Stanley Turrentine on Canyon

[JSngry]

Used to see this album in the stores back inthe 70s, never could make sense of it. Odd label, odd tunes (or so it seemed then, this was before I knew about some of the late BN stuff), funky L.A. session cats like Paul Humphrey, Freddie Robinson, King Ericcson, Wilton Felder (on bass) etc., seem to remember Monk Higgins name on there too, I dunno, it just seemed "unofficial" or something, and not really something of interest to a "jazz purist" as I was then pretending to be. So I skipped over it many times.

Fast-forward 25 or so years. I find a copy of the Drive Archives reissue of this side for $4.99, figure "what the hell", picked it up, and it ain't bad. Nothing even remotely "essential", lots of, ahem, "unlikely" tunes ("Wedding Bell Blues"!), and everything around the 3:00 range, but the grooves are pretty solid, and Turrentine's playing the shit with full conviction and plenty of vigah. Priced right, I'd say, and a fin well spent. all things considered.

My question is this - how did this set come to be. Seems to have been from 1969(?), and from between T's BN & CTI contracts. My guess is that he was in L.A. for a spell, hooked up w/Monk Higgins (sure sounds like his trip) and laid some tracks. What I'm wondering is if this was a "real" album, or something released after Turrentine became more popular. Maybe it's some rough tracks for a Higgins-produced BN (or other label) session that never got off the ground? A cut or two has slicker sound, and at least one has a horn section added. Maybe it was a "spec" production that fell by the wayside after T hooked up w/CTI? Just guessing here. What kind of label was Canyon, anyway. Did they release anything else?

Also, the sound on the Drive Archives CD is pretty rough, as if these were cuts that had not been fully mixed and mastered. On one cut, "I'll Take You All The Way There" (a really gritty tune & performance, btw, stone cold Southern Soul down-tempo thing all the way), there's a significant loss of high frequencies, a quality I instinctively identify with a tape that's been dubbed and redubbed so many times that the question of "generation" enters the over-20 range. Not having heard the original(?) Canyon LP, I don't know if this cut is on there, or if Drive Archives added it/found it/stole it/whatever, but on an already rough sounding collection of tunes making up a release I've always suspected of being "shady", it stands out as being even more "questionable" than the rest. Too bad, because it's a fine little slice of Soul. The rest of the album, while not being a lost classic or anything, certainly doesn't suck by any stretch of the imagination, at least not within the parameters it sets up for itself. But it just doesn't sound "legit", if you know what I mean.

Any facts/rumors/whatever about either this album or the Canyon label would be appreciated. As always. thanks in advance.

[Dan Gould]

OK, now I'm a bit more confused than normal.

Is it my imagination or was there also a Trip album with similar material to the Drive Archive CD? Royal blue cover, no picture though.

I know I saw a Trip double LP at a local shop a while back, but the price was definitely wrong, and when I found the Archive CD, I figured this was the same thing. Going back, I'm pretty sure that there's more on the Trip double LP thing than is on the Drive Archive CD, but I still wasn't ready to pay, especially since I now have a number of those cuts on CD.

But where this all fits in with a Canyon label LP is totally beyond me.

[Dan Gould]

BTW, I agree with Jim. Not essential but Stanley always sounds good to my ears, even if the accompaniment/material ain't the greatest.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The Trip album (Yester Me, Yester You) appears to have 15 tracks, duplicating 9 of the 11 on the Canyon album. You would need to own both to have everything.

Discographies list this from 1974, between CTI and Fantasy. But I might be persuaded to believe 1970 due to the repertoire: "Yester Me, Yester You" and "Let It Be" and "Ma Cherie Amour" and "Wedding Bell Blues" are all 1969-1970 pop. "Let It Be" did not come out until 1970 (March for the single, May for the album). The presence of Monk Higgins seems to suggest that period as well. I don't see any other jazz activity for him in 1974.

Mike

[Dan Gould]

Thanks, Mike.

Man, they wanted $20 or $25 for the album and that's even harder to justify when its only for 6 tunes.

[JSngry]

So the Trip album (which I don't remember ever seeing) has 6 different cuts? Do they seem to be similar in orientation? Any info on what they are, and how long they might be?

1974 would seem to be when the album might have been released. but 69-70 definitely seems a more likely recording period.

That this might be a "bootleg" of an aborted/unused/whatever Turrentine/Higgins BN collaboration is becoming an increasingly attractive notion to my perhaps overactive imagination. It's difficult for me to imagine that Turrentine had a stretch where he was w/o a contract. Monk Higgins was doing production work for BN during this time, so it seems possible that he might've done a project w/Turrentine. How it would've slippied through the cracks and either not been finished or released and/or ended up being booted on Canyon is a different matter though.

No other info on the Canyon label?

[Dan Gould]

So the Trip album (which I don't remember ever seeing) has 6 different cuts? Do they seem to be similar in orientation? Any info on what they are, and how long they might be?

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that when I looked over the Trip vinyl, there were some cuts that were short, like on the Drive Archive reissue, but it seems to me that there were others that were more "album" length. I might be wrong, but I'm beginning to think I may try to make a run to the record store I saw it at, if for no other reason than to check tunes and if I am remembering track length correctly. Unfortunately, its not right around the corner so getting there isn't that easy.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Bruyninckx CDROM -

-Yester me, yester you- : Stanley Turrentine (ts) Joan Crowler (p) Al Vescovo, Freddy Robinson (g) Wilton Felder (b) Paul Humphrey (d) King Erisson (cga) Victor Feldman (perc) Monk Higgins, Art Freeman (arr)

Los Angeles, 1974

Flipped out (*) Trip TLX5006, Canyon 32

Let it be (*) -

Love's finally found me (take 1) -

Love's finally found me (take 2) -

Deuces wild -

I'll take you all the way there (take 1,*) -

Flipped (*) - , Canyon 27, LP7701

I only get that feeling (*) - , -

Flipped out pt 2 - , -

Wedding bells blues (*,+) - , 32, -

Yester-me, yester-you, yesterday (*,+) - , -

Ma cherie amour (*,+) - , 27, -

Brown eyed woman (*,+) - , -

Love's finally found me (take 3)(+) - , -

I'll take you all the way there (take 2) - -

I'm the one (*) -

Too old (*) -

Note : All titles from Trip TLX5006 also on DJM (E)DJSLM-2012 entitled "Another fine mess". (*) These titles on Drive DE2-41085 as "Flipped". (+) These titles on Versatile NED1122 as "Love's finally found me" and rest of this LP by Gloria Lynne a pop singer of no interest. Canyon LP7701 as "Flipped out".

Lord CDROM 5.0 -

Yester me, Yester you:

Stanley Turrentine (ts) Joan Crowler (p) Al Vescovo, Freddy Robinson (g) Wilton Felder (b) Paul Humphrey (d) King Errison (cga) Victor Feldman (perc) Monk Higgins, Art Freeman (arr)

Los Angeles, 1974

Flipped out Trip TLX5006

Let it be -

Love's finally found me (take 1) -

Love's finally found me (take 2) -

Deuces wild -

I'll take you all the way there (take 1) -

Flipped Trip TLX5006, Canyon LP7701

I only get that feeling - -

Flipped out (pt 2) - -

Wedding bells blues - - , Versatile NED1122

Yester-me, yester-you, yesterday - - -

Ma cherie amour - - -

Brown eyes woman - - -

Love's finally found me (take 3) - - -

I'll take you all the way there (take 2) - -

I'm the one -

Too old -

Note: Canyon LP7701 titled "Flipped out".

Versatile NED1122 titled "Love's finally found me"; further titles by Gloria Lynne (not included as outside the scope of this work).

All titles from Trip TLX5006 also on DJM (E)DJSLM-2012 titled "Another fine mess".

Mike

[Michael Fitzgerald]

This says the Canyon was issued in 1971, which sounds good to me. I believe the 1974 date is for the Trip issue.

http://sudo.3.pro.tok2.com/Quest/cards/S/S...ippedOut_x.html

As the Bruyninckx listing shows, Canyon issued 45 rpm singles of Flipped Out/Wedding Bell Blues and Flipped/My Cherie Amour.

West Wind has issued a CD "Flipped" with a great Blue Note-style cover ("featuring Wilton Felder")

http://tanieplyty.pl/product_info.php/cPat...712/language/en

Mike

[JSngry]

Ok, this leads to another question that may or may not be suitable for a thread of its own - during the post Lion/pre-Butler years, BN released a lot of albums that used "third party" producers (that is to say, people besided Wolff & Duke Pearson), of which Monk Higgins was but one. Does anybody know if these albums & producers were contracted by BN in advance, or did these producers do "spec" work which they then sold/leased/whatever to BN for release?

Also, in doing web research, I see that Canyon 27 is a 45 of "My Cherie Amour" b/w "Flipped" http://www.vepo-music.com/v-recs/v-45/t-45.html [EDIT: Mike got there before me, and w/more!]

Various web sites give the release date of the Canyon LP as 1970, 1971, or 1974. but the catalog # of 7701 suggests 1977, which would jibe w/my memories of when I started seeing it in the stores. But that's pretty shaky grounds for any sort of conclusion, I'll tell you that right now.

Edited April 30, 2005 by JSngry

[JSngry]

Interesting that none of the discographies make mention of the added horn section, which suggest to me that they're just reprinting whatever info was on the LP w/o ever actually listening to it. I suppose that's how it's done, right? Almost has to be, with so much stuff out there.

No other mention of other Canyon releases in the discographies?

[Harold_Z]

I have this on Canyon. Bought it when it came out and listened to it once or twice and just now sampled a couple of tracks as a refresher. (Damn - Wilton Felder plays this shit right on the money ! ! ). Jim - I hear what you're saying about "I'll take You All the way there" but I think it's the way Stanley was recorded. HIS ambience sounds different. I have to listen agian, but I think the track sounds consistent with the other tracks except for Stanley. Different (worse) Studio?

The notes list Monk Higgins and Art Freeman as arrangers and "the staff of Wally Roker & associates" as producer.

I have at least one other canyon lp. Canyon 7704 (Stanley was 7701 - there's at least 2 more Canyon lps) "I'm A Loser" by Doris Duke. Produced in Macon Ga by Jerry Williams aka Swampdog. It's a good record.

[JSngry]

This says the Canyon was issued in 1971, which sounds good to me. I believe the 1974 date is for the Trip issue.

http://sudo.3.pro.tok2.com/Quest/cards/S/S...ippedOut_x.html

Again, this is not solid information, but I really don't recall any Trip albums being issued as early as 1974. 1975 or 76 would be the earliest,

Again, that's just my memeory.

[Stereojack]

I have at least one other canyon lp. Canyon 7704 (Stanley was 7701 - there's at least 2 more Canyon lps) "I'm A Loser" by Doris Duke. Produced in Macon Ga by Jerry Williams aka Swampdog. It's a good record.

Canyon was primarily an R & B label. Swamp Dogg's first album "Total Destruction To Your Mind" was Canyon 7706. Swamp Dogg produced Doris Duke (2 LP's, I think) and Irma Thomas (at least one single, no album) for the label as well. I think the label was owned by Wally Roker.

There is also a Canyon label which features Native American recordings - no connection.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

All jazz discography references to the Canyon label appear to be to unrelated labels - Japanese, for example.

I wouldn't assume 7701 means a 1977 date with any certainty. Maybe in the world of Sun Ra, but not for this, I don't think.

Lord surely just copied from the Bruyninckx entry (note the remarkable coincidence of the annotations). Bruyninckx knew about the Trip issue in his 60YORJ.

Mike

P.S. - Trip was absolutely around in 1975. Here's a quote from db 5/8/75 p.22:

"Trip Records has leased many of the EmArcy masters and has begun the important job of restoring much of this material to circulation. [...] The series will reach 100 this year."

So, 100 issues by 1975 sounds like a start of 1974, at least.

Mike

Edited May 1, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Here's what I got for Canyon, subject to confirmation:

Turrentine, Stanley: Flipped Out Canyon 7701

Errison, King: King Arrives, The Canyon 7703

Duke, Doris: I'm A Loser Canyon 7704

Simone, Nina: Gifted & Black Canyon 7705

Swamp Dogg: Total Destruction To Your Mind Canyon 7706

Bliss: Bliss Canyon 7707

Bolling, Tiffany: Tiffany Canyon 7708

Lynne, Gloria: Happy And In Love Canyon 7709

Wanderly, Walter: Return Of The Original, The Canyon 7711

Phillips, Sandra: Too Many People In One Bed Canyon 7712

Mike

Edited May 1, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[JSngry]

I wouldn't assume 7701 means a 1977 date with any certainty. Maybe in the world of Sun Ra, but not for this, I don't think.

No, not with any certainty to be sure, but Strata-East was at leasr one lable that wasemplying the technique of making the year of issue a part of their catalog number.

So probably not, but also not with any certainty. Seems like a technique that a small "boutique" label might employ.

[JSngry]

P.S. - Trip was absolutely around in 1975. Here's a quote from db 5/8/75 p.22:

"Trip Records has leased many of the EmArcy masters and has begun the important job of restoring much of this material to circulation. [...] The series will reach 100 this year."

So, 100 issues by 1975 sounds like a start of 1974, at least.

Mike

I'm still not convinced about 1974. If the DB article was from 5/75, that was when the mag was still bi-monthly, right? So a lead time of no more than six weeks, tops, for a "new" item like this is reasonable, I'd think. Note also the wording - "has leased" and "has begun", which might imply, in the context, that this was a brand-new venture of a news article.

As for the 100 releases thing. I defintiely remember that once Trip started issuing, they did so torrentially. Don't know that 100 in less than a year would have been an unreasonable figure, since the stuff was literally coming out faster than I, a college student on a budget, could keep up with it.

The operation might have begun pre-release business in 1974, but if they actually released anything then, it would have been very late in the year, and I really don't recall anything coming out before 1975. Fall of '74 was my freshman year in college, and my first steady exposure to a record store w/a well-stocked and up-to-date jazz section, and I really don't remember seeing any Trip albums until the Spring semester, at the earliest.

My memory is not always totally reliable, but on this one, I'm holding my ground in a non-adamant fashion until positive proof can be provided otherwise.

Now - who is/was Wally Roker?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Everything I saw regarding the Canyon issues listed above gave dates in the 1969-1972 vintage.

Mike

The Trip mention in db was a "spotlight review" of a slew of their reissues - 13 of them with numbers between 5501 and 5538.

The other series was the 5000 (Turrentine was 5006) series. I'll do some checking but it makes sense to me that this began first.

Mike

Edited May 1, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[JSngry]

Here's what I got for Canyon, subject to confirmation:

Turrentine, Stanley: Flipped Out Canyon 7701

Errison, King: King Arrives, The Canyon 7703

Duke, Doris: I'm A Loser Canyon 7704

Simone, Nina: Gifted & Black Canyon 7705

Swamp Dogg: Total Destruction To Your Mind Canyon 7706

Bliss: Bliss Canyon 7707

Bolling, Tiffany: Tiffany Canyon 7708

Lynne, Gloria: Happy And In Love Canyon 7709

Wanderly, Walter: Return Of The Original, The Canyon 7711

Phillips, Sandra: Too Many People In One Bed Canyon 7712

Mike

An interesting array of artists, to be sure. The roster seems to be aimed at a particular demographic, one which reminds me of more than a few people I've known over the years who dig Walter Wanderly, Nina Simone, and Swamp Gogg in equal measure.

Sounds like , I know, but I swear, they're out there!

[JSngry]

Everything I saw regarding the Canyon issues listed above gave dates in the 1969-1972 vintage.

Mike

That would seem to settle that then.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Albert Heath's Kawaida (Trip 5032) was reviewed in db 6/6/74 p.27.

Announcement from db 3/14/74 p.46 -

"Phonogram Records (formerly Mercury Records) has announced the leasing of over 200 long-dormant jazz recordings to Trip Records, who will make them available to the public for the first time in years, all of them on 8-track tape as well as disc. The recordings, culled from the Emarcy, Limelight, Mercury, and Philips labels, include albums by Clifford Brown, Sarah Vaughan, Max Roach, Dinah Washington, Quincy Jones, Maynard Ferguson, Roland Kirk (before Rahsaanica), Eric Dolphy, Milt Jackson, and Dizzy Gillespie. A minimum of 60 albums will be released by Trip in the next 12 months."

Mike

Edited May 1, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[JSngry]

So it is. And by John Litweiler no less. So, again, that settles that.

Can you find review dates for the Brown?Roach & other Emarcy reissues? Those are the ones that brought Trip to my attention, and if I find out they started in mid-1974, I'm going to start looking into assisted-living facitlites or something... A mind's memory is a terrible thing to waste, and mine might well be on its way. Guess I shoulda taken notes along the way...

Is the Wally Roker of Canyon Records the same Wally Roker who was in Shep & The Limelights?

[JSngry]

Some brief info on Doris Duke's Canyon album: http://66.232.131.72/MoreInfo/CDKEND242.html

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Brown/Roach are included in the 13 LPs reviewed: Brown/Roach Inc., Study In Brown, Basin Street.

Can't say for certain based on this but obviously issued sometime between March 1974 and May 1975.

I'll put a Trip Records listing on my website in a minute.

Mike