Tune name problems

[Michael Fitzgerald]

OK - on Herbie Hancock's Blue Note LP The Prisoner, there is a tune named "Fire Water" - credits are: Charles Williams (CD) and Buster Williams (boxed set), the same guy in case you didn't know. The tune is also on the Jazz Crusaders LP Powerhouse (Buster also on bass there), which was its first recording, I believe.

Checking BMI, I see that Herbie Hancock has a tune titled "Firewater" listed (and that Buster's is "Firewater" without the space). Any thoughts on this? Are there really two tunes? I can't find any Hancock recording other than the one for The Prisoner.

Lastly - there is a Buster Williams tune called "Dual Force" - this is the SAME piece as his "Firewater."

Mike

[couw]

The RVG of The Prisoner lists "Firewater" (sans space) by Buster Williams, the TOCJ lists "Firewater" (sans space) by C.B. Williams.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well - next question. Still Buster Williams category, as it happens:

The Hump - recorded by Yusef Lateef 1972 LP Hush 'n Thunder - credited to Kenny Barron (BMI lists this)

The Hump - recorded by Buster Williams 1975 LP Pinnacle - credited to Buster Williams, I believe (but no BMI mention) - anyone got this to compare?

Thanks -

Mike

[couw]

does this help:

http://www.vinyl.com/product_id/LPMUSE5080

?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Thanks - that's all info I have. What I need to hear (or have someone else hear) is whether the tune on the Lateef album is the same as the Williams one.

Mike

[Bill Fenohr]

Mike

The Buster Williams Hump was registered with ASCAP if thats any help to you. Also it has a different publishing company then the Barron composition.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Yep, I missed that, thanks - of course the ASCAP database doesn't have anything on this. Nor on other tunes from that album.

Mike

[Christiern]

It's all "Melancholy Baby," isn't it?

[Eloe Omoe]

The Hump - recorded by Yusef Lateef 1972 LP Hush 'n Thunder - credited to Kenny Barron (BMI lists this)

The Hump - recorded by Buster Williams 1975 LP Pinnacle - credited to Buster Williams, I believe (but no BMI mention) - anyone got this to compare?

Yes, I got both. Two different compositions.

Luca

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Appreciated! Now question - will we ever see a time when Kenny and Buster will do a reunion duo album with both Humps present? There are several situations where there are two tunes of the same title - but has there ever been an album that includes TWO different tunes with the SAME title?

BTW, that Barron-Williams album title will of course be "Bactrian Jazz".

Mike

[danasgoodstuff]

I'd thought they'd call it "One Hump or Two".

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Next:

Hard Sock Dance -

1. ASCAP shows one by Quincy Jones

2. ASCAP shows one by Billy Byers [oh man, is this going to get sticky?]

3. BMI shows one by Frank Wess

4. GEMA shows one by Quincy Jones and Ernest Bailey (this is Benny Bailey, born Ernest Harold Bailey)

Recordings:

Frank Foster (Savoy, 1956) - this is #3 and Frank Wess is on it.

Benny Bailey (Candid, 1960) - logically, #4

Quincy Jones (Impulse, 1961) - uh oh - Byers is on the session

Milt Buckner (Black & Blue, 1977) listed as Hard Sock's Dance

The latest Phil Woods CD is a tribute to Quincy and includes the tune, saying that it originally appeared on the Benny Bailey record and uses composer credits as from #4.

After listening to the Foster/Wess and the Jones (and Woods) versions, there are definitely at least TWO pieces. Both are blues in key of F, but not the same.

I'm thinking that the Bailey/Jones/Woods one should have co-composers as Jones-Bailey. I have no info on the involvement of Byers, who served as ghost writer for Jones on many things. I have not heard the Buckner - could be a totally different tune.

Anyone to elaborate on or refute anything above?

Mike

[Michael Fitzgerald]

How about this one?

"Time Was"

I have a number of versions of this tune - John Coltrane, Bud Powell, Kenny Barron, Native Colours, Shorty Rogers, Tubby Hayes - they're all the SAME tune.

However, on these versions I see differing composer credits: I'm thinking that the correct one is Miguel Prado & Gabriel Luna with English lyrics by Sidney Keith Russell. I don't think I've ever heard the lyrics, though. Original title "Duerme" it seems.

But there are several issues that list Harry Akst. Why? I find no trace of a tune of that title by him in ASCAP database. The Shorty Rogers version on VSOP even tries to tell me it's an original by Shorty!

Anyone got the scoop? Apparently it was new in 1941 when Dorsey, Goodman, and Shaw had it in their books, though I don't have any of those. Looks like it's Bud who's the link to it for the modern players.

BTW, please disregard tune of the same title by Paul Bley.

Mike

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Next -

I already know that Cedar Walton's tune "Ugetsu" (first done with Art Blakey) has been recorded under the title of "Fantasy In D".

Can someone confirm that the title track of Freddie Hubbard's CTI album "Polar AC" is the same piece? That's what Doug Payne's CTI discography says.

There's a version of Ugetsu issued as a bonus track on the CD of First Light. Is this the same performance issued as Polar AC?? I can confirm that this definitely is the Walton tune, played at a slower tempo than is customary.

Who is credited as composer for this tune on the Polar AC LP. The dreaded allmusic site says Chris Kenner (the New Orleans R&B guy?). The BMI database seems to be unavailable. Payne says "Polar AC (aka Fantasy In D)" by Walton.

Thanks!

Mike

[brownie]

Next -

I already know that Cedar Walton's tune "Ugetsu" (first done with Art Blakey) has been recorded under the title of "Fantasy In D".

Can someone confirm that the title track of Freddie Hubbard's CTI album "Polar AC" is the same piece? That's what Doug Payne's CTI discography says.

I have checked and can confirm it's the same tune.

The Blakey interpretation is so much better!

There's a version of Ugetsu issued as a bonus track on the CD of First Light. Is this the same performance issued as Polar AC?? I can confirm that this definitely is the Walton tune, played at a slower tempo than is customary.

Don't think I have a single CTI CD!. I have stuck to vinyls from this label.

Who is credited as composer for this tune on the Polar AC LP. The dreaded allmusic site says Chris Kenner (the New Orleans R&B guy?). The BMI database seems to be unavailable. Payne says "Polar AC (aka Fantasy In D)" by Walton.

'Polar AC' is credited to Cedar Walton on the CTI LP.

Thanks!

Mike

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