fasstrack

Don't get me started on Richard Pryor. Please. I'll be up all night and the friendly chaps with the white coats will be summoned. 'We are gathered heeeyah'.....................

I met Carter, too----by the cube by St. Mark's place, both of us listening to Vincent Herring as a kid. That was where he played and made a name. Carter sat in, I think. Real nice cat. Sad that he died so far from home. In Poland, I think. \ I really did like Woody's band. I heard them in the earliest 80s, the first time I heard Mulgrew Miller. He played 'Bye Bye Blackbird' by playing the melody on the last A up a b5, so it sounded Lydian. Carter was probably in that band. I remember Steve Turre being there for sure. I saw Woody twice, once w/Carter & once with Turre. Not sure if they ever toured w/Woody at the same time or not. That would have been interesting to hear if they had, that book scored for three horns live. Speaking of three horn scoring, I heard the master, Benny Golson, around 6 weeks ago. I had to hear what was on his mind and it was the most beautiful writing, on a variety of themes and 'topics', just delicate and thrill to hear with those great voicings of his. The solos almost didn't matter---or actually, no, he gave them something to play about. Benny sounds great playing, too.

I liked Ajaye in Car Wash too. He was a jilted boyfriend trying to get his woman back. With the white Disco bellbottoms and an Afro the size of a small nation..

I met Carter, too----by the cube by St. Mark's place, both of us listening to Vincent Herring as a kid. That was where he played and made a name. Carter sat in, I think. Real nice cat. Sad that he died so far from home. In Poland, I think. \ I really did like Woody's band. I heard them in the earliest 80s, the first time I heard Mulgrew Miller. He played 'Bye Bye Blackbird' by playing the melody on the last A up a b5, so it sounded Lydian. Carter was probably in that band. I remember Steve Turre being there for sure.

He's a funny MF. I remember his bit about the 'band' on The People's Court' 'Damn, man, like I'm glad you got me the gig and stuff, but like don't we ever get to do snything else but: Da dap (long pause) Da dap............................

Sorry, but I don´t agree to that. In my opinion, jazz lost audience because the true personalities left us. Look, when I used to go out and see all those great musicians play, we all knew something about their stage behaviour. Some of them, well they had a reputation of being arrogant, like Miles (who anyway didn´t have to smile to the audience) or Freddie Hubbard (I remember his remark to the audience during a concert in Austria, after bursting out some of his trade mark high notes: "jive assed muthaf....."), others maybe were just shy people like Monk or Bud (they were not supposed to make speeches to the audience, even if Bud ....during a rare mood of humour once ...after a stunning set imitated Pee Wee Marquet´s voice saying in that high pitched voice " Now ladies and gentleman, how about a great big hand for the Amazing Bud Powell" ), Or Mingus, oh boy......! Others had that entertainer-qualities like Diz, Blakey or Johnny Griffin. Look, those where people they used to write books about and still do. When going out and hearing somebody of that caliber for the first time, we had done our lessons, let´s say we knew something about the artist and his live, his attitudes and we loved them for the way they behaved, for being themselves, and they gave it all to the audience thru the music. Now could you imagine go out to a show and expect the same thing (living legends) if it´s about all them Diana Kralls, Jamie Cullums etc.? By the way: The Woody Shaw I used to see was a very kind and good educated person with a beautiful deep speaking voice, all I can say is that he was not so kind to himself...... I hope you're not one of these people who think entertaining people is a drag. Probably not, I'm sure. IMO Entertainment along with quality music and cutting down the boring self-absorption among players is the only hope we have (plus going into the schools). I happen to think Wynton Marsalis is a a great man for all he's doing. He could've said, 'well I got the money and the glory. Fuck it'. Instead he prostelytizes for jazz and has great programs for kids. I agree that the personalities have left us. It's more cookie-cutter now. But I really appreciate people like Bill Charlap, who was tremendous even at 19, being a class act and lovingly presenting the American Song Book. A lot of people snicker and call guys like Bill or Wynton conservative---but you must realize how little people know about their own culture here. If everyone knew about Duke, etc., I would say, OK, Wynton (and Stanley) you're not necessary, give it a rest. But it is, sad to say, necessary, and I am personally very grateful to have these guys talking about these people and playing their music. Musicians have a responsibility, I believe, to get over themselves and realize they wouold have no sustenance without an audience. Does that mean 'play down' and cater? Hell no. Does it mean try to reach people a bit and realize it's not only about us? Hell yes. We're in this thing together and jazz---actually live music period----is in great peril if we don't start reaching out and changing atgtitudes.

Why? Because we like you....

That sounds about right. That's the way it went down with me. I was 28. Sorry, but he was a prick, and I've heard stories similar to mine. He fucked with Branford Marsalis too, totally dissed him---and Branford was a 'somebody' (Woody called me a 'nobody', to which I looked him in the eye and replied 'everybody's a somebody'). I like his music too, but there's no excuse for his behavior. Plenty of people go through as bad or worse and smell like a rose. People like that---egomaniacs---are a big reason jazz lost its audience. Maybe I'm screwed up, but it's hard for me to like someone's music if I know them to be a quantifiable asshole. I mean, we're only human, and at least in my case I will look for excuses to dislike the music if treated jive. But I do like Woody's playing, especially his grasp of 20th century harmony. It gave his lines and his writing a different kind of edge. I guess I like Ride of the Valkerys too............. It's funny, someone brought up Tom Harrell. Tom is the sweetest, most positive person you'd ever want to meet. I know this from personal experience. He has a disorder and deals with it and has been blessed with a wonderful mate who makes his life a lot easier. Tom and Angela are great people and Tom is a great artist. He actually was influenced by Woody earlier on, but really his playing changed a lot, especially after he got into flugel more. Just a beautiful player and person---and misunderstood by people that have little on their minds but talk as if they know something. Wynton Marsalis has a reputation for arrogance and people talk loads of shit about him too. I did myself. But I met Wynton twice and he was totally cool. I just spoke to him about something the other day and he couldn't have been nicer. I wish I had nicer things to say about Woody. If he would've been nicer I would. But the lesson I learned there was don't fuck with out people. Yiu can't always hang out. Sometimes you have to back off and just listen to the music. I will only comment that when I was young, I would talk in a gushing way to jazz musicians who have no reported problems. Some of them were gracious and some were very curt. It did not seem to be due to any drug or other problems they had. I can now understand that they viewed me as a pest, basically, and some did not pretend to be cordial. Woody may have just grown tired of it. I was there and I don't buy it. Sorry.

Maybe he was a little of each. I only had the one experience, and he was on a downhill trajectory of which we all know how it ended. I love his music, too, BTW, glad we got to play once, and am sorry he was in such bad shape when I ran into him. Re this 'genius' bit: Don't know if he was a genius. Depends on one's definition, I suppose. The only one I encountered in my life as a professional to date was Jaki Byard. He was really ahead of the curve in his thinking and I saw him in action as a band member for 1 and 1/2 years. Nothing short of brilliant, I am convinced. I guess Tom Harrell probably is one, I met him a few times and never worked with him, but I know what he can do, and he probably does qualify. To hear Phil Woods tell it, there's no question. Joe Cohn has amazing ears and is a thrilling improvisor and can put thirds under a fast complicated melody he's hearing for the first time. He can play back what you just played, the exact voicings. Every musician in the know in NY knows what he can do, myself included. Does this make him a genius? Not sure. Woody Shaw was a powerfully creative and vital musician. And he was very advanced at a young age. Isn't that enough? I didn't want to start a discussion of "genius" actually... and in fact I don't mind, as it is - as you say - a very difficult thing to define. And certainly Woody is enough for me! More than enough, really, he was a terrific musician and his music continues to enrich my life! (As for Harrell, the night I caught him live in 2006 was sort of hard to take... but in between he made some stunning music - it was really like him struggling his demons in front of an audience, having trouble navigating through his own (marvellous!) themes, but as soon as they played something simpler (a few standards), he absolutely shined and made his band look like schoolboys in comparison, he really went places! A fascinating musician, to say the very least!) I don't understand Harrell to have "demons", other than the schizophrenia which he has talked about in several printed interviews. That is a medical illness, not a problem like bad behavior or self-induced drug addiction. One time when I saw him live, it appeared to me that he was about to have a seizure, and had taken some strong neurologic medication. He was shaking and trembling in the same way that I have observed other epileptic people before a grand mal seizure, and other people with serious neurologic illnesses and disorders. Please. There's nothing wrong with Tom, plenty wrong with people's perception of him. Try playing music that beautiful, then we'll talk. The world better get its shit tigether........ I think that he is a great musician. I was defending him. He does not have "demons", he has an illness. My son and the other people in my son's day services facility have similiar illnesses. I have spent a lot of time with people with severe neurologic disorders. Harrell is amazing to me, to have done what he has done, when he has shown some of the physical characteristics of people with very severe disabilities. To be able to create and play as he has--he has my utmost admiration. I think I have some understanding of what he has to overcome to create and play. It's a lot. Sorry to overreact, man. I've been going through some stuff of my own lately. I do think the world, especially America, needs to get its shit together and honor its resources like Tom.

I saw a trilogy of plays Shepp wrote at Brooklyn College in 1970 and remember hearing him play live around that time. I didn't know enough to judge it and have long since forgotten what it sounded like. I also heard an interview that impressed me. My friend Burt Eckoff played in his band in the late 70s and dug it. I think he has a hell of a mind and a lot of energy. One drag: he used my friend, the late C. Sharpe on a record date and profiled over his solo. C's wife China was singing "I Got it Bad' and to my knowledge it was the only recording this beautiful couple made together. (Two of my all-time favorite people). The record was called "Poem for Losers' or something like that. I'm glad Archie gave them a shot, but he kept playing over C's solo to really annoying effect. C. hardly recorded and this didn't exactly help. I do dig Shepp, though, among that type player. I've heard him sound great and heard cats put him down unfairly.

That sounds about right. That's the way it went down with me. I was 28. Sorry, but he was a prick, and I've heard stories similar to mine. He fucked with Branford Marsalis too, totally dissed him---and Branford was a 'somebody' (Woody called me a 'nobody', to which I looked him in the eye and replied 'everybody's a somebody'). I like his music too, but there's no excuse for his behavior. Plenty of people go through as bad or worse and smell like a rose. People like that---egomaniacs---are a big reason jazz lost its audience. Maybe I'm screwed up, but it's hard for me to like someone's music if I know them to be a quantifiable asshole. I mean, we're only human, and at least in my case I will look for excuses to dislike the music if treated jive. But I do like Woody's playing, especially his grasp of 20th century harmony. It gave his lines and his writing a different kind of edge. I guess I like Ride of the Valkerys too............. It's funny, someone brought up Tom Harrell. Tom is the sweetest, most positive person you'd ever want to meet. I know this from personal experience. He has a disorder and deals with it and has been blessed with a wonderful mate who makes his life a lot easier. Tom and Angela are great people and Tom is a great artist. He actually was influenced by Woody earlier on, but really his playing changed a lot, especially after he got into flugel more. Just a beautiful player and person---and misunderstood by people that have little on their minds but talk as if they know something. Wynton Marsalis has a reputation for arrogance and people talk loads of shit about him too. I did myself. But I met Wynton twice and he was totally cool. I just spoke to him about something the other day and he couldn't have been nicer. I wish I had nicer things to say about Woody. If he would've been nicer I would. But the lesson I learned there was don't fuck with out people. Yiu can't always hang out. Sometimes you have to back off and just listen to the music.

Maybe he was a little of each. I only had the one experience, and he was on a downhill trajectory of which we all know how it ended. I love his music, too, BTW, glad we got to play once, and am sorry he was in such bad shape when I ran into him. Re this 'genius' bit: Don't know if he was a genius. Depends on one's definition, I suppose. The only one I encountered in my life as a professional to date was Jaki Byard. He was really ahead of the curve in his thinking and I saw him in action as a band member for 1 and 1/2 years. Nothing short of brilliant, I am convinced. I guess Tom Harrell probably is one, I met him a few times and never worked with him, but I know what he can do, and he probably does qualify. To hear Phil Woods tell it, there's no question. Joe Cohn has amazing ears and is a thrilling improvisor and can put thirds under a fast complicated melody he's hearing for the first time. He can play back what you just played, the exact voicings. Every musician in the know in NY knows what he can do, myself included. Does this make him a genius? Not sure. Woody Shaw was a powerfully creative and vital musician. And he was very advanced at a young age. Isn't that enough? I didn't want to start a discussion of "genius" actually... and in fact I don't mind, as it is - as you say - a very difficult thing to define. And certainly Woody is enough for me! More than enough, really, he was a terrific musician and his music continues to enrich my life! (As for Harrell, the night I caught him live in 2006 was sort of hard to take... but in between he made some stunning music - it was really like him struggling his demons in front of an audience, having trouble navigating through his own (marvellous!) themes, but as soon as they played something simpler (a few standards), he absolutely shined and made his band look like schoolboys in comparison, he really went places! A fascinating musician, to say the very least!) I don't understand Harrell to have "demons", other than the schizophrenia which he has talked about in several printed interviews. That is a medical illness, not a problem like bad behavior or self-induced drug addiction. One time when I saw him live, it appeared to me that he was about to have a seizure, and had taken some strong neurologic medication. He was shaking and trembling in the same way that I have observed other epileptic people before a grand mal seizure, and other people with serious neurologic illnesses and disorders. Please. There's nothing wrong with Tom, plenty wrong with people's perception of him. Try playing music that beautiful, then we'll talk. The world better get its shit tigether........

Allen...... I started to crack up reading this. But I think you shudda stopped at ¨I love you guys..... Kinda like a funny parody in the 70s in National Lampoon called Jimmy the Weasel explains life and how to get laid....or something. They´re buttering someone up to catch him off guard so they can whack him. They ´take him out, get him drunk on his ass, introduce him to a couple of celebrities....maybe even Frank. He introduces us to his daughter. ¨Ï love you guys¨, he says. We slip the f(/)ing rope around his neck. One, two, three it goes, a cakewalk....

I was around when said history was happening, being 19 in the pivotal year of 1959 with two years of jazz listening behind me and an enthusiasm for Bird, Miles and Monk already in place. I recall that jazzers found Coltrane a good deal more accessible than Ornette, as they could hear Coltrane working record-by-record through various approaches to reach his final, perhaps most difficult style, whereas Ornette arrived fully matured, so to speak. I first heard them (not together!) in the first half of 1959 on a weekly half-hour radio show called Jamboree Jazz Time broadcast by Radio Luxembourg. The first Coltrane I heard was "Bakai" (which, curiously, I've never heard since) and which I found different, exciting and exotic, but in no way difficult or unacceptable. The following year I heard both Coltrane and Adderley playing"sheets of sound" on Milestones and complained to fellow student Jack Massarik (later to be jazz correspondent of the London Evening Standard) about Miles hiring such tasteless players. "Things have to move on, man," he wisely replied and within months I was buying and digging a copy of Giant Steps. When the classic Coltrane quartet emerged, it had a hit with "My Favorite Things" and mass appeal among jazz fans. When I first heard Ornette - and it was probably a track from Something Else - I found it unquestionably Parkerish, but thought it crazy, as if the rulebook had been thrown away. "Is this how Bird sounded in Camarillo?" I mused. But a couple of years later I was buying Ornette, starting with This Is Our Music. Perhaps more typical was a comment from a friend on the Coleman Quartet: "Fabulous rhythm section, but I wouldn't give tuppence for the other two"! I seem to recall him buying loads of the then fashionable bossa nova albums, which I suppose figures! Tuppence? Tuppence?

I think Belgians must have soul. Percy France told me a funny story about Jimmy Woode, something about he couldn´t pay his hotel bill and, though everyone loved him, he had to be thrown out of his room finally. The next day someone saw him sleeping in the lobby.

Narcissistic displays of me-ness cut across stylistic boundaries, and IMO possibly is one of the main reasons jazz has lost so much of its audience. Of course other factors are at play, but when one has little to begin with, kicking oneself in the ass doesn't help much....... I actually admire free players in a way---socially if not always musically. Socially in the same way I admire the courage of women who play jazz and catch hell, or, outside of music, gays, general outsiders, people of color in this fahkaktah, prejudiced society. Anyone who gets rained on for not being mainstream gets my profound sympathy. We are intolerant and that sucks. (Though that doesn't mean that being in one of those groups gives one an instant pass, forgiveness of various transgressions, or the right to play off being a downtrodden minority. It does mean everyone should have the same chance----even if that chance is only to be visible enough to be rejected. Barry Harris used to always say about the lack of exposure of jazz in the media 'man, they don't even give people a chance not to like us.......' ) What I don't like, in music, service, anything, and don't see why I should tolerate, is incompetence. The offense is often accompanied, and worsened, by either ignorance of one's own lameness, arrogance----or worse, still, apathy about it. Everyone makes mistakes and f%%s up---and should be cut some slack for being human. When it's a way of life, and in music to me it means not knowing tunes or playing them according to Coltrane's version (rather than going to the composer---the source), suspect time that makes the night long, no ensemble skills, and---what could ever be worse---bad or non-existent listening----I say off with the heads of incompetents. I have no doubt 'out' players have their own pet peeves. They should, if they're to be taken seriously. It has nothing to do with style but everything to do with lameness. Of course, these things never happen on my gigs. I swear. To tie this meandering post up and get waaaay back to the original point, it's good Ornette had his champions way back when. Imagine if someone truly against the grain came on the scene now.....I would have to hope they married well........... Finally: FWIW: put me down for hearing Bakida Carroll for the first time this past week and really digging the compositions and playing. He has a foundation and goes from there....Same for Muhal Richard Abrams. These guys are serious, not BSers like, say, Jameel Moondoc.

One final comment from me. I reached out personally and we're all ready to move on. I leave this open only in hopes some good will come out of it. If this turns into a tit-for-tatorama between various people with beefs you (the universal)are going to make me very disappointed----not to mentioned a bit depressed.............. 'uh, people....can we get along?'.............................

I had my first experience and it wasn't pleasant. I won't say who or what, but someone said 'you don't know shit about so-and-so'. Maybe it was in the heat of the moment and probably he ain't a bad guy. Hell, he may even have been right. But he went wrong going personal. It's childish IMO, and unneccesary. I wrote something back in anger, then deleted it only to be called 'chicken' (schoolyard taunt?) by the guy, who I saw right then and there was 'cruisin' for a bruisin'. No, genius: I didn't want to go there and regretted responding in anger. Get it? I told him I would not succumb to stupidity and that still stands. I understand there is an ignore device, and I guess I'll use it. It's a drag to have to, though. You know? Please don't ask me to cite chapter, thread, and verse. We're all adults here, right? I'm putting this out and movin' on. I won't even post again on this thread. If anyone wants to communicate PM or email me on this. Here's the thing: I quit Internet groups over a couple of negative incidents that happened offline involving people met online. I don't claim that I was (or am) an angel. I don't, however, have the time for negativity and will not be involved in stupidity. I am a professional musician of intense personality and strong opinions. Debate is at times neccesary and it is American and democratic. If discussions do get heated, though, I prefer civility or I will be gone in a heartbeat. I've mixed it up at times with Allen Lowe and Larry Kart, but if I didn't respect their intellects and passion I would not even bother. They mixed it back, but always respectfully, without 9-year-old name calling. If someone doesn't like something I write or me they also don't have to answer. I don't need that much attention, believe me. I like this community b/c it mostly is frequented by knowledgeable jazz players, fans, and general thinkers. I've made friends and hung out with Lazaro Vega and Paul Secor. They are great guys. I've enjoyed corresponding with others, including Mr. Albertson, who I enjoyed years ago as a host locally on WBAI. I want to make friends here, as I've done through music my entire life and intent do keep on doing. I will stay away from bullshit here, when it regretfully occurs. (It seems rare, a good thing). Simple respect. Attack the statement, and support yours with intelligent input, NOT the person. We're not 6-year olds.

In that 2nd photo she looks like the cat that swallowed the canary. I think there is more to this story than is revealed here. I thought 'swallowing the canary' was what she got the grand for....................

Just don't, er, bite off more than you can chew, Chris

Cool. Thank you. That would make sense. Some good players there..............

Guess Allen really does play.......he knows what's up and had damn good timing with that line.

His next pitch should be the resurrection of his career. Maybe a power tour with Marv Alpert? They could have biting matches with the audience like Andy Kaufman...............

I see he worked with Django at the end. Must've been the dates where he played electric: maligned, and unfairly so IMO, as as they are very nice. I'll listen for vibes next time. Anyone know if he worked with Rene Thomas? Must've, it's a small community over there.