Need recs for entry-level headphone setup

[wesbed]

I'm still trying to decide which headphones I want to purchase. I had my mind/heart set on the Sennheiser 650s. However, I've read so many reviews saying the 650s are dark. Does dark mean muffled? Does dark mean high frequencies that will sound dull? As a frequent poster on this board, DrJ's many comments go a long way with me.

I thought I'd decided, for certain, that I wanted the Sennheiser 650s. Then I re-read this thread, and found another thread posted here. The Sony's win here too.

I wonder if, perhaps, Sony is the way to go? I like crisp high-frequencies and natural sounding bass. The use of the word dark to describe the Sennheiser 650s is starting to scare me away from the product.

Edited April 30, 2004 by wesbed

[wesbed]

I'm not a 'brand' person. I don't care what brand is on a product if I like the product. For example, I'll drink Old Milwaukee beer because I like it. I don't care what thoughts/feelings the brand name conjures up.

When it comes to stereo equipment, however, I have always thought/hoped that an audiophile brand would mean something, versus a non-audophile brand.

I've been investigating headphones recently. I can't test the equipment before purchase because the equipment is not sold in stores in my area. I have wanted, so badly, to learn that Grado and/or Sennheiser would be the way to go. I wanted to learn that an audophile company would be known for the 'best' headphone. I've learned that Sennheiser tends to be considered the standard for the best.

From many, many of the reviews I've read, however, Sony (a non-audophile company, in my opinion), makes the headphones that people are liking. This agrees, 100%, with DrJ's posts in this thread.

another 'positive' Sony review

[Dmitry]

From many, many of the reviews I've read, however, Sony (a non-audophile company, in my opinion), makes the headphones that people are liking.

You should see the high-end stuff they make for the internal market in Japan!

Pick up a Japanese hi-fi magazine or the Swing Journal, they almost always advertise in it.

...

I'll post my impression of the Etymotics later tonight.

Edited May 6, 2004 by Dmitry

[Dmitry]

First of all I must say that brother Claypone made a good choice with the Sennheisers he got. They're strictly for home use, imo, and need some good juice to power them up, but when it happens they once again spell out that Senn. is tough to beat in value.

A month or so ago I got much louded Etymotics ER•4P headphoes [can't call them cans, because they go inside the ears]. Here are my impressions, after giving them a fair run with my walkman.

Pros-

*Amazing sound reproduction. It was the clincher for me.

*Can be easily converted into the ER•4S with a simple extension cord[ER•4P produce 10 dB greater output at high frequencies and 13 dB greater output at low frequencies. The higher sensitivity and enhanced bass make them desirable for portable use, which is what I was after. ER•4S are preferred for the hi-fi listening.]

*Very sturdy build for its size, but time will tell.

*Extra goodies.

Cons-

*Microphonic effect. In other words, the wire rubbing against clothing when I walk/bike transmits the noise to my ears. It can be eliminated to a large extent by attaching the wire to the supplied clip and then clipping it to the shirt.

*Price - around $230. Steep, but these are the best h-phones I've stuck in my ears so far.

*Unavailability in brick-and-mortar stores for a trial listen. Bought them sight unseen from a retailer that offered 1-month return no frills.

*Sennheisers were more comfortable. Remember, the ER•4P go into your ears direct. You might want to have your MD flush your ears. It's a good idea anyhow to do it yearly.

*Warranty could be 3 years istead of one.

I've decided to keep them, mainly because they sound very very good, despite all the little Cons they have one huge Pro - the sound is amazing even with my shitty portable. I can only imagine what a good headphone amp can do for these babies.

[wolff]

Nice review. I've always read good things about these. I think Stax has a battery powered in-ear model now. Never felt like I would like these do to the in-ear feeling. Maybe, you get used to it.

You are right about having your ears flushed once a year. I usually wait until I fall over.

[ADR]

Wesbed:

You really should try out the Sonys and Senns and see which ones you like best. I know that Headroom has a very liberal return policy to allow people to audition phones and return the ones they don't like. There probably is another vendor out there that sells the Sonys that would have an equally liberal return policy.

Re: The Etymotics

I can testify from first hand knowledge as to how wonderful the Etymotic headphones are. I've had my Etymotic ER-4P/4S headphones for about two years now and they are what I do almost all of my focused jazz listening with. The "in the ear" effect is something that you get used to very quickly after regular use of the Etys. The real strength of the Etys is the level of detail that they reveal. I have used a lot of different headphones and I would stack the Ety ER-4S up against any other headphone in terms of how revealing they are of fine details in the music. The bass is also incredibly deep, tight and realistic - if somewhat less visceral than with larger, over the ear headphones. About the only real drawback to the Etys IMO is that they have a somewhat reduced soundstage compared to open cans like the Senn.s and Grados. I don't find this to be that big of drawback though because I'm mostly listening to small jazz combos. If you listen to a lot of classical music with large symphonys, the small sound stage might be a bigger drawback.

ADR

[kumakuma]

I'm a big fan of the Etys. I use the 4s at home and the ER-6s with my iPod. Highly recommend the ER-6 earphones - cheaper than the ER-4s with sound almost as good and much less microphone effect from the cords. The only real drawback as far as I'm concerned is that they cut out so much noise you can't use them if you need to hear anything. This, however, makes them ideal for air travel. An iPod, pair of ER-6s, and a collection of high-res Blue Note MP3s almost makes flying enjoyable.

[wesbed]

I believe I'll get a pair of these. If they're good enough for Andrew Hill, they're good enough for me.

[wesbed]

I received my Sony CD3000s about two weeks ago. I'm still breaking them in, according to opinions at Head-Fi.

I found the 'phones at Etronics for $379. This beats Best Buy by about $100.

Edited June 15, 2004 by wesbed

[ADR]

Wesbed:

Glad to see you finally pulled the trigger on a nice pair of cans. In the end, what made you decide to go with the CD3000s over the Senns? - Just curious.

Did you decide on an amp. as well?

How are the Sonys working out for you - are they as good as you expected them to be? Did you audition any other cans before settling on the Sonys?

[wesbed]

Glad to see you finally pulled the trigger on a nice pair of cans.  In the end,  what made you decide to go with the CD3000s over the Senns? - Just curious.

I'd planned, from the beginning, to purchase the Sennheiser 650 headphones. I wanted to purchase the Senn650s so bad. I thought it was the way to go for me. Some websites rate the Senn650 as the world's best headphone. The idea of the name 'Sennheiser' appealed to me as more of an 'audophile' brand. I've never thought of Sony as being audiophile grade. While, at the same time, I was trying to not consider the 'brand' as much as the 'product.' I wanted to purchase the product that would best match my desires regardless of what brand label was slapped on its side.

However, I kept reading opinion after opinion at Head-Fi saying that the Senn650 had a 'veil.' Some opinions were that the Senn650 is 'laid back' or distant, that it doesn't reproduce high frequencies as well as it could. The same opinions were that the Sony CD3000 beat the Senn650, generally, in every category. Better highs, better lows, larger soundstage, etcetera. I tend to keep the treble on my stereo set a little on the high side. I don't like a veiled or distant sound. I believe both headphones are very good. It's too bad I was not able to test one against the other before making a purchase. I believe the preferred headphone would depend on your taste in music and sound. Unfortunately, the top of the line headphones are not sold in retail stores and cannot be tried until they are purchased. I've yet to learn what the Sennheiser 650 sounds like.

I read DrJ's comments on the Organissimo board. I respect his opinion since he listens to the same kind of music I listen to. He wrote that he'd tried the Sonys and the Sennheisers and he preferred the sound of the Sonys.

When my Sony CD3000s arrived, I plugged them directly into the headphone jack of my integrated amplifier. I was not impressed with the sound, to my surprise. Over the last month or so, my ears have become more attuned to the Sony CD3000s but I've still been, mostly, unimpressed. I met another board poster at Head-Fi who offered to let my use one of his headphone amplifiers (a META42). And, yeeeeaaooooowwwwwww, the Sony headphones now sound like what I'd expected. When I play a monophonic jazz recording, the Sony CD3000s sometimes confuse my brain cells into thinking the recording is in stereo. The person who let me borrow his headphone amplifier said he would build me one like his (or a PPA if I prefer). He says he'll charge me only for his cost of the parts.

DrJ... man, when are you going to get a headphone amplifier to make your CD3000s come alive?

ADR: Thanks for your advice regarding headphones and headphone amplifiers. My four month search is slowly coming to an end. You provided me with very good advice and direction during my search. With the combination of the Sony CD3000 headphone and the META42 headphone amp, I am most impressed. B)

Edited June 22, 2004 by wesbed