_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
erhodes
-
Posts
204 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Donations
0.00 USD
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Blogs
Posts posted by erhodes
-
-
to me, this is way heavier, in its way, than Ayler = messenger-- bc that was a personal, transcendental quest & i ain't for transcending shit as long as the rest of folks are still down. check it out anyway--
A straw man...
The messenger piece...the way you put it...is yours. Ayler was a player and the message is in the playing. If you think he wasn't in the middle of it...you didn't see him walking down Eastern Parkway with vaseline on his face.
Nas or whoever can posture about shooting dj's till the cows come home...or till the next time there's a raid at Kahlua's... But neither him or any of his boys have any words with the power of Albert's notes... And nobody is going to raise up with Nas's posturing. It takes more than music...
Albert played is ass off... That's all the message that anyone has.
Nas...
Huh...
-
I don't think Ayler is particularly about important records, the consesus of those who heard him live seems to be that none of them fully capture the power of his playing.
I saw Albert once, at the February '67 Village Theater concert that was part of the Impulse "Greewich Village" release. I don't think recordings are any less faithful to him than they are for Sonny Rollins...or, for that matter, Trane.
Ayler was very strong...very strong. But he wasn't the only one. I usually find myself on the other end of this argument when the Sun Ra people start talking as if Gilmore just walked over everybody. But here I'll say that Gilmore was just as strong. I saw Albert, Trane, Pharoah (w/ Trane), Gilmore (w/ Ra), Rollins, all around the same time (mid to late 60's) and, if anything, Pharoah was the loudest. I'm thinking that's not necessarily the same as being the strongest.
Albert's strength and the kind of sound he had...when he played melodies and used that wide vibrato with that kind of groaning quality...the strength of his sound projected in a unique way. But then...Gilmore at Slug's, the sound sometimes seemed so big it had no place to go. And Pharoah...I had this image at the Village Theater of the first three rows of seats being blown to the back of the hall.
Recordings have their limitations. As Cecil said, the recording engineers bring down the power of the strongest players. You make the same adjustment with Albert as with anyone else with a big sound. It gets through...enough.
-
Witches and Devils and My Name is Albert Ayler are also worth seeking out.
Particularly "Withes and Devils", originally "Spirits" on Debut.
My list was far from complete. Ayler is one of those people about whom you could say, "Buy everything". I was trying to pair it down a bit...though that's not how it worked out.
-
Yeah, there is a book available in German, Spirits Rejoice by Peter Niklas Wilson. This is a good biography, simply much better than anything we have in English.
Richard Koloda (sp?) has a draft of an Ayler bio. I saw it a couple of years back. It was quite extensive but a ways from final form. I imagine it is difficult to get something like that published. Perhaps someone else has a more recent update.
-
I think Ed does a good job (Surprise!)...
?
Simon and I have some history but I don't know where this fits...
You're surprised that I did a good job or I should be suprised that you think it's a good job?
I mean...I could have let it go...but then...you could have left it out...
-
Up. I'm listening to the Copenhagen 11/2/67 gig. It makes me want to play with legos.
If you're a Miles fan, you need to hear this stuff.
I have three copies of this and it is the worst recorded concert from the tour. There are two decently recorded tracks in the middle but the opening two and the closing "Masqualero" seem to be from a different and decidely inferior source.
Is this your experience? How does your Copenhagen compare with the rest of the tour?
I seem to recall it being alright -- certainly not on the level of Paris (11/6), Antwerp (10/28) or even Karlsruhe (11/7) but definitely listenable. On the other hand, the 2nd half of Rotterdam (10/30) is pretty bad.
I will give it another spin.
Hmmm...
My Rotterdam is pretty good...just interrupted with announcements and the first track..."Footprints"?...is incomplete (starts in the middle).
Let me know.
-
Up. I'm listening to the Copenhagen 11/2/67 gig. It makes me want to play with legos.
If you're a Miles fan, you need to hear this stuff.
I have three copies of this and it is the worst recorded concert from the tour. There are two decently recorded tracks in the middle but the opening two and the closing "Masqualero" seem to be from a different and decidely inferior source.
Is this your experience? How does your Copenhagen compare with the rest of the tour?
-
Regarding the box...
I'd say, ultimately, that it's worth however much money you can get it for (around $90-95 seems to be the basic price). I'm not sure how great it is as a starting point, though, because, as a claimed "rarities" set, it doesn't cover the major recorded junctures (i.e., it gets the periods in there, but it doesn't include many of the pivotal documents that have shaped our understanding of Ayler over the years--the ESPs, the Impulses, etc.).
...I pretty much agree with this. I have the box and think it's a very important set of music and a wonderful artifact for all the reasons given...but it's not the core of Ayler's accomplishments.
I'll be a bit more emphatic than some of the other posters...
Get the key 1964 material first. It is Ayler's best playing, with just a few exeptions, and the quartet sets with Cherry are Ayler's best ensemble work.
The quartet material is the "Spiritual Unity" trio plus Cherry. There's a bit more to it than the items already referenced.
Trios
"Spiritual Unity", on ESP. "Ghosts, Second Variation" is, IMO, Ayler's best recorded solo and perhaps the definitive demonstration of the possibilities for this kind...and level...of free jazz.
The Cellar Cafe material; recorded a month earlier (June). One set was released as "Prophesy" on ESP. The "Prophesy" set and a second set was released on a bootleg on the InRespect label entitled, "Albert Smiltes with Sunny". The second set was reissued legitimately in the Revenant box. AFAIK, all issues of the first set...the one on "Prophesy"...play fast, including the one on InRespect, which was supposed to have been speed corrected. There is a version of "Spirits" on this first set...mistitled...that's a killer in its own right.
Quatets with Don Cherry
"Vibrations" (Arista/Freedom), originally issued as "Ghosts" on debut. The firs of the quartets. Many people feel this is Albert's best album.
"Hilversum Sessions", originally issued on Osmosis (lp); reissued on cd (label?). Recorded two months later. Little to choose between the two. Another superlative set.
"The Copenhagen Tapes", Ayler Records. A live session fom the Cafe Monmartre and a studio date from Danish Radio. The Monmartre session was reissued in the Revenant box but the Ayler Records cd is the only commercial issue of the rarer Danish Radio session. Find it. The Monmarte date is right there with "Vibrations" and "Hilversum"; the Danish Radio date is maybe a shade behind them.
This stuff is close the Coleman and Coltrane quartets in terms of its accomplishments and importance.
Most of the material from '65 on features Albert's brother, Donald, on trumpet. Of this, I prefer the '65 material with Sunny Murray on drums. There are two ESP's: "Bells" and "Spirits Rejoice". This is perhaps the best introduction to Albert's marching thing and his usage of themes like the French national anthem. I prefer "Spirits Rejoice" but you will probably want both. Charles Tyler is an added plus on alto.
The '66 and early '67 material features Beaver Harris or Ronald Shannon on drums and Michel Sampson on violin for Tyler. The repertoire is similar to '66. On record, at least, I think it's not quite as effectively done but it has its moments...for me these are usually when Ayler is playing. There's a lot of this on several labels: Impulse, Hat Hut, Base, several boots, and some in the Revenant box.
Of the material after that, the 1968 "Love Cry" cd has one track - "Love Cry II" - that was not issued on the lp and which has some of the elements of the '64-'67 material. After that, Albert made some crossover music that is the subject of another thread on this board. Listen for yourself. I don't like it.
The Revenant box has some earlier material and fleshes out the '64-'67 period with material that has not been issued legitimately elsewhere. But, if you want to be systematic, I would start with '64, move through the "Love Cry" date, then look at pre-'64 and post-'68.
-
Reelin' In the Years owns the rights to the video footage from Trane's 1965 Comblain La Tour perfomance and the clip of "I Want to Talk About You" from the 1962 Stockholm concert. It will be interesting to see what they have from the '64 Mingus w/ Dolphy tour. Shanachie has already issued the Oslo concert commercially on vhs and I believe it is also part of a commercially issued Dolph dvd. There are two other filmed performances that I know of: the rehersal from the Stockholm concert and a film of the Liege studio date, complete with footage of the musicians arriving on a bus. 90 minutes suggests that RITY may have the rights to both.
Exciting prospect. Hope it pans out.
-
Let me tell you one thing, and I am speaking as professional film and video editor. None of the today's LCD or Plasma monitors can reach the definition, the realism and the quality of good catode tube monitor. When I check my final work for broadcasting I do it on a professional Sony catode tube monitor, 15 inch, that cost twice the price of the best flat screen you can find on consumer market. So if you HAVE TO buy a flat screen, do it, I understand all the facilities that a flat screen has compared to a bulky cathode tube. If you HAVE TO buy a biggest TV, buy it, I know that manufacturers deleted from their catalog cathode tube bigger then 17 inch. BUT if you don't need a new TV, just wait. Technology is running fast, companies put huge amount of money in the field. Flat screen IS the THING now. Maybe we will have some pleasant surprise in the next future.
OTOH...
I had a 32 inch Sony CRT. It was so heavy that my 6'2" weight lifting, body building nephew could not easily lift it. The sound card died after the warranty was up. My local tv repair shop came to get it. Took two hefty guys to get it out of the basement. Some time after they bought it it back, it fell...FELL...on one of my Maggie 1.6's and broke the frame. I had to buy a new box and take half a day off from work to ship the speaker back to Magnapan (they were able to fix it). Then the sound card died on the tv again. I literally paid two guys to take the thing out of my basement. I didn't want to see it...
To each his own, I know, but I'm never buying another crt. Quite some time ago I had experience with a professional monitor, so I have a small sense of what porcy62 describes but I would also say that it has almost nothing to do with the reality of what you can buy in a store. I have 3 lcd flat panels and they all deliver a better picture in my house than any of my Sony crt's...and I had both a 32" and 27".
The motion blur piece that Lenny describes is real, though. I see it on all of my lcd's. I'm distressed to hear that plasmas don't suffer from this, though I think I have seen that pixelated effect on some plasmas in stores. Never was sure how much of that was the tv and how much was the signal because a bad signal will generate something similar on an lcd. I stayed away from plasmas because of the durability, longevity, and burn-in issues. I was very concerned about the last since, in my area there are only 8-10 viable hi def channels and I watch everything else in 4:3 mode...so I don't want 4:3 burn in. I will say, though, that the best picture I have seen in a store was either a Panasonic or Pioneer plasma. Incredible detail on a 46"-50" display, even a foot from the screen. But I'm thinking 3K...way over my pay grade. And I'd have been pissed if it died or burned in before I figure I got my money's worth.
I paid $800 for a 42" lcd with an 8ms display (I'm ashame to admit I hit the stores on Black Friday)...and I don't watch that much football. If I can ever get the damn thing adjusted...
-
I think Sony's SXRD, which is a form of rear projection LCD (I think), has the finest picture I've ever seen.
The hard part, I think, is that the "finest picture" is a very elusive thing. You'd really need to bring all of the TVs home and tune them to see what they can do. My Sony looks light years better than it did out of the box and it took hours to get it that way. I bought a 20" LCD a year or so ago and sat it next to my Sony to tune it. It was horrible out of the box. The colors were so far off...pink was showing up as orange, etc.
It's a mess because they set these TVs are set up for the sole purpose of getting your attention. And most people bring them home and don't spend the time to get them right.
Yep, I wasted a whole Saturday a few weeks ago setting up my Sony LCD. There are so many poorly and unexplained features in the new models it is ridiculous. I found that turning them all off is a pretty good start. There are DVDs out on the market designed to help you calibrate the color and brightness settings. I haven't used them, although I found the brightness adjustment test that Lynch added on as a bonus feature to the Eraserhead DVD to be helpful.
I'm glad to see I'm not alone.
Just bought a 42" lcd (flat) for a ridiculous price. The manual is 74 pages and one of those things that has been...ah...poorly translated. But the tv must have 25 menus. There's are separate color adjustments for red, green, and blue at 6500 (I assume this is degrees) and 9300 (or 6300 and 9500), plus the usual color, saturation, and tint controls. Many of the picture adjustements are not in the picture menu. And, yes, a lot of unexplained features have a factory default of "on" and it's not at all clear what they are doing.
I was almost dispairing of getting this one adjusted until I read these posts. Many thanks for the commiseration.
-
Ed,
Of course, you had a portable tape recorded with you that day, right?
Bertrand.
...like one of those old Wollensaks...about as portable as they got in those days...
I wish...
No tapes...just a deteriorating memory...
I assume Larry was playing organ?
Yes. No piano or other keyboard.
-
emusic has this new 2 disc set...
any word on this set?
First, the date on this is August 1963. The listing is in Fujioka, p. 226, where the date is given as "63-0700". This date is wrong. Coltrane was not at the Showboat in July 1963.
Second, it was recorded by Allan Sukoenig.
Third, a copy resides at the Institute of Jazz Studies on the Newark campus of Rutgers University.
Fourth, the entire tape was played during the WKCR Coltrane marathon in, I believe, 2005 (2004?). A number of people taped it and it has been in circulation ever since.
Fifth, the sound quality is only fair.
Finally, the version of "Impressions" is about 35 minutes and it is outstanding...noticeably different from the various versions from the 1963 European tour.
-
Ed,
Of course, you had a portable tape recorded with you that day, right?
Bertrand.
...like one of those old Wollensaks...about as portable as they got in those days...
I wish...
No tapes...just a deteriorating memory...
-
I currently have cable but do not use the cable box- I just hooked the wire up to my DVD recorder and then hooked that to the TV. I may have to get a cable box and am being told that by using the cable box I will be unable to record a program while watching another.
Is this true (and if so, why can I do it wihtout the box) or is it a way to get me to buy their TIVO?
The ability to record one program and watch another has nothing directly to do with TIVO.
A cable box only feeds one channel at a time to your tv (or vcr, dvd, etc., if you have such a device in the loop). The cable box accepts the signal from the cable provider, which has all of the channels to which you subscribe, but it only puts out the channel you select to watch. So there is no choice of a second channel to watch while you record the first. Similarly, there is no choice of a second channel for picture-in-picture. Cable companies used to get around these limitations by providing subscribers with A/B switches, where the "B" input could accept another feed, either from a second box or from the regular antenna. There may be additional options available but, bottom line, you need at least two distinct channel outputs or you need the composite signal directly from you cable line...which is what you are using now.
TIVO is just a particular kind of video recording device. It would only allow you to record one program and watch another...assuming you are using a conventional cable box...if it could record and playback two separate programs simultaneosly. I have no experience with TIVO but I don't know of it being able to do this. It would be quite a trick.
-
all this set is i think is bootlegs which have been bought out and issued, right?
No.
A good deal of the material has never been commercially issued, boot or otherwise. The Cellar Cafe material was issued on InRespect and that was, indeed, a boot. The September 1964 Monmartre material was issued on Ayler records and that was positioned as a legitimate release. A lot...but not all...of the rest was circulated on the Ayler tree that originated on the Coltrane listserv.
-
During the WKCR Dewey Redman tribute back in September, Ben Young said that apparently Dewey Redman and Larry Young had a gig together at Slugs' in 1968 (with Rashied Ali).
Discuss....
Bertrand.
I was at that gig.
Slug's had a series called "Jazz on a Sunday Afternoon" or some such where they featured acts that, for whatever reason, didn't seem to warrant a regular gig. Sam Rivers did one of those with the "New Conception" band. I remember that Steve Ellington showed up late so the first set was just Rivers and Herbie Lewis...the best Sam I ever saw in person. There was another gig with Rivers, Benny Maupin, and Bill Barron.
Dewey did two of these, both trios, both with Rashied Ali on drums. Larry Young filled out the first gig. The second had a bassist...might have been Lewis again.
I was surprised to see Larry on that gig. I'm not sure if "Contrasts" and "Of Love and Peace" had been issued yet. I seem to remember that I was expecting the Larry of "Unity"...progressive, but I was wondering what the fit with Dewey might be.
May have been the best Dewey gig I saw, including the sets with Ornette. It was definitely tight. They played as a very tight unit...everyone very much on the same page. Dewey was like "Tarik"...flowing, linear, fee, but not super "out"...but...and memory is quite suspect here...I seem to remember that the tunes had more well defined heads than those on the BYG. Larry was a little to the left of "Major Affair" but also linear, on point with the tunes. Rashied was showing his chops...and that surprised me. The only Rashied I really knew at that point was Trane's Rashied. On this gig, he showed a little bit of a Clifford Jarvis like flair.
The whole thing was a surprise...and very strong.
I seem to remember that a lot of folks sat in on the second gig...Gato Barbieri...and I think that's where I saw Arthur Jones.
Slugs'...does the apostrophe come before or after the s?
-
The Bley is nice, though I wish Savoy had issued the quartet with Gilmore - though part of it was eventually on Turning Point.
Savoy did reissue this date with alternate takes as "Turns", Savoy SJL 1192. Note, however, that it was not a Savoy date. The original issue is on Improvising Artists.
Also, the Watts material...at least some of it...and the alternates from the "Turns" session were issued on Savoy SJL 2235, "New Music: Second Wave".
-
I haven't heard the 80th birthday concert, but from post-1962 Russell I can recommend especially "At Beethoven Hall" (MPS, 1965, available as japan imports)...
I am more or less in the same boat as you, jostber, but I have "At Beethoven Hall" (Motor Music CD reissue from 1998 - got it from a marketplace seller on amazon.de) - that one is indeed excellent!
It might be worth noting that the original issue of "At Beethoven Hall" was, in fact, two lp's. I get a rough count of about 72 minutes between the two so it should fit on one cd but...
Also, jostber might want to know that Don Cherry is a "guest artist" on this set and Tootie Heath is the drummer. This is the only post '62 Russell that I own but I'm not the Russell fan that most of the other posters seem to be so pay me no mind.
-
Also, has anyone ever heard the 1962 Olympia, Paris tape?
Those 1962 Olympia concerts were organized in collaboration with the Europe 1 radio station. There is a strong chance the tapes are still there.
I was at those concerts, first time I heard Coltrane live!
I have no knowledge of the original master but dubs of what was thought to be the first concert have been in circulation for decades. Also, some of the material in the Fantasy/Pablo "Live Trane" box may be from the second concert. At least one track in the box, a version of "Mr. P.C.", is the same as a track circulated in the private material.
My information is several years old but as of then there was still some confusion as to which tracks were actually from which concert, since neither the private tapes or the Fantasy/Pablo tracks play continuously.
Again, maybe the next Fuji book will clear this up.
-
Also, has anyone ever heard the 1962 Olympia, Paris tape?
Those 1962 Olympia concerts were organized in collaboration with the Europe 1 radio station. There is a strong chance the tapes are still there.
I was at those concerts, first time I heard Coltrane live!
I have no knowledge of the original master but dubs of what was thought to be the first concert have been in circulation for decades. Also, some of the material in the Fantasy/Pablo "Live Trane" box may from the second concert. At least one track in the box, a version of "Mr. P.C.", is the same track circulated in the traded material.
My information is several years old but as of then there was still some confusion as to which tracks were actually from which concert, since neither the private tapes or the Fantasy/Pablo tracks play continuously.
Again, maybe the next Fuji book will clear this up.
-
I didn't know about the private tapes, but I assume that someone has heard these and that the listing of 'Giant Steps' is correct.
Fujioka et al auditioned some of the Tiberi material prior to publication of their discography but they did not have unfettered access to the tapes and supporting documentation. The listings on the jazzdisco.org give the wrong impression, IMO. Most of the details re: the Tiberi tapes have yet to be confirmed. I would be cautious about drawing conclusions. The next edition of Fuji should have more but until Tiberi allows some researcher real access to his archive, we can't look at published information in the same way we can, say, discographical references to the Boris Rose material.
-
Go here:
http://www.jazzdisco.org/trane/dis/c/
Search for "Giant Steps" and other tunes of interest.
Hmmm....
The Showboat and Jazz Gallery listings are mostly from Frank Tiberi material (I believe all of the 1960 entries are). That means that virtually no one has those shows.
I'd be careful of jazzdisco.org. There information is often compiled, sometimes uncritically, from other sources. They have added a lot of material to their Coltrane disco based on entries from Fujioka that are subject to pretty substantial revisions. E.g., the July 1963 date they give for one Showboat set is wrong.
I'm fairly sure that they have not auditioned the Tiberi material and cannot vouch for the accuracy of dates, track listings, and even the existence of the tapes.
Mike Fitzgerald has commented at length on the problems with this site. I'm surprised that it is cited on this board as often as it is. Cross check it before you go to the bank with what they show.
-
Of her 3 "main" albums, I thnk the most consistent is her first:
Sly's drummer, Santana's conga player (I think), Larry Graham on bass, a few of Tower of Power's horn players, Sylvester, Patryce "Chocolate" Banks (from Graham Central Station), and the Pointer Sisters singing background...
Bad mf...
another Ayler thread
in Artists
Posted
I believe this may the piece on volume 2 of the "Don Cherry, Live at the Monmartre" set on Magnetic, MRCD 111 and 112. The second track is "Suite for Albert Ayler".