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erhodes
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I was wondering whether or not someone would reference the "Cotton Club" or the "Town Casino" or the "Continental Restaurant" in this thread.
February 1956, Town Casino, Buffalo, NY
1) Introduction :52
2) Daahoud 6:36
3) Announcement and interview w/ Max Roach 1:09
4) Round Midnight 8:14
5) Announcement :38
6) Blues Walk 7:12
7) Closing announcement :50
Early 1956, Chicago
1st set1) Untitled Blues (incomplete) 14:08
2nd set2) More Than You Know (featuring Sonny Rollins) 3:50
3) Embraceable You (featuring Clifford Brown) 3:18
4) I’ll Remember April (fragment) 14:52
5) Wee Dot (fragment) 8:44
3rd Set6) 52nd Street Theme 6:05
7) I’ll See You In My Dreams 4:54
8) These Foolish Things (featuring George Morrow) 3:17
1956, unknown location
1) I'll Remember April 18:472) What's New 3:50
3) Daahoud 10:20
4) Lover Man 6:32
5) 52nd Street Theme 6:18
April 28, 1956, New York, Basin Street
1) Waltz Hot 7:432) I Feel a Song Comin' on 5:17
May 16, 1956, New York, Basin Street (Willie Jones substitutes for Max Roach)1) What's New 3:16
2) Daahoud 5:22
3) Sweet Clifford 5:37
May 28 – June 3, 1956, Cleveland, OH, Cotton Club
1st set1) Introduction by Clifford Brown 1:29
2) Take the A Train 13:39
3) Introduction by Max Roach 0:39
4) Darn That Dream (featuring Sonny Rollins) 3:55
5) Intermission announcement by Clifford Brown 0:35
6) Nice Work If You Can Get It (incomplete) 18:51
2nd set7) Jordu 17:26
3rd set8) Introduction by Max Roach :44
9) Get Happy (incomplete) 22:21
10) Valse Hot (fragment) 3:43
June 18, 1956, Continental Restaurant, Norfolk, VA
1st set
1) Introduction 1:07
2) Just One Of Those Things 20:02
3) You Go To My Head 8:52
4) Good Bait (incomplete) 15:23
2nd set1) One For My Baby and One More For the Road 4:07
(featuring Richie Powell)
2) Someone To Watch Over Me (featuring Sonny Rollins) 4:04
3) Announcement :51
4) What’s New (featuring Clifford Brown) 4:04
5) Announcement by Max Roach :38
6) These Foolish Things (featuring George Morrow) 3:38
December 10, 1956, New York, Café Bohemia (Kenny Dorham replaces Clifford Brown)
1) Valse Hot 5:50
2) I Get A Kick Out of You 16:06
December 15, 1956, New York, Café Bohemia (Kenny Dorham replaces Clifford Brown)
1) I Feel A Song Coming On 10:10
2) Daahoud (incomplete) 2:35
This is not a strict, chronological discographical listing because, for instance, the material listed from the Cotton Club did not come to me labeled as "sets". This is just the way it was grouped and this was the simplest way to list it here. Same thing with the "Early Chicago 1956" material. The Continental Restaurant material, OTOH, is two legitimate sets.
The broader point is that all of this material, excepting the last two sets with Kenny Dorham, was issued on Philology in the "Brownie's Eyes" series and it has been subsequently re-booted on a variety of labels including RLR.
I compiled it for my own listening years ago and I got 5-6 cd's out of it.
Note that the "1956 unknown location" set is the Elektra/Pure Genius material. I think the Philology boot was after the Elektra issue. Also, the second of the Basin Street dates does not feature Max Roach. Willie Jone was the substitute. Both dates were issued on Ingo as lp's and then re-booted on cd...I believe on RLR again.
But to the question at the beginning of this post, there' actually quite a bit of Sonny and Max on record.
And don't forget Freedom Suite.
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Sonny Rollins, Jymie Merit, Max Roach
November 1, 1966, Paris
Will You Still Be Mine
Medley - There Will Never Be Another You / Three Little Words (almost a half hour)
November 6, 1966, England, Reading University, add Ronnie Matthews (p); TV show, "Jazz Goes to College"
St. Thomas (just a very short introduction)
Will You Still Be Mine (about 25 minutes)
November 10, 1966, Stockholm, Koncerthuset
There Will Never Be Another You
November 11, 1966 Copenhagen, Tivoli's Koncertsal
It Could Happen to You (about 17 minutes)
November 12, 1966, Graz,
Love Walked In, Jazz Connoisseru JC108
Lover (about 16 minutes), Unique Jazz UJ29
Poinciana (about 16 minutes), Jazz Connoisseru JC108
The Graz concert does indeed run very fast. I slowed mine down by matching the pitch of Nommo (Roach quintet part of the concert) to the "Drums Unlimited" lp. Nommo still plays faster thant the lp but the resulting pitches on the Rollins part of the concert sound about right.
Lover, from the Graz concert, has been my favorite Rollins solo for a long time. The long medley from Paris is a spectacular performance from all involved. Recently found the Stockholm concert, which also has tracks by the Roach quintet. The Stockholm was a surprise to me but, overall, this stuff is not terribly rare.
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Can't identify the bass player but this photo suggests the pictures might be from the Actuel festival.
That's Zappa with Shepp.
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Yes. And the Trane set is the one with Shepp. Tape exists.
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Many thanks for this. Second or third time I've gotten a foobar recommendation. I'm on it.
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Has anyone encountered with the extension <.ape>? I've googled it and it appears to be a lossless format similar to flac but with minimal "platform" support.
I received a file in this format and am looking to convert it to wav. There is an encoder/decoder at www.monkeysaudio.com but I have no experience with the format or the software and am wary about downloading the app.
Anyone have experience with this?
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20 hours ago, Dave Garrett said:
I assume you have the premium version of MalwareBytes that provides real-time monitoring. I don't have much experience with that version, but if you're going to be accessing blog links to any of the various cloud storage services like Mediafire, you should be running two browser add-ins: uBlock Origin and an industrial-strength pop-up blocker like Poper Blocker. That combination will kill almost all of the more egregious attempts to inject ads that border on malware, unwanted redirects, and pop-ups that ignore the built-in pop-up blocking function in most browsers. You can still allow "good" pop-ups on a case-by-case basis.
Whew...
Many thanks for this info, Dave. You are correct viz. MalwareBytes though I let my premium lapse. That's what initially alerted me to the problem, though.
I'm going to follow your advice...and proceed with caution. Looking forward to hearing some of the material at electricjive.
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Following up on some older posts regarding the electricjive site, can anyone comment on their experience with mediafire? My malwarebytes explodes when I have tried to follow the download links, though I have done so much more recently than the posts that cited electricjive. Any comments or advice would be welcome.
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Huh...
Murray did talk about it here.
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1 hour ago, paul secor said:
I was listening to Roscoe Mitchell's Nessa recording, Celebrating Fred Anderson. yesterday and remembered a story I'd read (can't recall where) about Mr. Mitchell sitting in with Coltrane's group at a Chicago club in 1965 or '66, playing a solo that left many folks with dropped jaws, packing up his horn and leaving the club without saying a word. I have no way of knowing if that story is true, if it's a myth, or a combination of the two. And I don't care which it is. To me, it's just a great story. Sometimes myths are better than "facts".
The truth is in the music....and...
Re: broken wrists...
This from an old Cecil discography by Mike Hames. It's part of the notes for an entry dated March-April 1964, the Bennington College performance and panel.
"Cecil Taylor seems to have played very few gigs in 1964 - partly because he was attacked in May, 1964 and had his wrist broken."
Sunny Murray's references to "gangsters" was usually about his own recordings. He used that term to describe the people at BYG. I know of no instance in which he used it to describe people in connection with Cecil's recordings.
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10 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:
The NYAQ recordings from Four Days In December are part of the Call It Art box on Triple Point.
I'd also check out Dixonia if you haven't yet. Much useful information there.
Indeed. Pages 345-347 have a detailed listing of the bands and some of the sidemen. The band detail is interesting.
October 1
Joe Manieri
Ali Jackson Quartet
John Tchicai/Roswell Rudd/Lewis Worrel, w/ Milford Graves (d)
Paul Bley Quentet (the "Barrage" band w/ Marshall Allen, Dewey Johnson, Eddie Gomez, Milford Graves)
Jimmy Giuffre (unaccompanied ts)
Charles Wittenberg (b, others?)
October 2
Joe Scianni-David Izenson
Julian Hayter (g) Quartet
Martin Siegel (p) Quartet
Bobby Brown (as) Quartet
Alan Silva Trio, possibly Burton Green, Clarence Walker
October 3
Giuseppi Logan Trio (but it's a quartet), Lewis Worrell, Don Pullen, Milford Graves
Arthur Keyes (p) Octet
Barry Milroad (p) Duo
Louis Brown (ts) Quartet, possibly Larry Willis (p)
Bill Dixon Sextet w/ Giuseppi Logan, Rob Rolston, Gary Porter, Reggie Johnson, Rashied Ali
October 4
Valdo Williams (p) Trio
Ken McIntyre Octet
Sun Ra Sextet
Don Heckman (as) Octet w/ Don Friedman, Alan Silva, Joe Hunt, Sheila Jordan
Midge Pike (b) Duo
Robert Wales (solo p)
Free Form Improvisational Ensemble- John Winter, Gary William Friedman, Burton Greene, Alan Silva, Clarence Walker
Of these, only the Dixon set from October 3 is listed as having been recorded.
This is not what folks might expect from, say, a survey of ESP releases from 1964.
Anyone who is interested in the October Revolution, the Four Days In December or the Jazz Composers Guild should be referencing Dixonia. It's all there.
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Chris DeVito, who authored the chronology section of the Coltrane Reference, had a heart attack on Monday night. He underwent triple bypass surgery today and will undergo another procedure tomorrow. His wife, Julia, reports that Chris was upbeat going into the surgery and that it went well. He is looking at an extended period of recovery.
I believe Chris is largely a lurker on this board but he has posted every once in awhile and I think that many here are familiar with his work.
Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers. I will update the board as I get new information.
Ed Rhodes
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I was at the Village Theater concert from February(?) 1967 that was partly released on the Impulse album.
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An alternative approach. Solves some problems but raises others.
I have an old computer running Windows XP connected to my hifi via a sound card that has RCA jacks, stereo inputs and outputs. The computer connects to my preamp through the tape inputs and outputs. I use Wave Lab and Sound Forge both of which are, I believe, what is known as "mastering" software. Any analogue source - any record that I can play on my system, tape (reel-to-reel and cassette) and even my FM tuner - can be captured in this rig. The software records the analogue source as a WAV file. Both packages can burn CD's from the WAV files or save them in another format to export to something else. Both come bundled with a bunch of plug-ins for a wide range of "effects" that can be used to edit and manipulate the files. The Wave Lab package can use the effects from Sound Forge. Not sure if that works in the other direction.
If I chose to do so, I could have iTunes import any of these WAV files and convert them to whatever format I was using in iTunes. My iTunes is on another computer and they are not connected over my network so it's a cumbersome manual process for me but it doesn't have to be so. I may fix that one day.
The problems with this approach are,
- Finding a sound card with RCA jacks. I had to buy a used one on ebay. Most modern 3rd party sound cards are concerned with things like midi interfaces, etc.
- Wave Lab, Sound Forge and other similar packages are expensive. It might be possible to use some of the other software noted in this and other threads on analogue to digital conversion.
The benefits are that I get whatever sound quality I have from my regular analogue playback rig. And once it's set up (not a trivial matter) it's done. I set my preamp to whatever input I want to record from and then use my computer the way I once used a tape deck. Hit the record button and go...
The Tascam would be, in a sense, a substitute for a hard drive and a cumbersome way around the issue of finding a sound card that will interface with your hifi. I suppose it's doable but if you are looking to embark on a long term, heavy duty project I would at least investigate this alternative. It would work on any Windows or Mac platform. But you do need the sound card and the software.
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Thanks to those that responded and especially to mjzee for the links. I found a few links of my own which are highly technical and which don't resolve the issue. The best I can get from these sources and this Organissimo discussion is that dither is used to record live performances and when reducing a file's bit count, e.g., from 20 or 24 to 16 bits. I can find no instance where dither is specifically recommended for digital dubbing of an analogue source and that appears to be consistent with the consensus in this thread.
Again, many thanks to all.
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Apparently it is various forms of white and pink noise that your software actually ads to the recording. For a number of very obscure and highly technical reasons it's supposed to improve the dynamic range of digital recordings and, according to some claims, improve the overall sound.
I use Wave Lab and it has a number of dithering alogorithms but the instructions are sketchy. If you are digitally recording a live band dither seems to be obligatory but I'm less clear about using it to digitize, say, my lp's. Have been doing that for a long time, never used the dither function. Just wanted to know if anyone else has experience with it or understands when it should be used.
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Danny Davis.
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Is dither required or advisable when you are digitizing things like lp's or analogue tape? I have software with a variety of dither algorithms but the instructions seem to be referring to recordings of live music.
If dither is to be used to dub analogue recordings, does anyone have advise on which algorithms would be best for that purpose?
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Anything is possible but this is unlikely. Losin lists no such session. Neither does the Coltrane reference. Rollins was leading his own band at this time and Trane was with Monk.
The Miles/Sonny/Trane set that is referenced in the "literature" is at the Audobon Ballroom circa 1949-50. This is set at which Sonny "ruled", according to Jackie McLean. It wasn't recorded.
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This is a Boris Rose recording. The original issue is https://www.discogs.com/Johnny-Hodges-At-A-Dance-In-A-Studio-On-Radio/release/4429593
Date and location has traditionally been given as Los Angeles, June-early July 1954. It's been re-bootlegged numerous times. Coltrane recorded commercially with Hodges but those records have no Coltrane solos.
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I pulled out the Affinity 2-fer last night and gave it a spin. I haven’t listened to that recording in a very long time. I didn't remember that it’s mono…
Bon Voyage is definitely the quintet plus Fontella. Moye is prominent and Fontella does her bit on side 2.
I remember being under the impression…again from years ago…that “Oh Strange” was a quartet side and thus presumably from 1969 per Chuck’s post. I’m no longer so sure. There’s no prominent trap drum set and I don’t hear Fontella but, on side B, there are a couple of places where drum licks…in one case seemingly played on a tympani or some other low pitched drum…appear to be played by a drummer as opposed to the percussion effects that the quartet produced. There’s also some of Roscoe’s bass sax in the mix, something I associate with the quintet. OTOH, at one point Roscoe improvises on a melody that I associate with the quartet…is it “Erika”? Beautiful melody…
Then there’s this footnote in the AEC discography by Eddy Janssens and Hugo Decraen (fn # 69, displayed on page 80).
“Again their exists a controversy with respect to the place and dat of recording. Lindenmaier suggests that these recordings might have taken place in Paris on October 5th or November 8th 1969. Also the sleeve notes of theAffinity re-issue give October 5th 1969 as possibility. We used here the data provided by Dutilh and Goddet in their AEC-discography (Jazz Hot, 1978). Recent Laurent Goddet confirmed again that these sessions have been recorded at Chateauvallon during August 1970. The sessions were also broadcasted by France Musique during which it was clearly stated that they were recorded in 1970 at the Chateauvallon festival.”
To complicate matters, there’s a cd on the Jazz Music Yesterday label, JMY 1008-2, “Eda Wobu”, which says it was recorded in Paris on October 5, 1969. It’s one 48 minute track of the same title. The personnel given is the quartet and the photo on the cover is from a quartet studio session, FWIW. I haven’t listened to that in a very long time as well. Will give it a turn and look for evidence of “Oh Strange” anywhere in the mix, though notoriously faulty memory tells me that it’s not the same performance.
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There is more "live" material by this group than there is studio material.
Rochester, NY, Town Casino – February 26, 1956
Introduction :52
Daahoud 6:36
Announcement and interview w/ Max Roach 1:09
Round Midnight 8:14
Announcement :38
Blues Walk 7:12
Closing announcement :50
New York, Basin Street Club – April 28, 1956
Valse Hot 7:43
I Feel A Song Comin’ On 5:17
New York, Basin Street Club – May 6, 1956
What’s New 3:16
Daahoud 5:22
Sweet Clifford 5:37
Cleveland, OH, Cotton Club – May 28, 29, June 1, 1956
Introduction by Clifford Brown 1:29
Take the A Train 13:39
Introduction by Max Roach 0:39
Darn That Dream (featuring Sonny Rollins) 3:55
Intermission announcement by Clifford Brown 0:35
Nice Work If You Can Get It (incomplete) 18:51
Introduction by Max Roach :44
Get Happy (incomplete) 22:21
Valse Hot (fragment) 3:43
Delilah 13.26
Diggin’ Diz (Lover)* 14:59
Jordu 17:26
Early 1956, Chicago
More Than You Know (featuring Sonny Rollins) 3:50
Embraceable You (featuring Clifford Brown) 3:18
I’ll Remember April (fragment) 14:52
Wee Dot (fragment) 8:44
I’ll See You In My Dreams 4:54
These Foolish Things (featuring George Morrow) 3:17
Untitled Blues (incomplete) 14:08
1956, Unknown location
I’ll Remember April 18:47
What’s New 3:50
Daahoud 10:20
Lover Man 6:32
52nd Street Theme 6:18
“Pure Genius, vol. 1”, Elektra Musician E1-60026
Norfolk, VA, Continental Restaurant – June 18, 1956
Introduction 1:07
Just One Of Those Things 20:02
You Go To My Head 8:52
Good Bait (incomplete) 15:23
One For My Baby and One More For the Road 4:07
(featuring Richie Powell)
Someone To Watch Over Me (featuring Sonny Rollins) 4:04
Announcement :51
What’s New (featuring Clifford Brown) 4:04
Announcement by Max Roach :38
These Foolish Things (featuring George Morrow) 3:38
I Get A Kick Out Of You 24:33
Ending Annoucements by Max Roach
All of this material has been issued by now and all of it is bootleg...or public domain...except possibly the "Pure Genius, vol. 1" release, which is the one that has the LaRue Brown-Watson quote and reference (not the GNP).
A lot of these times will change depending on what discographical source you use. And there are questions about the "Early 1956, Chicago" vs. the "Cotton Club" attributions. In particular, one or more of the last three items I have down as the Cotton Club may be from Chicago. And, no, there is no specific indication in any source that the Chicago venue might be the Bee Hive.
Many of the pieces marked as "fragments" or "incomplete" are really that. E.g., one lengthy fragment is mostly a Max Roach drum solo. OTOH, some of the longer tracks - "Just One of Those Things", "Good Bait" and "I Get A Kick Out of You" from the Continental Lounge and "A Train" and "Nice Work" from the Cotton Club - are unlike anything on the studio dates, if only because the length allows for some stretching out that doesn't happen in the same way on the shorter pieces.
Note that there are two air checks that actually originate from Basin Street as opposed to the Emarcy studio date which is just named for it. Not the same thing.
As far as whether the "Pure Genius" date was in fact a boot, I have no idea. The cover goes to greater than usual lengths to cite both Max and LaRue as being involved in the production but the truth could be quite different. The comments cited would have to be about this release, though. The GNP is another thing altogether.
Ed Rhodes
Jazz Oracle
in Re-issues
Posted
10...
The two alternates are part of the 35.
3/25/25 Piron's New Orleans Orchestra
Red Man Blues
Do Just as I Say
3/7/27 Louis Dumaine's Jazzola Eight
Pretty Audrey
To-Wa-Bac-A-Wa
Franklin Street Blues
Red Onion Drag
11/15/29 Jones-Collins Astoria Hot eight
Astoria Stomp
Duet stomp
Hot Weather
Tip Easy Blues
All 35 tracks are in the JSP box set "Breaking Out of New Orleans 1922-1929