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mandrill

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Posts posted by mandrill

  1. How do you define genius , as it pertains to jazz?

    in Artists

    Posted

    2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

    Oh I think Ware is great, no question about that.

    Shipp is a genius too.

    Wynton is not.

    Poor Wynton. Can't catch a break.

    As for Shipp- I was listening to him playing on Third Ear Recitation and thought of Ravel of all things. Has anyone heard any of The Art Of Perelman-Shipp series issued by Leo? Here is an interesting overview.

    https://www.allaboutjazz.com/ivo-perelman-matthew-shipp-and-the-buddha-walk-in-to-a-bar-ivo-perelman-matthew-shipp-by-mark-corroto.php

    I think the author has a valid point whether it is worth listening to pure improvisational recordings more than once.

  2. Ethan Iverson on Thelonious Monk in the New Yorker

    in Jazz In Print - Periodicals, Books, Newspapers, etc...

    Posted

    Well put and eloquent article, if not of particularly great depth (but it’s written for New Yorker, not Downbeat). I enjoy reading Iverson’s  “Do The Math” blog. As a scholar and disseminator of jazz tradition knowledge he is everything Wynton Marsalis is not.

    Ethan Iverson was a curator of Monk@100 celebration organized by Duke Performances in Durham, NC, that concluded yesterday. There were essentially two parts- J.D. Allen Trio with various guests the first week and Ethan Iverson Trio w/ Dave Williams on bass & Victor Lewis on drums with a guest saxophonist  the second. In between there was two afternoons of free performances where four pianists covered the whole Monk's catalog, both solo and in duets.

    I attended the last show yesterday, were the sax player was Ravi Coltrane. It was a fairly orthodox interpretation of Monk’s Quartet from the 60’s, and enjoyable for what it was. Ethan Iverson gave a little introduction before each number and played Crepuscule with Nellie solo for the encore. The crowd was very enthusiastic.

    I also saw JD Allen Trio with Dave Douglas the week before and was rather disappointed, as they choose to use Monk’s music as blowing vehicles of sorts, raising temperature considerably but overcooking that particular goose in the process. Dave Douglas especially seemed to be out of Monk’s idiom (granted, he mentions in one of his interviews that he had little use for Monk’s music until fairly recently).

  6. Joe Lovano - General discussion

    in Artists

    Posted

    On 6/16/2015 at 6:37 AM, Scott Dolan said:

    The only Lovano I own to this point is his excellent Quartets: Live at the Village Vanguard. The first disc with the Ornette-like piano-less quartet is the standout, but both discs are really, really good.

    That's my favorite album by Lovano- by far. I like his work with Paul Motian groups and on Steve Kuhn Coltrane tribute, and live album of duets with Hank Jones can be a pleasant late evening music, but most of his own projects leave me cold, for no discernible reason.

  7. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted · Edited by mandrill

    4 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

    The digital version of Downbeat magazine just hit my Inbox. Fan poll results for Hall Of Fame - Wynton Marsalis is in (1062 votes).

    And Hank Mobley still only got 618 votes. Still bums me out.

    Doesn't surprise me at the least. Wynton is much more of a household name than Hank. With all the talk about Mobley on this and few similar forums (there aren't many), he'd still fit the definition of a cult artist- which is really puzzling, providing accessibility of his music and the fact that (including Mosaic set) pretty much his whole catalog is still in print. I just got Mosaic last week and thoroughly enjoy it.

    5 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

    The Peach Orchard is one of the best Free Jazz albums of the last two decades.

    Wholeheartedly agree.

  9. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted · Edited by mandrill

    22 hours ago, Pim said:

     And Elvin Jones and Guillermo Brown could not differ more from each other. Elvin Jones keeps a tight rhythm and strong pulse, while Brown floats more on the music itself. So the influence is there but they are not two of the same kind.

     

    Providing you're still describing Godspelized, the drummer there is Susie Ibarra- a very different drummer from Elvin Jones indeed, really more of a percussionist than a drummer. As other great examples of her work, I'd highly recommend her Radiance album- trio w/ Charles Burnham on violin and Cooper-Moore on piano, and "Peach Orchard" of William Parker's In Order to Survive quartet.

  10. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Steve Reynolds said:

     However he is really more out of Rollins than Ayler and certainly the Coltrane influence is less than many/most of his contemporaries.

     

     

    I tend to agree with that assessment of Ware's sound, especially when one listens to his albums from 90's on DIW.

  11. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

    I'm not sure how to respond to someone who thinks David S. Ware, for example, sounds nothing like 60's Free Jazz. That's a mind-boggling statement. 

    Personally, I've shifted over to the European-style Free Improvisation BECAUSE I had grown tired of hearing the same old thing. Ware is great, but I wanted to find something new. 

    Ware, while rooted in 60's free jazz tradition, sounds very different from, say, late Coltrane or Pharoah or Shepp- neither he was trying to emulate any one of them. He learned the language and moved it into new, expanded territory. But to say one can't trace his sound to that time is, frankly, a puzzling statement.

    I'd take Ware over any of his counterparts from Euro Free improv just for sheer joy of listening for his flights, but, obviously, de gustibus non est disputandum.

  12. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted

    3 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

    yes, but his music has evolved heavily -- HEAVILY -- since then and it is hard to really put it into the same box.

    You just proved my point- their music has evolved from their base of 60's free jazz to something fairly unique, while Wynton's has not and rather regressed.

    Nowadays he's more like a (self?)-appointed CEO of Jazz Inc (Lincoln Center, Dizzy Coca Cola, etc.). As a musician worthy attention to the music he's making, imho he can be safely discarded at this point.

  13. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted · Edited by mandrill

    7 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

    I dunno, I've heard very little contemporary music that recalls in any way the Free Jazz of the '60s. 

    The blowing sessions in that mold that I have seen performed by younger (slightly) players have not been all that interesting. 

    Almost everything by William Parker, David S. Ware (alas, he's not with us anymore), Tim Berne, Joe McPhee- those are just some major names i'm getting from the top of my head- I can list many more. Obviously, the music has evolved and none of those sounds like an (almost) perfect copy of AEC or Ayler or Coleman and late Coltrane bands but you can still trace the lineage. And most of their music don't fall into free-for-all blowing sessions category.

    And then there are other artists who are pushing jazz in some interesting, if not exactly new, directions. Just a few examples:

    Jaimeo Brown- Transcendence (Motema)

    Eric Hofbauer Quartet- Prehistoric Jazz, Vol 1 & 2

    Matana Roberts- Coin Coin Series.

    Then there are major stylists on their instruments like Dave Douglas, Bryan Lynch, Avishai Cohen (trumpet), JD Allen (sax), Jason Moran (piano), etc.

    All of this apparently flying below (or rather above) Wynton's radar, while he's busy rehashing classics from jazz "golden age" and with some racial bias to boot.

     

     

  14. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

    That said, if one only hears Black Codes (From The Undergroud), and the Village Vaguard box, I could say you're good as far as Wynton goes. 

    Kind of telling that for an artist who's been in a forefront of jazz for 30+ years, his best work is something he's done in the very beginning of his career. But even those albums are nothing special or innovating in a wider view- just an (almost) perfect copy of Miles 2nd quintet sound.

  15. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted · Edited by mandrill

    7 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

    So are all artists that play Bebop simply imitators or museum curators? 

    How about those who still play 60's-style Free Jazz? 

    Just wondering, because I never hear them disparaged similarly. 

    Frankly, I have little respect for all those late Coltrane & Ayler wannabes either. And I'd agree with you that for every genuine practitioner and developer of that style (David S. Ware, Joe McPhee, William Parker, Dennis Gonzalez, etc.) there are countless imitators, especially in Europe. And someone like Ken Vandermark would probably fit a definition of a curator in a Museum of Free Jazz, even that he's driven by the best intentions and the genuine love of that music.  

    But:

    1. That style of jazz is rather a fringe movement (many of current practitioners won't even consider it jazz and rather use "free improvisation" for the lack of better term). The reason those folks are not disparaged similarly is because they are not in a forefront, like Marsalis and not getting anywhere near his access to money and resources needed to grow and promote this music. Neither they have a mission to make jazz "great again" by looking at the past only.

    2. To the best of my knowledge, none of those people disparage any other/older styles of jazz (unlike Marsalis, who at some point was openly hostile and made disparaging remarks about free jazz, fusion, etc., to make all those styles sound illegitimate in the jazz canon), they just for one reason or another choose to play in a different idiom.

     

    3 hours ago, Dmitry said:

    Bwahaha. Like! 

    I suspect that there are musicians proper, i.e. those that can carry a tune,  and those individuals who use the sounds they produce out of musical instruments to "express themselves", and are otherwise incapable of playing actual music, or can play on rudimentary level. 

     

    You be the judge. That's the closest I could find to Mats Gustafsson playing "straight ahead" jazz.

     

  16. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted · Edited by mandrill

    On 3/10/2007 at 7:11 PM, Alexander said:

     

     

     

    That's what I meant. He *used* to emulate mid-60s Miles, but as the 80s passed into the 90s and the 90s approached the millennium, Wynton grew ever more conservative. For a while there he was trying to make EVERYTHING sound like a "Hot Fives" recording (even Monk). Lately, as I said, he's taken Ellington has his model. Not saying there's anything wrong with liking what you like, but Wynton's been pointing ever further backwards for a long time. That's what I like about his last several albums: He seems to have discovered that "now" is what counts, so he's been making music that sounds...I don't know. I don't want to use the word "timeless," because it isn't, but I guess I mean that it doesn't sound 50 years old. 50 years old ON PURPOSE, that is.

    I think of it all as a shop, where Wynton and his disciples are specializing in painting very good copies of old masters paintings, for some weird reason thinking that's exactly what humanity needs. Anything beyond impressionists is anathema to them. They started emulating Renoir and Monet, but eventually that appeared too modern for them, so they went back in time and started making (almost) perfect copies of Dutch Masters and now trying at Caravaggio and Raphael. If market is right, they may even adjust their philosophy and start making copies of Picasso- (almost) perfect- but copies nevertheless.

    That is not what jazz is about though. So, his (arguably) impressive technical chops aside, he's always been just an imitator and very likely will remain as such. A curator and exhibit maker of expensive Madame Tussaud Jazz Museum.

  17. Wynton Marsalis

    in Artists

    Posted · Edited by mandrill

     

    On 10/12/2017 at 0:42 PM, Dmitry said:

     and had some general commentary on the blues ["not the kind the long-haired white people from England played"].

    Muddy Waters would like to disagree. But maybe those boys from England weren't white enough to get it right.

     

  20. Favorite Records by Living Pianists Since 2000

    in Miscellaneous Music

    Posted

    Abdullah Ibrahim- African Magic (Enja, 2002)

    Randy Weston- Ancient Future (Mutable, 2002)

    Stefano Bollani- Joy in Spite of Everything (ECM, 2014)

    Jason Moran- Black Stars (Blue Note, 2001)

    Yelena Eckemoff- Forget-Me-Not (L&H, 2011)

    Junko Moriya Orchestra- Groovin’ Forvard  (Spice of Life 2009)

    Mike LeDonne - Speak (Cellar Live, 2013)

    Jessica Williams- Live at Yoshi’s (MAXJAZZ, 2004)

    Jessica Williams- Billy's Theme: A Tribute to Dr. Billy Taylor (Origin, 2006)

    Nik Bartsch- Ronin Live (ECM, 2011)

    I assume it's too late for Hod O'Brien and Gery Allen to be on this list, otherwise:

    Hod O'Brien- Live at Blues Alley- Vol 1-3 (Reservoir, 2005)

    Gery Allen- Grand River Crossings (Motown & Motor City Inspirations) (Motema, 2013)

  23. Arthur Blythe R.I.P.

    in Artists

    Posted

    On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 9:52 PM, mjzee said:

    Per Wikipedia, "The Grip" (on India Navigation) was recorded and released before "Bush Baby."  

    What weird is they say "In The Tradition" was released before "Lenox Avenue Breakdown."  I seem to recall Lenox being released first.

    You are correct. The live concert that was released as two LPs The Grip & Metamorphosis (later combined on one CD) was recorded in October of 1977, while Bush Baby, being his first studio session, recorded in December of that year.

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