – or trying to be more "popular".
Felser -- what makes you think that either of these guys went "electric in arguably substantive ways that partially transformed their musical vision" on these albums? Sugar and Red Clay are basically "jazz with a few electric instruments", not so different from what was done before. Maybe we just disagree on the meaning of "substantive" or "transformed".
Guy
Fair enough comments on the CTI stuff, though I think the rhythms also changed compared to what they did on Blue Note and Atlantic previously, but they weren't massive departures. Altohough it should probably be remembered that 70's Miles was an evolution starting all the way back at 'Nefertiti' and 'Miles in the Sky' rather than a sudden shift. Adam's comments on 'Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy' is also correct, I just overlooked that one.
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Lee Morgan on his last album. Chick Corea on 'Return to Forever' and 'Light as a Feather' and 'Where Have I Known You Before' (the sell-out came later, and he has intermittently bought back in when he feels like it). Freddie Hubbard on 'Red Clay' and some of the other CTI's (the sell out came on Columbia). Stanley Turrentine on 'Sugar' (the sell out came on Fantasy). Les McCann on 'Invitation to Openness' and 'Layers'.Who else notably went "electric" in arguably substantive ways during the 70's?? By "substabative" – I mean ways that partially transformed their musical vision – in ways that weren't just about "selling out" – or trying to be more "popular".
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The Byrds, who were undoubtedly inf. by Brits but synthesized that w/Am. folk, a genius songwriter in Gene Clark, a truly inspired eccentric in David Crosby, an intermittently balls-out 'Trane inspired guitarist in Jim (Roger) McGuinn AND Gary Usher behind the board... this is gonna prob piss everyone off but I rate the highest Byrds as innovative as Miles in that '65-'66 period. (Byrds fell off HARD, as is the general pop/rock wont, Miles peaked high a # of times after).
I'm with you on the Byrds. The seemingly unlimited potential of Rock peaked at "Eight Miles High" and "I See You". THAT's a group who was so far ahead of their time, no one has caught up yet 40 years later, and no one even dares take up the quest. They were never the same group after Gene Clark left. There was magic in the McGuinn/Clark/Crosby trio.
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did Ornette also go off the rails in the 70's?? (Or, rather -- in your opinion, did Ornette also make mostly poor choices in the 70's??)
Big time to me. I can't hear that music at all. I can do 70's Miles just fine, though I'll always prefer 50's and 60's Miles. 80's Miles was the sell-out to me, at least in the studio (Other board members have stated that his live concerts remained worthwhile). 70's Ornette obviously wasn't a sell-out, but strikes me (then and now) as totally bizarre. The critics rhapsodized about harmolodics or whatever he called it, and I tried and tried, but it never broke through in the least to me. It was a breakdown in the rhythm to me. His son on drums in the 60's was another breakdown to me. Give me LaFaro/Higgins, Haden/Blackwell, or Garrison/Jones anytime. But again, Ornette has the right to go where he wants, and I have the right to follow or not. But if I can't hear it, I can't hear it. I have the same problem with the M-base stuff.
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i think i have heard too many versions of "in a silent way" and "doctor honora causa", especially, which i find annoying at this point almost.
you like this album better than "i sing the body electric"? i don't. the first WR album isn't so great. i would put this solo effort around that level if not a step above.
'I Sing The Body Electric' is my favorite Weather Report album, followed by 'Sweetnighter'. I rank this right with 'I Sing The Body Electric' at least. This album was the first time I heard 'Dpctpr Honora Causa' and, believe it or not, 'Silent Way' (I got this album real early on from the Norristown Library, before I had even heard the Miles album), so it sits in a different historical spot for me, shaped me for this type of music. Maybe if I had come to it late, it would be a lesser experience for me.
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Hubbard doesn't play on the Trane set
Yes he does.
So he does. I missed him on that 12/26/58 session on CD 6. Thanks Chuck, my bad! The Trane box is still the better deal.
LF: Silver 'n Brass (CD preferable)
in Offering and Looking For...
Posted
Don't think that one has ever come out on CD. A lot of that late period (70's) Blue Note stuff is MIA on CD, mostly justifiable, though this album was pretty good.