fasstrack

I heard a couple of 'em dug it so much they got together and pissed on cotton...

Jesus. We made friends 3 years ago when Chris Byars brought him out for some gigs. They reassembled the Tentet. After we jammed at Fat Cat-and he sounded great and spry as a teenager-I drove out to his house way out on the Island. What an adventure. I'll tell the story sometime, it's a hilarious classic-as was he. The main thing that impressed me about Teddy was the way he got through life-taking or leaving the music biz on his own terms. This was evidenced by the long sailboat parked at the far right driueway of house that I spied the wintry day in 2009 I was over. What a character. What a man. What a life! Bye bye, Teddy. And ahoy.

Skinny Bergen! It was so long ago. Nice guy, good player. Anyone Percy got would have to be, assuming he put the band together for Heller (the owner). But I can't assume. I remember being worried for the guy b/c Jones had been so cold. Then he was sitting in the back at a booth w/some Get Whitey types who were kissing his ass over him putting Carisi down. They were laughing. What a JAMF The Great Papa Jo Jones was that night. But he was also old, frail, and sick. He looked terrible, drawn and gaunt-so I should have 'rachmonis' too. So this Skinny, he had it nailed. I mentioned to him how Jo came in wrong, then trashed the band. 'He has a lot of image to protect'. Then he waved his hand to close the discussion. A good man for sure.

Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point... Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point... Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point... Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point... Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point... Wow. I'm really sorry. I kept getting the message Document too large for memory-but it was sent and received anyway. Well I did get to make my point...my point...my point...

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root. Yeah. Start out in root position, like 1 7 3, invert to 3 7 1 on the next 2 beats depending on the tempo. Ideally it's good to omit or de-stress the root since the bass has it. In fact I found out from James Chirillo, who really knows this stuff, that Freddie Green got all that fatness with 2 note chords! After I picked my face up off the floor it made sense. I guess he left out the root.

I worked through this with Barry himself. He and Milt sounded great on the companion recording. But we both agreed that the stuff was too fancy to be practical. The best and most useful thing Barry showed me was the 3-note bass string voicings for 4/4 comping. Amazing but I just didn't know to do that. I was comping on the high strings. He was a gentleman and said 'sounds good, but it's a little thin'. He had one study in that book on Rhythm changes that I was all over. It kind of changed my life. Totally tangential, but what exactly were the bass string voicings? Root-3rd-7th stuff? I'm really curious. Exactement. But root, 7th, third in root position, then just going by voice-leading the way anyone would.

Anybody Shirley Horn would even consider giving the bench to as she sang had to be a seriously bad MF. She was very picky.

I do take what you say seriously, and I do respect your social history and achievements within the music. I am questioning what you said though. I don't believe the recorded work by Eddie Diehl justifies your position - that you have further elucidated. I find the idea that Eddie Diehl had a sound and musical opus big enough to co-exist with Tyner/Jones and Larry Young/Jones - in any way comparable to Grant Green, almost offensive to the principle of the musicians who chose to work with Grant. That you suggest Grant Green is held in over-regard because of the so-called romantic legacy of substance abuse, even more so. I am also suggesting that the decision by Grant Green to use electric instruments and play groove based music, was also an artistic decision that related to the changing music around him, as well as his ability to contribute to it. In regards to the narrative of this thread, there is nothing in these records he made (the funk ones), that suggest insincerity or unprincipled manoeuvres (made for popularities sake alone). As has also been pointed out in this thread, they probably weren't made for 'you' as an audience. It would have been retrogressive, conceptually, for him to have begun exploring 'chord-melody' at this point in time. With the reality of Black music the way it was. The direction he took with the funk albums was every bit as logical as the way Hancock ran with the more radical funk of the In A Silent Way/Bitches Brew sound towards the Headhunters. I am saying also that Grant Green 'was' a MF and he 'was' trying. He just wasn't trying to be Joe Pass. So yes, if you think not being concerned with extending the trio/standards format is lazy, well and good. I don't, compared to finding musicians who have a vision for 1969 instrumental music, working the guitar into the front line of that music without recourse to Hendrixisms - and organising the style and arrangements that will fill clubs and create the atmosphere you can hear on Alive and Live At The Lighthouse. You just don't know Eddie's playing then. And I don't blame you. He doesn't record well and hates recording. There was a Hank Mobley record, Thinking of Home. He was OK, but sounded a million times better with just me and him jamming, which are hours and hours from the 80s, but never recorded, and live gigs I was at. The best stuff was a trio at Vassar with Jimmy Cobb and Bill Crow (but he hated it and wouldn't make me a copy) but more so a duo gig with Red Mitchell at Bradley's that Steve Berger recorded. I told him he should put that out. He actually agreed but thought Mitchell's widow would be hard to deal with or something. Bullshit. Eddie just doesn't like hearing himself on recording. I can relate. But that doesn't help my case here. Don't know what else to say. Ask other guitar players. You're not gonna sway me on Grant so let's agree to disagree. He sounds good and live and let live. Ok. Well maybe he should have recorded more in the sixties. He might have had a better sound by the time he got to record with Hank Mobley and Reuben Wilson. Ha ha. Maaaaaaa!!! He won't stooooooooppppp!!!!

Anyone see them on PBS Saturday? I never heard of them but they were a delight. Great band and recording. You could hear everything crystal-clear. And who knew Elvis Costello was such a smooth guitar player? The only lumpy gravy: Jakob Dylan. But he came and went fast, thankfully. These kids are headed for the heights! The funny thing was I turned away from a special, an overblown and embarrasing shitball of Lionel Ritchie doing Country, and having his ego waxed. I couldn't take any more and was contemplating suicide or becoming a nun when I changed channels and heard the real deal, at least in Bluegrass and Rockabilly. The young ladies were fabulous natural singers and oh so poised.

Very sad. Up on Cripple Creek..........

I worked through this with Barry himself. He and Milt sounded great on the companion recording. But we both agreed that the stuff was too fancy to be practical. The best and most useful thing Barry showed me was the 3-note bass string voicings for 4/4 comping. Amazing but I just didn't know to do that. I was comping on the high strings. He was a gentleman and said 'sounds good, but it's a little thin'. He had one study in that book on Rhythm changes that I was all over. It kind of changed my life. It was worth going just for the stories. He knew about Jo Jones telling John Carisi (his best friend) to 'go to Florida and get a suntan' before you play with me, then kicking him off the stand. I told him that one. That was at the West End right before my eyes. Jo turned into a bitter dick at the end, sorry to say. He was trashing the band, which included one of the all-time champs, Percy France, that night, and coming in wrong but covering himself. He got on the bass player's case---a guy named Skinny Berger. Just mean and no class. I never spoke to him and I'm glad. But Barry just laughed and said Jo was out of his mind. Always. Then he told me about the Coleman Hawkins Bossa Nova date, where 'no one knew his ass from a hole in the ground. Of course Bean always sounded good and Willie Rodriguez was a good drummer. But you never saw a more more confused group of motherfuckers than us'.

and you, Mr. Phunkey, have so eloquently stated what i so clumsily tried to say. thank you! Speak Like a Child was beautifully arranged by Thad Jones. It is lyrical and beautiful as a composition and unfolds beautifully. That bass flute is worth the price of the ticket. I wonder why Herbie never arranged for a larger ensemble. Maybe he did. I think Herbie's self-editing over time is an important point that seems to have been missed here. It seems like he recognized that his earlier work w/Miles, etc. was almost too freewheeling and wanted to simplify. And he did, beautifully. It takes a lot of discipline to take a great, if verbose, talent and pare down. It's almost painful. But you sort of trust that the ideas will keep coming and you want to focus and be understood, so something like 'minimilization' occurs (shoot me, I'm sounding like a goddamn writer). Beckett did it with words. It's amazing to watch the trajectory from More Kicks than Pricks or Whoroscope to the novels (thick as an Irish wood)to finally Play, Eh, Joe, etc. Truly amazing. It's only when Herbie strapped on that keyboard and did Rockit that he offended me and I turned off. That was some sell-out bullshit. That and hosting 'Rock School' on PBS. Ugh. But he's got a hell of a legacy still. Are we talking more of a compositional/idiomatic simplification or an instrumental simplification? All of the above. Pared down. Simplified. Like the word supposedly scrawled on Beethoven's scores that became a kind of joke: 'Simplify, simplify'. He dood it. Hard for a guy with so much to say. I think he really got down to brass tacks on Chameleon---for one of many possible examples. That melody still has some weirdness at the very end, but is palatable and understandable. That's willful discipline. I'm glad that Herbie acknowledged Chris---who was my friend and whose playing I adore---and that Chris got some play behind Herbie saying he studied with Chris. But I never heard what Herbie got from Chris. Ever. They're both very discursive, rambling, and with great harmonic ears but so, so different. Chris leaves a lot of space, especially in his rubato playing, and to me is a more authentic bluesman, even if he dips in and out. Burt Eckoff, a fine pianist who knew Chris longer and better than me, swears that he has recordings of Herbie where you can hear Chris's influence. I'd like to hear that. I think it's the Chris of the mid to late '50s that Herbie learned from. It's my impression, having heard CA some in-person back then and on the recordings he made around that time, especially the VeeJay album, that he was playing rather differently then than he was in his later "very discursive, rambling" years, fascinating as that later manner was. He used the same voicings in the 40s, just opened the style up. The core was formed early, as with all great artists and most humans. I have to go back and listen to that live recording with Bird, if anything much can be told from that. Probably he was so excited to play with Bird he was nervous as hell. but it's still Chris.

I'm glad that Herbie acknowledged Chris---who was my friend and whose playing I adore---and that Chris got some play behind Herbie saying he studied with Chris. But I never heard what Herbie got from Chris. Ever. They're both very discursive, rambling, and with great harmonic ears but so, so different. Chris leaves a lot of space, especially in his rubato playing, and to me is a more authentic bluesman, even if he dips in and out. Burt Eckoff, a fine pianist who knew Chris longer and better than me, swears that he has recordings of Herbie where you can hear Chris's influence. I'd like to hear that.

How about "Give me That Old Time Religion"?

and you, Mr. Phunkey, have so eloquently stated what i so clumsily tried to say. thank you! Speak Like a Child was beautifully arranged by Thad Jones. It is lyrical and beautiful as a composition and unfolds beautifully. That bass (alto? haven't heard it in years) flute is worth the price of the ticket. I wonder why Herbie never arranged for a larger ensemble. Maybe he did. I think Herbie's self-editing over time is an important point that seems to have been missed here. It seems like he recognized that his earlier work w/Miles, etc. was almost too freewheeling and wanted to simplify. And he did, beautifully. It takes a lot of discipline to take a great, if verbose, talent and pare down. It's almost painful. But you sort of trust that the ideas will keep coming and you want to focus and be understood, so something like 'minimilization' occurs (shoot me, I'm sounding like a goddamn writer). Beckett did it with words. It's amazing to watch the trajectory from More Kicks than Pricks or Whoroscope to the novels (thick as an Irish wood)to finally Play, Eh, Joe, etc. Truly amazing. It's only when Herbie strapped on that keyboard and did Rockit that he offended me and I turned off. That was some sell-out bullshit. That and hosting 'Rock School' on PBS. Ugh. But he's got a hell of a legacy still.

Oh man, I'm in a library and can't listen. Phuck! He recorded this on Guitar and the Wind---his lone solo date of his career (like John Collins, who only made one)---showing what a stupid world it is and always was. 'Vanity, Vanity. All is vanity....' Is this the Art Ford Jazz Party show?

I do take what you say seriously, and I do respect your social history and achievements within the music. I am questioning what you said though. I don't believe the recorded work by Eddie Diehl justifies your position - that you have further elucidated. I find the idea that Eddie Diehl had a sound and musical opus big enough to co-exist with Tyner/Jones and Larry Young/Jones - in any way comparable to Grant Green, almost offensive to the principle of the musicians who chose to work with Grant. That you suggest Grant Green is held in over-regard because of the so-called romantic legacy of substance abuse, even more so. I am also suggesting that the decision by Grant Green to use electric instruments and play groove based music, was also an artistic decision that related to the changing music around him, as well as his ability to contribute to it. In regards to the narrative of this thread, there is nothing in these records he made (the funk ones), that suggest insincerity or unprincipled manoeuvres (made for popularities sake alone). As has also been pointed out in this thread, they probably weren't made for 'you' as an audience. It would have been retrogressive, conceptually, for him to have begun exploring 'chord-melody' at this point in time. With the reality of Black music the way it was. The direction he took with the funk albums was every bit as logical as the way Hancock ran with the more radical funk of the In A Silent Way/Bitches Brew sound towards the Headhunters. I am saying also that Grant Green 'was' a MF and he 'was' trying. He just wasn't trying to be Joe Pass. So yes, if you think not being concerned with extending the trio/standards format is lazy, well and good. I don't, compared to finding musicians who have a vision for 1969 instrumental music, working the guitar into the front line of that music without recourse to Hendrixisms - and organising the style and arrangements that will fill clubs and create the atmosphere you can hear on Alive and Live At The Lighthouse. You just don't know Eddie's playing then. And I don't blame you. He doesn't record well and hates recording. There was a Hank Mobley record, Thinking of Home. He was OK, but sounded a million times better with just me and him jamming, which are hours and hours from the 80s, but never recorded, and live gigs I was at. The best stuff was a trio at Vassar with Jimmy Cobb and Bill Crow (but he hated it and wouldn't make me a copy) but more so a duo gig with Red Mitchell at Bradley's that Steve Berger recorded. I told him he should put that out. He actually agreed but thought Mitchell's widow would be hard to deal with or something. Bullshit. Eddie just doesn't like hearing himself on recording. I can relate. But that doesn't help my case here. Don't know what else to say. Ask other guitar players. You're not gonna sway me on Grant so let's agree to disagree. He sounds good and live and let live.

Ha. The vagaries of cell phone-dispatched posts. Now I'm on a real computer (yaaaaaay!). New improved technology, same idiotic content. A marriage made in heaven

Joe was the swinger of the 2. And always in the shadow of Chuck (who he took to calling Chuckles, then Knuckles) and his chops. Chuck was one of the greatest ever on the instrument but a chip on his shoulder made him dig his cognac to the point of keeping time an impossibility. I think the popularity of Benson and Martino compared to them in the 70s made those guys pretty goddamn grouchy. So, brilliantly, they hooked up and turned on/took it out on each other! Puma was the swinger though, and an ace accompanist. Rest their souls (maladjusted knuckleheads-get outta here, I love yiz!) Joe was the swinger of the 2. And always in the shadow of Chuck (who he took to calling Chuckles, then Knuckles) and his chops. Chuck was one of the greatest ever on the instrument but a chip on his shoulder made him dig his cognac to the point of keeping time an impossibility. I think the popularity of Benson and Martino compared to them in the 70s made those guys pretty goddamn grouchy. So, brilliantly, they hooked up and turned on/took it out on each other! Puma was the swinger though, and an ace accompanist. Rest their souls (maladjusted knuckleheads-get outta here, I love yiz!)

It goes a little deeper, Larry, I think-and this time, glory be, sociology is part of it. It's how you came up-the needs of the gig. Like guys that went through the chittlin circuit-b/c that's what was available, sink or swim-developed a different skill set as accompanists and general than their peers playing the hotels and lounges behind blonde singers with dainty white gloves and Beehive dos. The lucky ones played 4 on the floor in big bands-the best foundation of all. Like Chris Anderson put it 'you did what you had to to survive, and thats a fact'. Someone had asked him about blues gigs. And no, not Barney. I meant the guy featured prominently in intros etc. on Easy Street. She sang Soon it's Gonna Rain. He's wonderful. Ditto the guy on Bill Black's one recording. High-grade marble, these gents. Larry, I'm a major-league dingus for not mentioning Barry Galbraith. He was IMO the best musician to pick up a guitar. My teacher too.

I guess there's a difference between punching in some 3-note chords behind organ (which definitely takes skill) and going the distance to be a full-fledged accompanist. The great John Collins, Mundell Lowe, Jim Hall, the MD for Julie London-don't know the name-these are outstanding accompanists on guitar, and it's just about a lost art. Wes, Jimmy, Django, Christian-the great soloists-I say let 'em be. They did enough and then some. Nobody can do everything.

Its OK Allen. We WROTE the bible. AND that last go-round one of us gave 'em WHAT to write...

Pt. 2: I think the difference between Wes and Grant maybe is Wes seemed bugged by his limitations-meaning lack of formal musical training-and I think cared enough to want to study-if he could ever get off the 'plantation'.I think he felt trapped and maybe embarrassed by the last commercial LPs, which were pretty cheesy compared to the early ones. I remember him saying 'you know, I don't HAVE to play'. I took that to mean 'if the shit gets (stays) that aggravating I'll go home to my life and y'all can have it'. I wish he did-might have added years to his life. Grant I think just wanted to work and stay high. He seemed to shrug off his limitations and lack of progress in his playing. Maybe I'm wrong. I didn't know the cat. Seems that way, though. Thanks for mentioning Atilla, who I DID know. Everyone loved him. His malapropisms alone kept everyone in stiches. Very unique player. We played at his crib and he heard me in different situations including a tribute to him. But he was gone before I realized HOW good..

I wouldn't sell Wes short as a 'blues-hard bopper (hard bop: what a bullshit, jazz writer word. No musician in his right mind talks like that. I'm telling you right, trust me). But Wes had the blues as plasma-true dat-and he was of the generation to know certain Bird tunes, etc., but the biggest part of his genius to me went beyond guitar (where he felt his skills were limited and felt intimidated beyond rationality by 'schooled' players) and even jazz. It was a humanity-a feeling for people that made his playing so beloved. It was easy to put him with strings and brass so he could sell and reach-and live w/his family like a human being. The minute he did, naturally, the jive-ass, no playing writers came out of the walls like the rats and roaches they are to highmindly tell him and us what a sellout Wes was. Nothing ever changes, and jealous buffoons w/suspect writing ability and none at music are still at it-and some people are dumb enough to read such tripe. At least they still can READ, I give 'em that...