What happened to the clarinet?

[A Lark Ascending]

There's alot of clarinet in jazz in Europe at present. I saw Fredrik Lungkvist play some wonderful clarinet with Atomic last weekend (Ken Vandermark too). Louis Sclavis, Gianluigi Trovesi, Gabrielle Mirabassi and Sebastien Texier all play beautiful clarinet (and we musn't forget long timer, Tony Coe).

Perhaps it has something to do with the way much jazz in Europe today avoids the neo-bop approach; could the folk base of some jazz in Europe be more conducive to the clarinet?

Just speculating.

I'm pleased to hear it more and more. It makes a very nice contrast to the usual saxes. Love the bass clarinet too.

Edited May 5, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[JSngry]

A couple of people have mentioned the thinning tone in the context of bop lines--why would the speed or the harmonic challenges of bop impact the tone?

Same reason that the Hodges/Carter alto tone "thinned out" - the detail of the older tone wouldn't necessarily be there when the line moved faster and/or with the more "bobbing & weaving" accents of bebop. Same thing happened with pretty much all the instruments.

Really, I don't hear it so much as "thinning out" (lots of bop & hard bop players on all instruments had nice fat tones) as much as morphing or shape-shifting.. If you think of music in "physics" terms, then a musical expression can be seen as potential energy turned kinetic, and like all kinetic energy, the tendency is to eventually find the most efficient form of release. Tone is one part of that, a big part, so a tone that best allows the energy to emerge in its most effecient shape is desireable. Energy spent on a tone that is "too big" for the other parts of the expression is energy that comes at the expense of the other factors at play within that expression .

Sorry, words are failing me now, but I hope that I'm communicating the gist of the idea.

[Joe M]

Unless you've played the clarinet, (and I mean really PLAYED the instrumnet) and tried to make it fit in a bop context, you probably won't understand. It's a monster of an instrument. Playing bop on the clarinet is like driving an old 31 Chevy truck. No power steering, no power brakes, and when you start going fast, things get a little scary. A nice alto or tenor sax feels like a nice big Cadillac with 400 horsepower and air suspension after that. The only guy who REALLY impresses me playing bop on the clarinet is Paquito D'Rivera. Much respect to Buddy, he's a fine, even great, player, but Paquito does stuff I haven't heard anyone else do, and he does it so effortlessly. It takes a LOT of work.

[montg]

the detail of the older tone wouldn't necessarily be there when the line moved faster and/or with the more "bobbing & weaving" accents of bebop

Really, I don't hear it so much as "thinning out" (lots of bop & hard bop players on all instruments had nice fat tones) as much as morphing or shape-shifting.. If you think of music in "physics" terms, then a musical expression can be seen as potential energy turned kinetic, and like all kinetic energy, the tendency is to eventually find the most efficient form of release

I think I follow this, generally. Maybe the thinness of the clarinet in bop contexts is more noticeable to me, compared to other instruments, because I'm particularly fond of that deep, woody sound that CAN come from the clarinet.

Bechet playing Blue Horizon on clarinet is one of the greatest glories of jazz--the beauty of the instrument comes through even with the relatively primitive recording methods.

Edited May 5, 2005 by montg

[wolff]

You could probably piece together a real nice comp of Art Pepper on clarinet. He called it the most difficult horn to play.

Edited May 6, 2005 by wolff

[king ubu]

There's alot of clarinet in jazz in Europe at present. I saw Fredrik Lungkvist play some wonderful clarinet with Atomic last weekend (Ken Vandermark too). Louis Sclavis, Gianluigi Trovesi, Gabrielle Mirabassi and Sebastien Texier all play beautiful clarinet (and we musn't forget long timer, Tony Coe).

Perhaps it has something to do with the way much jazz in Europe today avoids the neo-bop approach; could the folk base of some jazz in Europe be more conducive to the clarinet?

Just speculating.

I'm pleased to hear it more and more. It makes a very nice contrast to the usual saxes. Love the bass clarinet too.

Interesting point, Bev!

I think this may have something to do with what one could call "mediterranean" jazz. Trovesi and Mirabassi and (to a lesser extent) Sclavis are all musicians that spill over with joy and exuberance, yet are able to play very lyrical, too. And indeed their music is beyond the American concept(s) of jazz, most of the time, rather taking to their European roots, adding folk influences and traditional European music to the mix. Often I find their music to be very interesting, and frankly I cannot think of an American clarinet player up in their league, these days (just don't come up with Don Byron now, please, willya!). These guys are creative and are technically brilliant, they are more than just (I don't mean that in a dismissive way, rather stilistically speaking) "jazz musicians" (maybe the German word "Musikant" would be more fitting than the word "Musiker" [which I suppose has the same meaning as "musician", though I'm not sure]).

And it is worth noting that most of the younger European clarinet players are either Italian or French. There are others for sure, Tony Coe, or Michel Portal - to add another older man - who is Basque.

[AmirBagachelles]

I've tried to appreciate Buddy DeFranco, but his tone just sounds so grating to me.

I think DeFranco sounds like heaven. His music as collected on the Mosaic set will probably always be my favorite jazz. It just hit me hard at the right time in my life. Jimmy Hamilton's music and tone too.

[frank m]

You know, you guys frequently amaze me. Your knowledge of modern jazz is enormous, and your appreciation of it. But what I am amazed at is your ignorance of a brand of jazz that's been going on simultaneously, seemingly without your knowledge or appreciation. You probably classify it in with old hat dixieland,which I'm sure you are aware of, but that isn't it. What I'm talking about is a brand of more or less straight ahead small group jazz as played by guys like the following.

Duke Heitger,Randy Sandke, Warren Vache, Bob Barnard,Joe Wilder, Jon-Erik Kelso,Randy Reinhart TRUMPETS(Cornet and Flugelhorn)

Dan Block, Harry Allen, Ted Nash, Scott Hamilton, Scott Robinson (Reeds)

Dan Barrett, Bob Havens,George Masso,Ray Anderson(trombone)

Vince Giordano (Bass,Bass Sax)

Dick Hyman, John Sheridan,Keith Ingham, Mark Shane,James Dapogny, Derek Smith (Piano)

Marty Gross, Howard Alden, Frank Vignola (Guitar)

And finally, the clarinetists, whose work is really unmentioned on this site.

Ken Peplowski, Kenny Davern, Bob Wilbur,Allen Vache.

For the most part, these guys probably have a median age somewhere in the mid forties, so they are very active musically. Bob Havens goes back to the days of the Bob Crosby band, and Dick Hyman I first became aware of when I saw him playing with Charlie Parker and Diz.

But there is little or no mention on this site of either these musicians or their concerts or other gigs. How come??????

[montg]

But there is little or no mention on this site of either these musicians or their concerts or other gigs. How come??????

That's a good question. I have some Warren Vache, which I like well enough, but it's been a while since I've listened to it. For me, I guess there's a sense of energy or maybe immediacy that's lacking in this genere. I grew up in the rock era and the music that's of my time, so to speak, is music that's loud and fast.

Incidentally, I love the Chicago jazz (Condon) and swing era music played by the originators (I include Davern & Braff & Wilber here)--for some reason the immediacy and energy in those older recordings is very present for me.

One thing I've always wondered is why very few African American artists (and Latinos, for that matter) seem to be drawn to the Vache-Hamilton axis of swing style.

[mmilovan]

my favorite clarinetist, however, is Lester Young -

Mine too. Why did Lester stop playing clarinet in the 1930s (other than that single very strange late Verve session)?

Explanation usually given is that it was stolen from his dressing room.

However, some members of Lesters early postwar groups said he played it occasionaly around 1948 or so - still no evidence on records.

Still I like Lester playing clarinet so much(I played it 5 years, and right it is real hell, but once I fall in love with its low register tones, so...), but never sucess in recognizing when its metal or wooden one on few recordings that survived...

Edited May 6, 2005 by mmilovan

[BERIGAN]

The shape of a good clarinet tone is at odds with the shape of a good bebop line. One of'em's gonna get clipped, no matter how good the player or the line is. If it don't fit, don't force it. But some people did anyways.

Just my opinion.

Jim, ever play Clarinet, or other reed instruments???? I know you play the tenor, just curious.

Edited May 6, 2005 by BERIGAN

[JSngry]

I have played clarinet. Obtaining proficiency on the instrument was required of me as a saxophone-playing Music Education major. Same with flute. But both instruments require a serious and seperate discipline to play well, and since I had/have no interest in pursuing the type of musical work where proficiency in doubling is beneficial, and since neither of those instruments "speaks" to me on a personal level, I leave 'em alone, and have for several decades now. I do play alto and soprano as the mood/need arises, but even they are different creatures than the tenor, and I figure that struggling with one voice is enough for one lifetime!

I do have a tremendous amount of respect (and depending on who it is, admiration) for those people who can double proficiently (or better). But it's just not how I'm "wired".

[JSngry]

One thing I've always wondered is why very few African American artists (and Latinos, for that matter) seem to be drawn to the Vache-Hamilton axis of swing style.

Maybe it's not relevant to thier lifestyle?

[nemo7]

seems in times when different music forms some "instruments" "voices" "techniques" what you have fit notat that special time and though not negleted get relegated into some temporary deaf past or rezerektid on into another sound cycle, ya

[JSngry]

ya!

[Dave James]

The "doublers" that blow me away are people like Benny Carter and Ira Sullivan, who can play reeds and brass with almost equal facility. That's something.

Up over and out.