Larry Kart

For further evidence of the underlying principle I'm trying to bring to the surface here, I'll add that while I can recall enjoying Fred Allen's radio show as a child, when I recently heard a vintage, representative Allen broadcast, I could hardly believe how lame it was. Minus the original context of broad cultural molasses that made vintage Allen's lemony-ness seems refreshing, there was little left but lack of energy and sheer laziness.

Wow -- "Vic and Sade." That show is a nice example of what I mean. Utterly unfamiliar with it while it was still going on (I believe there was a slight possible overlap between it and my pre-school self, but that didn't occur), I knew nothing of "Vic and Sade," not even the name, until Studs Terkel on his own radio show (BTW I mostly can't stand Studs) did an hour-long interview some time in the late 1970s or early '80s with the widow of "Vic and Sade"'s creator, Paul Rhymer. In the course of this, maybe two whole "Vic and Sade" episodes were played, and listening to this in the car, I almost drove off the road I was laughing so hard. And I was not, it would seem, laughing out of any sense of "those were the days" nostalgia -- because again the show was new to me, and besides the days it arguably spoke from to some considerable degree were days I'd never experienced anyhow, let alone felt sentimental about. Instead, "Vic and Sade" felt wholly "new" to me in aesthetic terms and seemed likely to become, for me, close to permanent -- its soft-shoe surrealism might be compared to that of another arguably nostalgia-free product of American popular art of the 20th Century, George Herriman's "Krazy Kat" strip. Of course, many fans of "Vic and Sade," and "Krazy Kat" too, are prey to nostalgia, but I'm saying that's what really good about "Vic and Sade," and "Krazy Kat" and (fill in the blank -- the list isn't endless but doesn't stop there) is basically nostalgia-free. "Kukla, Fran, Ollie" -- probably not so much, but that was something I did take in as a child.

Jim, with all due respect I think you need to step away for a while from this "the 20th century is over now" thing. Literally true in terms of the calendar, but in terms of particular arts and artists, I think we need to put away this broad brush. Some things of undoubted value that arose in the 20th Century had their day and are now, as they say, "historical"; other things that arose then are still full of vigor and immediate meaning. It's not as though everyone agreed to draw a curtain on things on Jan. 1, 2000. For instance, I've been reading or re-reading some Joseph Conrad lately. Born in 1857, Conrad wrote, among many other things: 1895 Almayer's Folly 1896 An Outcast of the Islands 1897 The Nigger of the 'Narcissus' 1899 Heart of Darkness 1900 Lord Jim 1902 Typhoon 1904 Nostromo 1907 The Secret Agent 1909 The Secret Sharer 1911 Under Western Eyes 1913 Chance 1915 Victory 1917 The Shadow Line 1919 The Arrow of Gold 1920 The Rescue Are we -- now, or back in say, 1965 -- going to tell the author of, say, "Under Western Eyes," "Hey, get out of here, 19th-Century Man." Or are we, conversely, going to ignore the ways in which the tremendous power of, say, "Nostromo" or "The Secret Agent" depends on their author having had experiences that it would be difficult to imagine anyone having had who was born much later than Conrad was, even though though those experiences would virtually explode in works that are very much part of the century in which they actually were written. Let's not pretend that the rhythms of art and artists in time are simpler than they are.

From that chapter in Stark's "Ask the Parrot": "The parrot saw things in black and white. He knew about this place of his, that it was very strong, and that he was very strong within it, and that whenever he thought he might be hungry, there was food in his tray.... "There wasn't much in this world, but not much was needed. With his strong talons and his strong beak, gripping to the metal bars, a taste like inside your brain on his tongue from the bars, he could move around and control everything he needed.... "Sometimes the parrot slept. He slept on the swinging bar, talons gripping tight, large button eyes closed, coarse green feathers slightly ruffled upward and forward. Whe he woke, he always knew he had been sleeping, and that, now he was awake, it was time to eat and shit, drink and piss, so he did. "Now it was now...." To come to write that last sentence -- mmm. Toward the end of this chapter, the parrot, never having spoken before because his owner doesn't speak much, encounters a stranger who does speak: "The parrot had never spoken. The parrot had never been in a social situation where it seemed the right thing to do was speak. The main Creature who lived with him, in his cage outside the cage, almost never spoke. It had never occurred to the parrot to speak. "But now this Creature, some unknown foreign Creature, was yelling the same sounds over and over again, and it came to the parrot that he could make these sounds himself. It might be satisfying to make these sounds. He and the Creature could make these sounds together." He does, or they do, and stuff happens. Also, I really like "in a social situation."

Here they all are: The Hunter The Man With the Getaway Face The Outfit The Mourner The Score The Jugger The Seventh The Handle The Rare Coin Score The Green Eagle Score The Black Ice Score The Sour Lemon Score Deadly Edge Slayground Plunder Squad Butcher's Moon Comeback Backflash Flashfire Firebreak Breakout Nobody Runs Forever Ask the Parrot I've read every damn one (all about a very professional and very convincing professional criminal named Parker -- no first name) and liked them all, found many astonishing. The main thing is that Westlake took a long break between "Butcher's Moon" (1974) and "Comeback" (1997). The later Parkers are at best almost fiendish in their writerly intensity, as though Westlake-Stark were setting traps for himself and Parker to see if they could be wriggled out of. In "Ask The Parrot," for example, there is a chapter that is quite convincingly told from the point of view of the bird. Also, Parker's world in the later books is of course not quite the same world of the earlier books; society changes, and a pro like Parker has to adjust. This is done quite convincingly, though a nagging little voice tells me that the Parker of "The Hunter" (I believe it's said in passing that he's a young World War II vet) would be too old by the time of the later books to do what he does in them. The first two Parkers, and probably the next one, are essentially books that set Parker into place and get him up and running -- without them, there are important things about him that you won't have experienced directly (though they will be alluded to), but later books in the first bunch probably are better. "The Seventh" IIRC is particularly brilliant, as are "Slayground" and "Butcher's Moon" (which are linked IIRC). All of the second bunch are topnotch. Among the things I love about the Stark books is that much of the "poetry" is in the plotting. Time and again, you're about 10 or so pages from the end and you can't believe this is going to be wrapped up, and yet that's what happens. Interestingly, perhaps, Michael Connolly does just the opposite; you're maybe 60 or even 90 pages from the end, and it all seems to be over, but it isn't. I like Connolly, but Westlake-Stark is the better writer by a large margain IMO. On the other hand, I don't care for most of the stuff that Westlake does under his own name. Crime plus humor and/or whimsy is not my thing.

Peter, I definitely like some of the composers on your "branching out" list -- Berwald, Chausson, Lekeu, Stenhammar, have what I feel is a bit of a weak spot for Stanford (I think because I like Brahms so much), have a delightful disc of flute and piano music by Kuhlau, and the flavor of Field is unique, though I can't take much of it at a sitting. Heard some nice Svendson too. The others I don't care for or are just names to me -- and Holter and Kiel I've never heard of before. So it would seem we can talk. Another question, though, if I may: What's the most modern (not chronologically but by your own standard of what that term means stylistically) piece of music that you've viscerally liked or come to enjoy? Larry, That's a tough question that would take a fair amount of time to research. What is the reason for the question? Taste is a personal thing. I recall that not too long ago a prominent poster indicated that he did not have any real affection for opera. He had given it a try, but it was not something that grabbed him. Different strokes ... I'm just curious, certain that you're a genuine music lover with a good-sized sense of curiosity, about where your stylistic cut-off point is. What I'm trying to do is get as specific a picture as possible of what a particular genuine, curious music lover doesn't like about (painting with a broad brush now) modern music. So if you've heard, say, some Stravinsky that pleased you but have no taste for any Berg, that info, plus your previously mentioned likes, would suggest or hint at one direction, while if you liked some Berg but no Stravinsky (or neither of those but only, say, some Nielsen or whomever), that would suggest or hint at something else. Again, I'm not trying to nag at you in particular or at anyone else. What I'm hoping to do is be a little more precise, think more precisely and specifically myself, about a subject -- the relationship between listeners/concert-goers and modern music -- that's often dealt with in terms of injury, conspiracy, utopian thinking, propaganda, dislike of being propagandized, etc. Certainly no need to answer, though, if you don't want to.

Larry, I think you told that story on some other thread (forget where, but it's buried inside an ulta-long thread). IIRC, it concerned Higgins submitting a book review when he had clearly not read the book in question. A nasty exchange ensued. You're right, T.D., I did tell that story a while ago, though I don't recall on what thread. Probably there's not much left in my brain that I haven't posted here by now.

EDC, Remind me to tell you a strange and somewhat chilling story about George V. Higgins. Not tonight, not enough time -- maybe tomorrow. In any case, I would say that a much better example, in a related area, would be Donald Westlake when he's writing as Richard Stark.

I hate it when the dagger happens.

Dr. Phil will be talking about his little hospital visit to Britney on CBS-TV's "The Early Show" tomorrow morning. No surprise, but there's something so sublimely whorish about this whole episode (on all sides), that you'd think the celebrity culture would just freakin' explode.

Probably from 'Very Saxy."

If you include radio, the obvious answer is Terri Gross. Just ask EDC.

And I forgot to mention the arms half-raised in a gesture of ... what? Ecstasy? Submission? Surrender?

For me it's not so much the "rack" itself as the totality of Marilyn dressed (or undressed) that way -- on the beach, with the wet sand, and the waves, and her kissy-face expression. All that seductiveness and sadness in one package.

Happy birthday, Nate. :party: And Bright Moments, I have to say that the photo you attach to every post you make remains astonishing every time I see it.

That's it. I demand that Randy be banned immediately! Done.

It's nice how Dr. Phil works "my meeting with," "leaves me convinced more than ever," "before my arrival," "I entered the room," "We visited," "I walked with her," and "I am very concerned for her" into those three sentences.

Britney Spears Hospitalized The world is my emergency ward.

Correction: It's Martin Boykan's "Elegy," not his "Echoes of Petrarch," that seems to me to be close to the level of "Pierrot Lunaire." Just listened to Boykan's String Quartet No. 2. Something is askew when a composer as good as this is so little known. Excerpts from "Elegy" can be heard here: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...style=classical

Peter, I definitely like some of the composers on your "branching out" list -- Berwald, Chausson, Lekeu, Stenhammar, have what I feel is a bit of a weak spot for Stanford (I think because I like Brahms so much), have a delightful disc of flute and piano music by Kuhlau, and the flavor of Field is unique, though I can't take much of it at a sitting. Heard some nice Svendson too. The others I don't care for or are just names to me -- and Holter and Kiel I've never heard of before. So it would seem we can talk. Another question, though, if I may: What's the most modern (not chronologically but by your own standard of what that term means stylistically) piece of music that you've viscerally liked or come to enjoy?

Here's my Berkshire modern American classical music CRI list, with some from New World too. Hard to believe that I found the time to listen to all this stuff, but I did: Spies, Claudio {b.1925}: 3 Songs on Poems by May Swenson; Animula Vagula, Blandula; 5 Sonnet-Settings {Christine Whittlesey, soprano et al.}; Impromptu for Piano; 'Viopiacem' Duo for Viola & Keyboard Instruments {Samuel Rhodes & Robert Miller}; 4 Dadivas; Bagatelle {Alan Feinberg, piano}; Beisammen {Matthew Sullivan & Brian Greene, oboes & English horns}; Insieme {Elizabeth McNutt, flute & Andrew May, violin}; Dylan Thomas' Lament and a Complementary Envoi. (Nathaniel Watson, baritone & Margaret Kampmeier, piano. Total time: 76'08') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 718 | BRO Code: 116940 | Label: CRI (An austere serialist but a real musician. Not unlike late Stravinsky in some respects -- Spies and Igor were friends.) Lomon, Ruth: Songs of Remembrance. (Jayne West, soprano. Pamela Dellal, mezzo. Frank Kelley, tenor. Donald Boothman, baritone. Laura Ahlbeck, oboe & English horn. Donald Berman, piano. Total time: 61'31') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 887 | BRO Code: 116874 | Label: CRI Cory, Eleanor {b.1943}: 'Visions' for 6 Players {St. Luke's Chamber Ensemble}; 'Of Mere Being' for Chorus & Brass Quintet {William Purvis [French horn] et al. w.NY Virtuoso Singers/ Rosenbaum}; 'Play Within a Play' for Piano; 'Interviews' for Viola & Piano {Louise Schulman & Margaret Kampmeier}; 'Bouquet' for 8 Players. (NY New Music Ensemble/ Milarsky. Total time: 65'54') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 885 | BRO Code: 116870 | Label: CRI Cooper, Paul {1926-1996}- 'Complete Music for Solo Piano': Cycles; 4 Intermezzi; Sonata; Frescoes; Sinfonia. (John Hendrickson) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 776 | BRO Code: 116770 | Label: CRI Cooper, Paul {b.1926}: Verses for Violin & Viola; Canons d'Amour; String Quartets 5 & 6. (Shepherd Quartet) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 687 | BRO Code: 116690 | Label: CRI Jones, Samuel {b.1935}: Let Us Now Praise Famous Men; Elegy. Paul Cooper {b.1926}, Symphony #4 {all w.Houston Symph./ Samuel Jones}; Violin Concerto #2. (Ronald Patterson w.Monte Carlo Phil./ Lawrence Foster. Total time: 69'44') Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 579 | BRO Code: 116288 | Label: CRI Genre: Symphonies (Jones's symphony is crap; Cooper's Violin Concerto is an ecstatic gem.) Macbride, David: 3 Dances for String Quartet {Aurora Quartet}; 'Chartres' for Solo Piano. (Kathleen Supove. Total time: 60'57') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 640 | BRO Code: 116451 | Label: CRI Ogdon, Will {b.1921}: 3 Piano Pieces; 3 Baritone Songs; 2 Kechwa Songs; 3 Trifles for Cello & Piano; By the Isar; 6 Small Trios; 5 Preludes; Serenade #1 for Wind Quintet; 2 Capriccios for Piano; Variation Suite for Violin & Viola; 6 Small Trios. (Members of SONOR Ensemble with guest artists. Total time: 71'30') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 763 | BRO Code: 116769 | Label: CRI (Ogdon is a good bit like Spies.) Boykan, Martin: String Quartet #2 {Pro Arte Quartet}; City of Gold {Fenwick Smith, flute}; Piano Trio #2 {Cyrus Stevens [violin], Michael Curry [cello] & Donald Berman [piano]}; Echoes of Petrarch. (Auros Group for New Music) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 841 | BRO Code: 116592 | Label: CRI Boykan, Martin: String Quartet #4 {Lydian Quartet}; Elegy {Jane Bryden, soprano w.The Brandeis Contemporary Chamber Players/ Hoose}; Epithalamion. (James Maddalena, baritone. Nancy Cirillo, violin. Virginia Crumb, harp. Total time: 62'22') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 786 | BRO Code: 116512 | Label: CRI Boykan, Martin {b.1931}: Sonata for Violin & Piano {w.Cyrus Stevens, violin}; 'A Packet for Susan' for Voice & Piano {w.Pamela Dellal, mezzo}; 'Flume' for Clarinet & Piano {w.Ian Greitser, clarinet} {all w.Donald Berman, piano}; String Quartet #1. (The Contemporary Quartet. Total time: 68'06') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 897 | BRO Code: 116456 | Label: CRI (Boykan is not unlike Andew Imbrie, if that helps. Muscular/gestural, often soulful -- sounds like he might have been a Sessions student, as Imbrie was, but I don't think so. Boykan's Echoes of Petrach is close to the level of Pierrot Lunaire.) Babbitt, Allegro Penseroso. Michael Finnissy, North American Spirituals. Jason Eckardt, Echoes' White Veil. Jeff Nichols, Chelsea Square. (Marilyn Nonken, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 877 | BRO Code: 116573 | Label: CRI (Nonken can play her ass off! I know enough of Babbitt and Finnissy to be sure of that -- the Finnissy was written for her. Would like to hear more from the other two composers.) Anderson, Allen {b.1951}: String Quartet {Lydian Quartet}; Solfeggietti; Drawn from Life. (Aleck Karis, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 727 | BRO Code: 116540 | Label: CRI Del Tredici {b.1937}: I Hear an Army {Phyllis Bryn-Julson, soprano w.Composers Quartet}; Night Conjure-Verse {Benita Valente, soprano & Mary Burgess, mezzo w.Marlboro Festival Players/ composer}; Syzygy {Bryn-Julson w.Festival Chamber Orch./ Dufallo}; Scherzo for Piano 4-Hands. (Robert Helps & composer. Total time: 61'04') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 689 | BRO Code: 116438 | Label: CRI Del Tredici, Song Cycles: Miz Inez Sez {w.Hila Plitmann, soprano}; 3 Baritone Songs {w.Chris Pedro Trakas, baritone}; Brother {w.John Kelly, vocalist}. (All w.composer, piano. Total time: 74'40') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 878 | BRO Code: 116189 | Label: CRI (Early Del Tredici, first disc, late on the second. He's supposed to be the Return To Romanticism guy (e.g. "Final Alice"), but he's just amazingly nuts -- and covered all over with musicality.) Wyner, Yehudi {b.1929}: Memorial Music I & II for Soprano & 3 Flutes; 'Intermedio'- Lyric Ballet for Soprano & Strings {all w.Susan Davenny Wyner, soprano}; Serenade for 7 Instruments {Boston Symphony Chamber Players/ composer}; Concert Duo for Violin & Piano {Matthew Raimondi & composer}; 3 Short Fantasies {Robert Miller, piano}; Passage I. (Musical Elements Ensemble/ Daniel Asia. Total time: 74'24') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: BULGARIA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 701 | BRO Code: 116399 | Label: CRI Fine, Vivian {b.1913}: Concertante for Piano & Orch. {Reiko Honsho w.Japan Phil./ Watanabe}; Missa Brevis for 4 Celli and Taped Voice {w.Jan DeGaetani, mezzo}; Momenti for Piano Solo {Lionel Nowak}; Quartet for Brass {David Jolley, horn et al.}; Sinfonia & Fugato for Solo Piano {Robert Helps}; Alcestis. (Imperial Philharmonic of Tokyo/ Strickland. Total time: 75'15') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 692 | BRO Code: 116398 | Label: CRI (A strong Session student.) Fine, Vivian {b.1913}: Concertante for Piano & Orch. {Reiko Honsho w.Japan Phil./ Watanabe}; Missa Brevis for 4 Celli and Taped Voice {w.Jan DeGaetani, mezzo}; Momenti for Piano Solo {Lionel Nowak}; Quartet for Brass {David Jolley, horn et al.}; Sinfonia & Fugato for Solo Piano {Robert Helps}; Alcestis. (Imperial Philharmonic of Tokyo/ Strickland. Total time: 75'15') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 692 | BRO Code: 116398 | Label: CRI Genre: Piano Concerti Mamlok, Ursula {b.1928}: 'Panta Rhei' for Violin, Cello & Piano {B.Hudson, C.Finkel & A.Karis}; Variations for Solo Flute {S.Baron}; When Summer Sang {Da Capo Chamber Players}; Stray Birds {P.Bryn-Julson, soprano w.H.Sollberger, flute & F.Sherry, cello}; Sextet. (Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 891 | BRO Code: 116364 | Label: CRI Mamlok, Ursula: String Quartet #2 {Cassatt Quartet}; 'Girasol' for Flute, Clarinet, Violin, Viola, Cello & Piano; 'Polarities' for Flute, Violin, Cello & Piano {Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf}; 'Der Andreas Garten' for Soprano, Flute & Harp {Jubal Trio}; 'Constellations' for Orchestra. (Seattle Symph./ Schwarz) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 806 | BRO Code: 116334 | Label: CRI Mamlok, Ursula: String Quartet #2 {Cassatt Quartet}; 'Girasol' for Flute, Clarinet, Violin, Viola, Cello & Piano; 'Polarities' for Flute, Violin, Cello & Piano {Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf}; 'Der Andreas Garten' for Soprano, Flute & Harp {Jubal Trio}; 'Constellations' for Orchestra. (Seattle Symph./ Schwarz) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 806 | BRO Code: 116334 | Label: CRI (Another strong Sessions student -- he seemed to work well with woman. See also Miriam Gideon below.) Gideon, Miriam: Suite for Clarinet & Piano {S.Berkowitz & E.Rodgers}; Eclogue for Flute & Piano {P.Spencer & D.Oei} + Asstd. Songs (Cassolas, Sharp et al.) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: 80393-2 | BRO Code: 99452 | Label: NEW WORLD Gideon, Miriam {1906-1996}- 'Music for Voice & Ensemble': Sonnets from Shakespeare {W.Sharp, baritone w.Prism Orch./ Black}; Rhymes from the Hill {J.De Gaetani, mezzo w.D.Gilbert cond.}; The Hound of Heaven {W.Metcalf, baritone w.Jahoda cond.}; Nocturnes {J.Raskin, soprano w.DeMain cond.}; Resounding Lyre; Wing'd Hour {w.C.Cassolas, tenor}; Spirit Above the Dust. (E.Bonazzi, mezzo w.Contemporary Chamber Ensemble/ Weisberg. Total time: 73'29') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 782 | BRO Code: 116251 | Label: CRI Gideon, Miriam {1906-1996}- 'Music for Voice & Ensemble': Sonnets from Shakespeare {W.Sharp, baritone w.Prism Orch./ Black}; Rhymes from the Hill {J.De Gaetani, mezzo w.D.Gilbert cond.}; The Hound of Heaven {W.Metcalf, baritone w.Jahoda cond.}; Nocturnes {J.Raskin, soprano w.DeMain cond.}; Resounding Lyre; Wing'd Hour {w.C.Cassolas, tenor}; Spirit Above the Dust. (E.Bonazzi, mezzo w.Contemporary Chamber Ensemble/ Weisberg. Total time: 73'29') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 782 | BRO Code: 116251 | Label: CRI Cone, Edward T. {b.1917}: Duo for Violin & Cello; 'New Weather'- 4 Songs for Soprano & Piano to Poems by Paul Muldoon; Serenade for Flute, Violin, Viola & Cello; 'Philomela'- 3 Nightingale Songs for Soprano, Flute, Viola & Piano. (Mimmi Fulmer {soprano}, Jayn Rosenfeld {flute}, Cyrus Stevens {violin}, Scott Rawls {viola} et al. Total time: 60'21') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 737 | BRO Code: 116389 | Label: CRI (The great critic-musicologist was a tough-delicate, somewhat Stravinsky-ian composer, if Stravinsky had grown up on the coast of New England.) Aitken, H. {b.1924}: Piano Fantasy {Gary Kirkpatrick, piano}; Cantatas #'s 1 {on Elizabethan themes}, 3 {'From this White Island' on poems by Willis Barnstone} {both w. Charles Bressler, tenor}, 4 {on poems by Antonio Machado. With Jean Hakes, soprano} & 6 {'Remembering' on poems by Rilke. With Jan Opalach, bass-baritone}. (w.chamber ensemble or piano accompanying. Total time: 74'22') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 774 | BRO Code: 116377 | Label: CRI Boatwright, Howard {b.1918}: Sonata for Clarinet & Piano {Michael Webster & Barry Snyder}; 12 Pieces for Solo Violin {composer performing}; String Quartet #2. (Manhattan String Quartet. Total time: 63'27') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 775 | BRO Code: 116367 | Label: CRI (Helen Boatwright's husband -- she of the great Ives songs recording. Not unlike Ed Cone in style, but somehow you can tell Boatwright is from the mid-South. Modern though it is, his violin writing has a mountain fiddle tune feel at times.) Kohs, Ellis B. {b.1916}- Music for Keyboards and Strings: Passacaglia for Organ & Strings K.11 {Maija Lehtonen w.Grasbeck cond.}; Chamber Concerto for Viola & String Nonet K.28 {Ferenc Molnar w.Robert Mann, Robert Hillyer et al.}; Toccata K.25 {Lionel Salter, harpsichord}; String Quartet #2 {Gabor Rejto et al.}; Sonatina for Violin & Piano K.26. (Eudice Shapiro & Albert Dominguez. Total time: 71'40') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Mono | Code: CD 795 | BRO Code: 116254 | Label: CRI Wyner, Yehudi {b.1929}: Memorial Music I & II for Soprano & 3 Flutes; 'Intermedio'- Lyric Ballet for Soprano & Strings {all w.Susan Davenny Wyner, soprano}; Serenade for 7 Instruments {Boston Symphony Chamber Players/ composer}; Concert Duo for Violin & Piano {Matthew Raimondi & composer}; 3 Short Fantasies {Robert Miller, piano}; Passage I. (Musical Elements Ensemble/ Daniel Asia. Total time: 74'24') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: BULGARIA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 701 | BRO Code: 116399 | Label: CRI Martino, Donald {b.1931}: A Set for Marimba; 'Parisonatina Al'Dodecafonia' for Solo Cello; 12 Preludes for Piano Solo; 'Canzone e Tarantella sul nome Petrassi' for Clarinet & Cello; A Jazz Set. (The Core Ensemble) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80518-2 | BRO Code: 62294 | Label: NEW WORLD Martino {b.1931}, A Set for Clarinet {M.Webster}; Quodlibets for Flute {S.Baron}; Trio for Violin, Clarinet & Piano {P.Zukofsky, A.Bloom & G.Kalish}; Fantasy-Variations for Violin {P.Zukofsky}; Concerto for Wind Quintet {Contemporary Chamber Ensemble of Rutgers University/ Weisberg}; Strata for Bass Clarinet. (Dennis Smylie. Total time: 65'36') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 693 | BRO Code: 116284 | Label: CRI Genre: Contemporary Shapero, Piano Sonatas 1-3. Fine, Music for Piano. Ruggles, Evocations: 4 Chants for Piano. Menotti, Ricercare and Toccata on a Theme from 'The Old Maid and the Thief' (Michael Boriskin, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80402-2 | BRO Code: 26166 | Label: NEW WORLD Imbrie, Chamber Music: Three Piece Suite for Harp & Piano; Five Roethke Songs {S.Narucki, soprano w.M.Goldray, piano}; Campion Songs {w.J.Peterson, soprano}; To a Traveler; Dream Sequence for Chamber Ensemble. (Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80441-2 | BRO Code: 20336 | Label: NEW WORLD Kahn, Erich Itor: 3 Piano Bagatelles; Piano Inventions #'s 4,7 & 8; Rhapsodie for Violin & Piano {J.Prelle & T.Gunther}; 3 Chansons Populaires; 4 Pcs.on Medieval German Poems {C.Gayer, sop. w.F.Maus, piano}; 'Nenia Judaeis Qui Hac Aetate Perierunt' ('In Memory of the Jews Who Perished in the Holocaust' w.J.Sessions, cello & Gunther, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 563 | BRO Code: 11334 | Label: CRI Genre: Contemporary Barati {1913-1996}, Cello Concerto {Bernard Michelin w.London Phil./ composer}; Harpsichord Quartet {Baroque Chamber Players of Indiana}; Chamber Concerto. (Philadelphia Orch./ Ormandy) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 794 | BRO Code: 116176 | Label: CRI. Finney, Ross Lee- Piano Music: Fantasy {1939}; Sonata #3 {1942}; Sonata Quasi una Fantasia {1961}; Narrative in Retrospect {1984}. (Martha Braden, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 560 | BRO Code: 116287 | Label: CRI Genre: Solo Piano{s} Kohs, Ellis B. {b.1916}- Music for Keyboards and Strings: Passacaglia for Organ & Strings K.11 {Maija Lehtonen w.Grasbeck cond.}; Chamber Concerto for Viola & String Nonet K.28 {Ferenc Molnar w.Robert Mann, Robert Hillyer et al.}; Toccata K.25 {Lionel Salter, harpsichord}; String Quartet #2 {Gabor Rejto et al.}; Sonatina for Violin & Piano K.26. (Eudice Shapiro & Albert Dominguez. Total time: 71'40') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Mono | Code: CD 795 | BRO Code: 116254 | Label: CRI Genre: Chamber Music Karchin, Louis: Galactic Folds {The New York New Music Ensemble/ Milarsky}; Songs of Distance & Light {Andrea Cawelti, soprano w.Players of the Washington Square Contemporary Music Society/ Lubman}; Ricercare {Curtis Macomber, violin}; Sonata for Cello & Piano. (Fred Sherry & James Winn) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 739 | BRO Code: 116244 | Label: CRI Karchin, Louis {b.1951}: 'American Visions'- 2 Songs on Yevtushenko Poems {Da Capo Chamber Players/ composer}; Rustic Dances; 'Cascades' for Solo Piano; Sonata da Camera for Violin & Piano; 'A Way Separate…'; String Quartet #2. (Washington Square Contemporary Music Society Players) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80583-2 | BRO Code: 110551 | Label: NEW WORLD Genre: Chamber Music (Karchin's instrumental music I mostly like -- Wourinen-influenced but more inherently musical (he has a good ear), and with some interesting, organic nudges toward minimalism and overt tonality at times. His writing for voice, though, I can't take -- not a single "natural" word accent and with no compensating abstract "whoosh." And those Yevtushenko texts! For some reason, I see EDC looking for Yevtushenko with a BB gun.) Shifrin, Seymour {1926-1979}: Three Pieces for Orchestra {London Sinfonietta/ Monod}; String Quartet #4 {Fine Arts Quartet}; Serenade for Five Instruments. (Melvin Kaplan {oboe}, Charles Russo {clarinet}, Robert Cecil {horn}, Ynez Lynch {viola} & Harriet Wingreen {piano}. Total time: 66'28') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 793 | BRO Code: 116236 | Label: CRI

I said that "I already had a lot of CRI things..." -- bought over the years at regular prices. I should then buy none when they're remaindered at Berkshire?

Oops -- that's Ursula Mamlok (not Marmalok) and Allen (not Allan) Anderson.

BTW, the process of deciding on your own what is wheat and what is chaff in a big bundle of new music is kind of educational -- at the very least, you learn something about yourself. Also, a lot of those CRI recordings I got are still at Berkshire. If anyone wants, I'll post a list of the ones I l liked (with occasional remarks/warnings).

This whole business is so charged-up, gummed-up, you name it, with familiar or unexamined personal experiences and predelictions (and I include my own here) and also from the rhetorical interventions of professional provokers like Bernard Holland and (probably more dangerous) shadow boxers like Alex Ross, that I'd like to ask Peter a specific question and then offer some testimony. The question is, Can you give us a list of the works that were on some or all of those "Moral Mandate" programs chamber music concerts? I ask for two reasons, and feeling fairly sure that some "This is good for you," Moral Mandate-thinking was going on behind the scenes there: (1) I want to know the kind and range of music on those programs that you did like (and of course I'll be reacting to this part of your answer based on my own musical experiences and prejudices, but I won't do that covertly), and (2) I want to know what were the modern pieces on those programs that you didn't like. Then, putting (1 and (2) together, and provided I myself know any of those modern pieces you didn't like, I can begin to figure out where you and I stand here -- and by "you" I don't necessarily mean (or only mean) you as an individual but you as a representative genuine music lover of one sort, in relation to myself as one of those of probably another sort, and then both of us (as types and individuals) in relation to what all has been and is going in the worlds of music-making of our time. My testimony is that I've been listening to a whole lot of so-called modern music (for me "modern" begins or began with the Second Viennese School and Stravinsky) with curiosity and pleasure since my early teens, and a big part of that pleasure is bound up with the curiosity factor. That is, once I picked up the scent of what seemed to be to be going here -- and "here" is much broader than the bit I've already mentioned, and by no means (I hope) am I an uncritical consumer of all that has happened here, or by now "there" -- I was fascinated both the the sheer musical quality of what seemed to me to be top notch, but also by the newness of what in all this actually was new, by the opportunities it seemed I was being given to encounter new forms of language in the process of their formation. I'm wired, or came to be wired, such that I found that very exciting almost in itself. I guess I'd either built the "Moral Mandate" into myself or turned it into a Pleasure Principle. And in an attempt to keep that particular sort of pleasure going for me, I'll often take a flier when I see one. For instance, a year or so ago, I noticed that Berkshire was selling almost all the CRI catalog (CRI being the subsidized modern American classical music label) for IIRC $3.99 a disc. I already had a lot of CRI things, but a lot I didn't know, so I sifted through as much as I could, listening to sound samples when possible, and ordered and then listened to a whole lot of stuff by my standards -- maybe 30 or 40 discs in all. And while maybe five of those were duds, the process of discovering what, say, Louis Karchin, or Allan Anderson, or Ruth Loman, or Ursula Marmalok etc., etc. were specifically up to (and just about every one of these composers was specifically up to something) was an enlightening and mostly delightful experience for me. Was it different from the experience I would have had if I had spent that much time relistening to marvelous works from the past that already were familiar to me? Sure. Does that mean I would have been better off either way? Can't be sure -- and of course, I listen to what I think are marvelous works from the past that already are familiar to me whenever I feel like it. But what I'm trying to put some flesh on here are the ways and the reasons that some people are pretty naturally drawn after the new in music, or at least the unfamiliar -- and this in name of what for them seems to be pleasure.