patricia

Looks like a new poll is in order Actually its a well argued point, Ed, the one thing that would concern me is that the event would need to coincide with a gig, and I wonder how far in advance that notice could be given? Ed made several good points. My vote, this time, was still for Lansing, for the reasons I stated before, but of course, the majority rules. Chicago and St Louis were the next in line for me. I don't want to end up in Lansing, if everyone else is somewhere else. The whole idea is to get together in a location that is fairly easy to get to, and if we hear the band too, well that would be icing on the cake. The first consideration is getting together and meeting our fellow board members. If it's too far, or too expensive, that may discourage some from attending, so maybe put that into the equasion. That's not an issue for people who live in the area, but it is for people like me who have to come a fair distance and aren't millionaires.

I'm late, as usual, to the discussion, and I'm too lazy to review the thread. So, forgive me if this suggestion has already been made. I'd like to hear the band's take of "Walk On The Wild Side". Although I first heard it, too many years ago, by Elmer Bernstein on the soundtrack of the mediocre movie of the same name, it was my reintroduction to jazz. So, it's kind of a sentimental choice for me. I know that it's been done by Jimmy Smith and also, as a vocal, by Brook Benton. But it is kick-ass. If there's still room, "Walk On The Wild Side", please.

OK, Here are a couple of nicknames by which jazzers were widely known. It isn't just the name's origins which would be enlightening, but a discussion of the person's contribution to jazz, as an expansion of the topic. I guess what I mean is that bringing the various artists to the fore, by talking about their interesting nicknames, we could learn more about them. So, Let's start with Gene "Jug" Ammons. It would seem too simple to assume that the "Jug" moniker could have been because he was a heavy juicer. That wouldn't have set him apart from the many other jazzers who also were. Gene was with the Billy Eckstine band from 1944-47 and then he worked with his father, the fabulous Albert Ammons, under his own name. He was also featured in the Woody Herman band in 1949, before going with Sonny Stitt in 1952, co-leading a two tenor septet. There were a couple of speed-bumps in his career road in 1958-60 and again in 1964-69 due to drug offences. Ammons made one European trip in 1973, but died, at forty-nine from pneumonia, just after a successful appearance at the Montreaux Jazz Festival. Ammons' tenor style has often been compared to that of Lester Young as well as Ben Webster. However, his was unique to him and not a imitation of either one. It was a tone similar to Webster's with lines that bring to mind Young's lines. I particularly like his ballad-playing, but I like ballads. His style in turn influenced many later players, such as Johnny Griffin and Clifford Jordan. The interesting thing to me is that any innovations that Ammons brought to jazz were soon absorbed into the total language of jazz and are not generally credited to Ammons' as original. Ammons' 1950 tune, "Gravy" was the basis for the standard, "Walkin' " which was copyrighted by Ammons' manager, Richard Carpenter. So, the nickname thing is just a jumping off point for more information about the possesser of the name and I think could help us know more about the artists. By starting with the nickname, it would, I think, be an interesting direction to bring the standard bios of familiar and not so familiar ones into the light and find out more about them. For example, Mildred Bailey signed her early photographs "Face Bailey". Does anyone know why? She had another nickname, "The Rockin' Chair Lady", which stemmed from her hit, with Whiteman's orchestra, "Rockin' Chair", odd one for a young woman, which she was at the time. So, start with the nickname, and if you know where it came from, good, but tell us about them and their career.

Carrying over a joke from another thread. I don't own a gun, Patty, and wouldn't know how to shoot one. Well, I guess i could figure it out, but my aim wouldn't be very good and I'd be afraid of the loud bang. Whew. That's a relief. We Canadians are actually a peaceful people and ownership of my firearms was hereditory, and both are registered. They were my father's. Yes, I can use both, but don't and haven't for decades. So, fear not. As for the apparant shift toward Chicago, the majority is still to be heard from. I am still in the Lansing camp and would rather go to a specific one or two day deal, to see the band and meet the Organissimo board members. So, no surprise, I'm still for Lansing. And B-3, with all of us there, Lansing will become much more lively, at least for a couple of days. Hide your booze and women and take the kids off the streets!! Going to Chicago or to St Louis for the events there is another thing, I would think.

Aye.

Well we'd have to have a private concert for y'all because we do not get any gigs in Lansing. We play in Grand Radpis (1 hr. west of Lansing), Ann Arbor (1 hr. east of Lansing), Holland (1 1/2 hrs. from Lansing) etc. But no gigs in Lansing. Lansing is dull. Great place to raise kids (nothing happens)... not a good place for artists. A private concert would be terrific in Lansing, Jim. At Joe's place of course (with guns! ) Hey conn, what's with the "with guns"? I am at a disadvantage, since nobody else has to cross the Northernmost border, from the wilds of Canada, where oddlly enough, everyone doesn't have guns. I, on the other hand do, as I mentioned earlier, so, if you are a moose, or a target, watch out. I like the idea of Organissimo playing, just for us though. I'd be willing to go to Lansing, or wherever that could be arranged, if it could be arranged. It's not uncommon for like-minded folks to congregate somewhere for a specific purpose, as part of a larger travel plan, including the gathering in that larger plan. Like Ed, I have no knowledge of the area at all, so I agree that the spirit of the hang was to hear the band and get together as a group and meet each other.

That makes sense. I know that Miles Davis, and everyone else referred to Navarro as "Fat Girl", with no sense that they were insulting him, which seemed to indicate that Navarro was OK with it and that it was a long-standing nickname. Oh, and "Potato" Valdes' name was actually Carlos "PATATO" Valdes, a legitimate name, that somehow turned into Potato when misunderstood as a real name by non-Latins, as far as I could discover. Does anyone have any better explanation??

"Round" tone? ------------------------------------------------------- As for the plastic bag obsession that seems rampant here, people just seem to expect to get a bag. I've always thought that it has to do with getting something free. Most people will insist on getting something free, if it's not a punch in the nose. Also, the store dicks assume that an item, with no bag is stolen, for some reason. Meanwhile, our landfills are crammed with non-recycleable garbage. "Zutty" still has me puzzled and all I can think of is that it was a childhood nickname. "Fats" Navarro was of generous proportion, but I wonder whether the "Fat Girl" nickname he had was a further playful put-down. Don't know about "Potato" Valdes though.

Ah yes Frau Pat, I'm terribly sorry ---- I must have missed ze discussion about jazz in ze first 15 pages of this exploding head graphic-laden thread zat I reviewed this morning over coffee and chocolate wafers. Would you kindly direct me to the salient points? B) Review the thread. After that, since most of the questions raised have been answered, I thought it would be interesting to take the thread in another direction. Don't you agree?? That is, unless you have a suggestion for discussion? For example, how many blues musicians [i know. I know. This is a jazz site, but the two are closely related] who had "blind" as part of their names were actually blind??? For example, Blind Boy Fuller, Blind Willie McTell, Blind Willie Johnson etc. There were so many, that it seems incomprehensable that there would be so many blind bluesmen. Expanding the nickname thing, there are tons of interesting ones in JAZZ, each one with an explanation of their origins. For example, "Shadow" Wilson. Why "Shadow"? "Dizzy" Gillespie. Why "Dizzy"? Sometimes it's an obvious reference to their instrument, or their personality sometimes not. Why not have a quiz that asks for the genesis of various Jazz musician's nicknames. This would give us a chance to learn about them and about their musical impact on jazz and their career at the same time. How about it??

That's OK, but thank you for asking. German history is only of passing interest to me. At this time of year, you might want to discuss the origins of the tannenbaum though. BTW, my name is PATRICIA, not "PAT". I'm sure that the thread will carry on, even though I am only carrying one end of the massive log that the originator of the thread, my conscience, my nemisis and my editor has entrusted to us. So, let's keep this light, fun and civil.

OK. G-A-U-L-E-I-T-E-R. You're pretty sharp for an old fart. I hope I'm still as eagle-eyed as you when I am 78, as you have often said you are. I believe that the term refers to someone of pure German origins, for the purposes of recruitment in the Reich, the SS, or the German Army of the time. I'm no expert in German history, but it clearly was no compliment. Tough was wordy and quick on his liguistic feet, much like you. People, permit an old fart from France to correct. GAULEITER was the term used in Nazi time for the governors who were ruling the provinces under Third Reich juridiction. And rule they did. Gauleiters were EVIL.

Patty, That's all well and good, and we're all happy for you. NOW....please spell the word correctly and tell us what it means. Is that a difficult task for a sober woman of 64 years of age? DEEP OK. G-A-U-L-E-I-T-E-R. You're pretty sharp for an old fart. I hope I'm still as eagle-eyed as you when I am 78, as you have often said you are. I believe that the term refers to someone of pure German origins, for the purposes of recruitment in the Reich, the SS, or the German Army of the time. I'm no expert in German history, but it clearly was no compliment. Tough was wordy and quick on his liguistic feet, much like you.

Patty, I think you're cloaked in the fog of inebriation. What is the word you're actually trying to state? (Maybe you better team up with a dictionary) DEEP No. If I were enebriated, I would be doing a solo tango on my coffee table instead of posting. I'm not vocabulary shy, just spell-challenged, not an indictable offence, as far as I know. I was actually quoting Tough who was using a term born out of the Nazi era in Germany, referring to the process of voluntary recruitment. I assumed it wasn't a compliment, but it isn't in my dictionary, so that wouldn't have helped. I knew how to spell it, but decided to mis-spell it.

I team up with nobody, especially in a discussion of a sitcom about a fictional bar in Boston, and no offence to Rachel. I'm surprised that you missed my egregious spelling error, later on in my post, in which I spelled gauleiter, G-A-U-L-E-T-E-R. I am cloaked in a fog of shame at my illiteracy. Baggin the Dorsey thing. Your wish is my command. DUH.

P-U-R-T-I-L-L...PURTILL...DUH!! DEEP Sorry. I corrected the it. You corrected the "it"?? WOW!! Now you really have lost me. DEEP WOW. You're lightening fast. I had edited at the same time as you were puzzled and confused about my unedited post. But, you are picking nits, which is fun to do, but frustrating for the pickee.

P-U-R-T-I-L-L...PURTILL...DUH!! DEEP DUH yourself. Sorry. I corrected the spelling. You know I can't spell. I speak quite well though.

I'm not watching "Cheers", so the illegality is out of my realm of expertise. I'm listening to a totally kick-ass version of "My Heart Belongs To Daddy", by Dizzy Gillespie, recorded live instead. However, I think you are right about Maurice Purtill, although I also found mention of Dave Tough as being a drummer with Tommy Dorsey's band in the period in question. So, half marks for you. Tough was a scary, but very interesting character, who went on from Tommy Dorsey's band to play with many other bands, including Herman's in the mid-forties. Apparantly he was given to fits and also a heavy juicer. He was quoted as calling Georg Brunis and Wild Bill Davidson "a clown and a gauleiter", respectively. In 1948 he had just completed a long term with Muggsy Spanier and he fell, while drunk, cracking his skull and checking out to Vermont in December of 1948 at forty years old. Too bad. Apparantly he was a hell-damner of a drummer.

Drat. I guess that whoever it was had a really short sojourn with Tommy Dorsey then, since Rich left in '41, I believe and Krupa became a regular member, in 1943, after guesting with the band, several times in the interim. Curious, that there I could find no mention of anyone who took the drum duties regularly until Krupa was hired on. Given what you said about Purtill being the drummer in the film, "Girl Crazy", he certainly seems to be a good candidate.

From what I can find out about the Tommy Dorsey band's drummer in 1942, Gene Krupa guested many times, after Rich left, but didn't become a regular member until 1943. So, the band seemed fairly fluid, ebbing and flowing, with many guest musicians, Krupa being the best known. In 1953 the brothers Tommy and Jimmy combined their efforts, until tragedy struck and Tommy choked to death in his sleep in 1956.

AND we're so poll-rules-abiding that everyone who voted [including me, for Lansing] only voted once. As for St Louis being more likely, because it's bigger, we can only take up so much space, no matter where it is. Errr, Patty, the board software only allows us to vote once. I would have voted a dozen times for Lansing if I could get away with it. If you can still vote on your screen, then YOU HAVEN'T VOTED YET, Patty!! You know, I didn't try to vote more than once, because I am a poll-rules-abiding poster. I'm assuming that you know for other reasons??

AND we're so poll-rules-abiding that everyone who voted [including me, for Lansing] only voted once. As for St Louis being more likely, because it's bigger, we can only take up so much space, no matter where it is.

August in Chicago, assuming that Organissimo gets the gig would be good for me. On checking my atlas [yes, I do have one], I see that it is just below Manitoba, which is two provinces over from where I am. I'm looking at around 1500 miles or so. I'm not sure what the logistics are, airwise, from here to Chicago. Usually they have us flying all over hell's half acre, making connections, increasing the chances of this humble scribe wandering forever in some airport. But, that would happen no matter where this thing ends up being held. So, assuming that Organissimo is successful in the Chicago bid, we're looking at late August?? As for the heat, don't be such a wuss. There are worse things to be than too warm, believe me. If they, God forbid, [as my grandmother used to say] don't get the gig, is there a tentative Plan B??

Joe, you have to understand that I had barely heard of Lansing, before I started posting on this board. Lansing sounds a lot like Calgary, except for the blues part. We have sports and country bars and clubs, out the ying-yang and maybe a half-dozen or so clubs which feature jazz [now that Kaos closed] and that's only once a week or so. VERY depressing for me, as you might guess. There are some local jazz musicians and singers who interested me and I am gradually composing a photo essay of them, performing, using available light, which is slow going, but gettin' there. So, whatever is possible from your end, with regard to what form this hang will take would be terrific. You're right. Meeting the posters is the main thing and I have been known to drink the odd beer, although my tipple is medium priced wine, for medicinal purposes of course. I will have to pass on the chasing chicks aspect, for obvious reasons. Creole Gallery sounds like a great starting point. We will make this happen because it IS a good idea.

Or Calgary in July when there is a great Jazz Festival?? I was interested in seeing Lansing because it is the home of Organissimo. If the band doesn't want us to hear them play, have the hang on a non-gig day. I understand the feeling that they are not performing bears.

Thanks Dan, I was beginning to wonder if I had missed something... Don't get me wrong, I love seeing board members in the audience at a gig, but working a performance into the proposed hang adds a whole new layer of logistics to deal with. Joe, I understand what you mean about the hang not being a busman's holiday. I suppose it could be, from your standpoint, like a doctor being asked for a diagnosis of somebody's skinrash, or a lawyer being asked for a legal opinion at a social gathering. I know that I'm a little annoyed when attending events where I'm automatically assumed to be the one that immortalizes the event on film, just because I'm there. I guess that some of us were just interested in seeing the band in it's natural habitat. Presumptuous, perhaps. Are you saying that Organissimo wouldn't be interested in showing the posters who attend the hang what they are about, musically???