Beatles on vinyl

[DrJ]

Anyone in the know about what are considered to be best quality vinyl reissues for Beatles (probably not interested in the originals given the high price)? I am interested in the original mono mixes, and from what I can piece together so far it appears the series issued in Japan on Odeon in 1982 (and then re-released briefly in 1986) gets high marks and is not TOO ridiculous price-wise. However, there are conflicting stories on the Web, different opinions, so I'm a little confused.

Comments? Other suggestions? I have a workmanlike, inexpensive series of albums on UK Parlphone done in the early 80s, these are stereo mixes though and the vinyl quality wasn't great.

[AfricaBrass]

Growing up, I was a HUGE Beatles fan. I tried to pick up pressing from all over the world. Having said this, I have a few of those Japanese Odeon albums and I think they sound better than most of the other Beatles' vinyl I have. Of course, I don't have the Mobile Fidelity set, which probably sounds the best.

Have you checked the Steve Hoffman forum? I'd do a search of their board, I bet they have covered this already.

www.stevehoffman.tv

Good luck!

[DrJ]

Yes, it was in looking through the Hoffman thread that I heard these were highly regarded. I'm not sure they are quite up with the original pressings from UK and Japan, but probably close enough for me! THanks for the comments on the Odeons' sound quality, I am probably going to sample one and then decide for myself whether it's worth chasing all of them down. There was actually an extremely limited edition box of 10 LPs when this was issued - really hard to find because they tended to be broken up and sold as individual albums.

BTW, people may be interested to know that I have read very mixed reviews of the Mobile Fidelity stuff...in fact most people seem to prefer the Odeons who are "audiophile" types. Apparently some of the MoFi stuff was actually heavily processed/tweaked, for example...I didn't save the links but if you do some searches you'll come up with just as many brickbats about that series as kudos. Bummer, as I had figured those would be universally lauded as great.

Next to the Odeons from Japan early 80s (a red vinyl series btw), and next to the original 1960s pressings from UK or Japan, the next most positive consistent comments seem to apply to the 70s UK pressings. For us folks in the U.S., apparently for U.S. versions Capitol did a nice series right before the death of vinyl as a mass-market format (many comment that these pressings were far superior to anything previously issued in the U.S., interstingly enough given the late issue date)

However of all these series, most seem very hard to come by in my searches without breaking the bank; the Odeons (expensive enough) are less ridiculous and seem to come available a bit more often. Plus they did the whole lot in mono, and I am really interested in hearing the monos - apparently those were the mixes George Martin and the Beatles actually participated in and "intended" us all to hear, even up through the SGT PEPPER and "White Album" - despite most of us being reared on Stereo versions. The story goes that the stereo mixes were not supervised by the Beatles, even of the later albums, and were done very hastily after the painstaking mono versions had already been blessed.

Also, apparently George Martin is on record saying that PEPPER needs to be heard in its mono mix to truly get the experience that he and the Beatles intended.

I'm guessing the Odeons still pop up because some people, in spite of that, prefer stereo after all.

BTW - all of this is stuff I pieced together from multiple Web sites and books, and it's quite possible that I have some of the facts a bit off, so I would welcome input from people who have actually heard different issues from these series and are more in the know.

Edited January 10, 2005 by DrJ

[wolff]

Yes, very famous story about the MOFI Beatles. Something like this: the owner kept saying turn up the treble as the engineer did so against his better judgement.

I'm really of no help because I just(within last 2 months) sold my super mint MOFI Beatles LP's.

The Japanese mono set goes for $1000-2000 or so, doesn't it?

[DrJ]

Yes, as a set it is quite pricey - but many of the individual LPs (especially the earlier ones) can be had for quite a bit less than the "unit LP price" you get dividing the set price by 10.

Still, if I could find a set, reasonable price, I'd be mighty tempted...

[DrJ]

Well, as a way to get my toe wet with this whole issue, I snagged the Japanese red vinyl Odeon edition of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT from 1986 (EAS 70132). Mint copy, with obi etc. This was of course originally part of the very limited Japanese MONO COLLECTION box which has widely been parcelled out and sold in bits and pieces. There are one or two people out there who seem to hold the impression that the 1982 Japanese mono pressings were somewhat superior to this 1986 batch, but the more broad opinion seems to be that they are both excellent and that you ought to snag stuff from either set if you get a decent price...and many who have A/B'd them say it's a draw, both are great.

In Web shopping, I'd never seen this title from this series listed for under $100 anywhere (for mint copies, often much more - up as high as $250).

I paid $65 which is still way more than is logical, but not bad to see if it's worth me spending large amounts of my precious remaining days on earth hunting down the rest of the Beatles audiophile mono editions (everything up through YELLOW SUBMARINE, so 10 titles - the later ABBEY ROAD and LET IT BE were originally mixed in/intended to be stereo, the mono stuff circulating is bogus as it's "collapsed" from stereo) - whether UK or Japanese, 1982 or 1986 reissue or mint original mono editions from either country) - hopefully for a little less than this per LP.

Also I suppose this LP is only going to appreciate in value, given it's Beatles, it's a Japanese mono pressing, and it's mint...subsequent CD issues are not likely to change any of that, no matter how good.

So I guess I didn't do too bad even at that silly price point, especially when you consider the complete box often sells for $1500-2000...at this price point I ought to be able to assemble the whole collection for well under $1000 (the general consensus on audiophile sites discussing this issue is don't pay for the boxed set as it's over-priced, you can piece it together for less).

How's that for the world's lengthiest rationalization?

If anyone around here even cares (!), I will post my impressions of the LP sonics when it arrives...if it's half as good as people seem to think, then it just might be that a large chunk of my jazz recordings budget will be siphoned off this year (I know, as far as jazz sales are concerned, it's like a mini British Invasion - 1964 all over again!).

Edited January 16, 2005 by DrJ

[wolff]

Are you practicing on us, before you explain it to you know who?

Enjoy the LP! I hope that's what she says.

[DrJ]

She has, already! Luckily I don't ever really have too much splainin' to do about my record buying habit with my wonderful wife.

[porcy62]

In Web shopping, I'd never seen this title from this series listed for under $100 anywhere (for mint copies, often much more - up as high as $250).

I bought some original mono pressings, on Parlophone, for less than $ 100, check the UK ebay site out for that.

[DrJ]

Porcy, lately on Ebay Beatles original pressing UK mono stuff in NM or better condition is going for WAY more than $100, unfortunately.

I did find a VG+ mono original pressing of SGT PEPPER at a UK used record retailer that has inventory on the Web. I am not thrilled with VG+ but it was a "mere" $60 and I wanted to find out if it's really worth me chasing down better copies and spending the bucks it will take.

So far I have to say I'm pretty much convinced that it's worth it. After 2 full listens through yesterday, there is no comparison - the mono mix is far superior to the stereo version that I grew up with. I'm sure part of the issue is that I'm listening to a first pressing - no tape aging/wear, taken from 1st generation master, etc - done on heavy, quality vinyl. But also the mix is radically different. Far more punchy and present, with a literally visceral impact in some spots. McCartney's bass is bouncy and rubbery and punches through, the vocals are wonderfully transparent and you can really hear the various vocalists (it's an ensemble, not just a big mush) during harmony passages. There are all kinds of major differences too in backing parts being better balanced than in the stereo mixes (the guitar in "Getting Better" for example, which on the American stereo issues has always been to me obnoxiously loud, out of balance with the needs of the piece).

There's some interesting faux pas too - like the sloppier segue edit between the end of "Good Morning, Good Morning" and the Pepper reprise.

So far, then, I'm convinced - if you love the Beatles' stuff, worth finding good quality mono.

Literally as I was typing this, my Japanese 1986 Odeon mono copy of HARD DAY'S NIGHT was delivered! That one was listed as mint/mint and looks it on quick inspection. I'll post my impressions later today or tomorrow.

[porcy62]

For a funny concidence I have two copy of SPLHCB, Parlophone mono pressing, and I enjoy them very much. I have an original mono pressing of "Hard Days Night" too, and it sounds great. I do not totally agree about MFSL, I own some of their stereo pressing of the late Beatles albums, and IMHO they sound good. I am not a fan of japanese pressings in general, they sound great, but they are not cheap and lack the "smell of history" of original pressing if you can understand what I mean. Talking about rock music I try to find US original pressing for US artists and UK pressing for UK artists, when the prices are impossible I go for cheaper reissue in decent condition (usually european reissue). Anyway the Beatles discography is pretty small compared to most of Jazz artists, I would go for originals, consider it a presents for you birthday, in a few years you will get all Beatles Lps.

Edited January 30, 2005 by porcy62

[DrJ]

So belatedly here's my opinion on the HARD DAY'S NIGHT Japanese Odeon "red wax" mono issue:

Shreds the Parlophone UK plain Jane reissue LP that I had, which is stereo and sounds very tame and completely lacking in visceral impact compared to the mono vinyl. I've read this opinion elsewhere and it's really true of the mono HARD DAY'S NIGHT and of PEPPER for that matter - they both sound much harder-rocking, like real rock 'n' roll records, less muted and (for PEPPER) much less remote/artsy. It's a pretty substantial difference, and it's just so much fun to compare these to the stereo versions I grew up with and literally have internalized down to little micro-moments.

The sound on this Japanese Odeon is a little harsher than on the original UK PEPPER pressing I discussed above - this could be the original recordings being different obviously (I don't have any mono LP titles in both versions that would allow A/B of the same recording) but knowing these recordings well I suspect it's just a difference in the overall production process between the Japanese reissues and original UK issues. I must say that the Japanese LP has remarkable clarity and thus may show some of the aging/warts on the master tapes...for example, you can hear the tape hiss as tracks end and then in the gap between tracks it goes completely silent, then you hear the hiss again right before the next song starts...I've never heard this as prominently on any LP and I think it speaks to the mint quality of the vinyl as well as the incredible fidelity of the pressing. Whether this is particularly "musical" or not is of course another story...and it seems to impart a harsher high-end on the Odeon. Anyway, I find the warmth and overall impact of the UK original pressing is more musical. This helps give me my answer as to which pressings I will seek out in the future - original UK mono at least for now.

Edited February 2, 2005 by DrJ

[porcy62]

The sound on this Japanese Odeon is a little harsher than on the original UK PEPPER pressin...I've never heard this as prominently on any LP and I think it speaks to the mint quality of the vinyl as well as the incredible fidelity of the pressing. Whether this is particularly "musical" or not is of course another story...

You got the point! Original pressings, jazz and rock, are more musical for me. Maybe I loose something in term of musical detail, but the experience is more satisfiyng. I have some Classic reissues of Led Zeppelin, they sound great, I can even listen to the hand of Jimmy Page sliding on the guitar, but in term of emotion the original Atlantic stereo pressing (1841 Broadway) are unbeatable.

If you want to hear some of the greatest mono pressings try to find some unboxed Decca lps (UK) of the Rolling Stones and John Mayall.

[sidewinder]

A friend of mine swears he saw an original 'Sergeant Pepper' signed by all four on the wall of a London shop around 10 years ago, in the middle of the last major recession, for less than £200. He didn't pounce and has been regretting it ever since.

[porcy62]

A friend of mine swears he saw an original 'Sergeant Pepper' signed by all four on the wall of a London shop around 10 years ago, in the middle of the last major recession, for less than £200. He didn't pounce and has been regretting it ever since.

I suppose your friend was affected by that recession.

[sidewinder]

Yes. A colleague who was with him though though was trading in some punk singles at the time so could have gone for it. C'est la vie....

[DrJ]

Next in my Beatles vinyl odyssey - a really early (first pressing or close) UK ABBEY ROAD. There are -1 master numbers for both sides in the "dead wax" so it has to be early, but not very first press given that there are no outer cover glitches that are well-known on true first pressings (misaligned apple etc).

Anyway, sounds remarkable. A really nice quality copy with minimal to no surface noise. Much warmer, transparent, and alive than my 80s repressing for sure. These early pressings are amazing, I never realized how much of a difference it can make when the vinyl and pressing quality were top notch (as they were for UK Apple and before that Parlophone). A nice score from Vintage Vinyl (although there was a cover gouge they never mentioned - which was totally bogus - so they gave me a $15 credit for next order which was pretty cool).