JSngry

You mean like to make Spaghetti-Os with franks? I'm all for it!

You think Miles had been hanging out and playing with Brazilians when he did "My Ship" or "The Meaning of the Blues" with Gil? Otherwise, I think we're in agreement about the actual cross-pollination that went on later...Duke Pearson, quite as it's maybe kept, was mixing it up pretty nicely in the late 60s. But re: Miles & Elis, I've no doubt that there was some mutual admiration, and I've no doubt that Miles & Hermeto would've made a delightfully out-there match, but I'm not going to be so bold as to say that Miles' core ballad style had Brazilian influence as one of it's basic founding principles...that math just ain't right. Beides, it really doesn't matter...the number very real cross-pollinatroy delights that exixts as time went by are all there to had a splendid time with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c6kfDZjYbE&feature=related

Watch the highlight shows for Jack Wilson's 4-3 DP against the Rangers this evening...pretty damn skillful.

Got to keep the customer satisfied...

So he kept a gig rather than be without one, and he found ways to not get fired even though some people wanted to fire him? This guy wasn't just a genius, he knew how to work the room, at least the one that cut him his check (such as it was...). Talent isn't just a gift, it's also a bargaining chip. In the right hands, of course. But a bargaining chip isn't any good unless you know how to bargain, and you can't bargain successfully without knowing your audience.

No, putting steak sauce on a good steak is fucking stupid. Putting ketchup on a hot dog is like putting mustard on a hot dog, except it's ketchup and not mustard. Either way, it's still a hot dog.

No, dude, they were actually a real band there for a little while.

So what's the problem with Paul Bley's "fuck the audience" attitude, then?

Relish usually comes in a jar, but a hot dog relishing a box is not unheard of so...I'll just leave it there while I can.

Did it involve relish?

He didn't get fired, did he?

Nah, that lineup is too strong to be contained for too long. Put another way, there's a reason why Feliz was brought in to close out two games with four run leads. I doubt you'd see that against too many other teams.

Is that Chicago stuff actually considered "relish"? If so, that's the exception to my rule, because unlike other pickle relish, it's not wet in either texture or flavor.

Be careful what you ask for...you're liable to end up with each tune being prefaced by a lecture about modes and time signatures and such...you don't want too much of that, trust me! OTOH, if there is a "programmatic" slant to the music, if it was inspired by something or is dedicated to somebody, if there's a story behind the music, it's always nice to hear that, but only from a decent storyteller. You don't have to be a natural raconteur like Cannonball or Duke, just be able to enjoy telling a good story, that's all. Or at least be able to project a believable persona. Be a grumpy old prick if that's what works, but make it good, and make it work. And OTOOH, some people got a strong enough mojo that they don't have to say anything or do anything other than just show up and start playing. But there are not nearly as many of those as there are those who think they are one of those...

And I'm guessing that the appeal these artists had to you was at least in part based on, for lack of better terms, the "energy" or the "vibe" that these musics had, the intuitive sense that what was being said was using a language/methodology/whatever that was inspired by the vibe and the energy of what was going on in the rest of your world. When Quartet Out was an ongoing entity, we ran into that all the time - younger people who didn't know Jazz from Pez would really get into the music because of the energy. Older, more mainstream "jazz audiences" would be repelled by that exact energy. Hell, we didn't care who dug it or if they "understood" it, we were just happy that people were feeling it. If you want to play for an audience instead of to it, htat's really all you can hope for. Everything else, if/when it's there, is icing on the cake. Deliciously sweet icing, to be sure, but icing nevertheless.

Not a relish fan here, either. Chow-Chow, yes. Zucchini relish, yes. Pickle relish, no. And never in combination with ketchup. Never.

Ketchup is cool on hot dogs, if applied as part of a consistent flavor profile. But other stuff is lots more cool...

Bach was sharp enough a businessman & leader to realize that the first audience he had to get over with was his bosses in Leipzig. The more things change...

Well, if you're talking specifically about the Miles/Elis thing, hey, Miles was already there...don't know how much he would have been influenced as much as he would have been an influence, at least early on. But it's also safe to assume that hearing people such as Elis who were kindred spirits within their own native idiom was not something he would have had an indifferent response to...remember, he gave Gilberto the "he could sing the phone book and make it sound good" compliment back in 62/63, so you know he was heartened to hear other original voices coming from the same general place he was. Who wouldn't be? Miles could easily have been named Sherwin-Williams. He pretty much covered the world.

otoh...the meticulous recording/production esthetic they became known for did have an influence on a lot of "glossier" jazz records that followed in their wake. I'd also posit that, while not an influence per se, a lot of players who heard both SD & jazz in their formative years did not push the former out of the picture as they pursued the latter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IinaEJ_37g

Same here...a case of kindred spirits finding each other once "the world began to shrink"...not just those two but musicians in general began to realize that there were other people in other places with other languages who shared many of the same qualities.

Or do you both look like your granddaddy?

The word I keep hearing about him is "improved". God, I hope so...he really showed some character to finish the 7th today, it was like Wash left him in to say ok, guy, are you who you want to be or not, show me now, and, yeah, he was. Wash & Zappa gave each other a serious fist bump when that third out came, as much relief as affirmation. But it's stuff like that that builds confidence & character in a player, makes him want to play for the team, builds (here's that word again...) character. Works for me. Fun series, looking like it might be another fun team this year, we'll see. It's early, to put it mildly...