Phish Corner

[md655321]

With the Grateful Dead thread at 29 pages, I figure the new generation of jammers deserve some respect. As much as I love the dead, they really can't touch Phish as far as sheer musicianship (and I would argue creativity) goes. I think Phih's quirky songwriting tends to throw alot of people off, but their live shows are fantastic. Their musical empathy with each other comes closer to jazz than anyone else in the rock world.

So anyone else agree?

[Guest akanalog]

dude. welcome to 2005. phish broke up.

unless you have been living under a rock for the last ten years i think calling phish the "new generation of jammers" is a little off. there are no more shows. no more quirky compositions. i am sorry.

[Guest akanalog]

however i will add i think livephish, which is a very douch-ey run organization, seems to have released the island tour as a multiple disc thing. and the little bit of space between the 4/4/98 birds of a feather and also sprach zathustra is pretty tight and gets me every time. maybe since i was there that evening.

[Guest akanalog]

also i will add this seems like a bizarre time to get into a phish/dead thing since both bands are defunct. i think at this point looking back, it is pretty obvious that there are not many musical comparisons to be made between the two bands.

[md655321]

By new generation I mean post Dead. If a defunct Dead (or atleast mostly defunct) can get 29 pages, I think Phish merits some discussion.

And I agree, the only really comparison for the bands is how their fans approach their music. Obsessing over diferent versions of songs and different eras, and almost always collecting full shows.

If you are unfamiliar with Phish, try checking out some live stuff between 92-98ish. Fantastic stuff. livephish.com has internet radio station playing some great stuff usually.

[Guest akanalog]

well the dead do a better job of getting good sounding desired shows out there for purchase.

livephish makes dumb choices and doesn't put enough out there. if they did, people might be more excited.

also-i think on this organissimo board many people are post-phish age but were there for the dead.

and i think the older you are the stupider phish might seem.

i am speaking for others-i have been to about 50 phish shows i think. i am not a big fan though.

[Guest akanalog]

but for real-the dead are getting love on here because they keep putting out nicely packaged quality performances from the archives.

[md655321]

Interesting take on it. But very off base as far as "the older you are the stupider they are." Quality music knows no bounds. And quirkiness sure as hell doesnt scare people away from Frank Zappa.

I will agree that Livephis doesnt make the best choices, mainly because they have primarily released the current post 2000 stuff, which is definitely substandard. But the phish live releases that made the stores have been uniformly excellent music.

And I am perfectly aware that many people on this board are before Phish's time, which is why I borught them up. There is alot of amazing music that they have created, and fans of jam bands will likely find something they enjoy in Phish. They are incredibly tight (pre-2000) with musicians that far outrank any Grateful Dead members.

[Tony Pusey]

50 shows and you are not much of a fan !!!?

Well I loved the Dead and iI only saw them 7 or 8 times!( It helps of course to live in Europe.....) Big fan of Quicksilver and Mad River and I never saw them either, sigh....

[Guest akanalog]

it was tough not to go to phish shows in high school and college.

good times. i'm not complaining.

but i'm not listening to any phish anymore either.

[sal]

Don't let negative posters shit on the parade, md655321.........thanks for starting this thread.

I was a huge phan myself, and I agree that in many aspects they were better than the Dead. They were much better musicians, and their improvisations, while very different stylistically from the Dead's, were able to lead into some really gripping, intense musical territory that the Dead never could. Of course, the style of music was wildly different, and was often written to accommodate such whirlwind flights. I am in full agreement that their songwriting was nowhere close to the Deads, and for that reason I find myself listening to more Dead than Phish as I get older. But some of the greatest memories of my life were at Phish shows. I was lucky to be able to do the Alpine Valley/Deer Creek run almost every summer.....those were some great times. I would definitely see some more shows if they decided to reunite.

Agree with the comment about their musical empathy being closer to jazz than rock.

[WD45]

Trey was no Jerry

[Guest akanalog]

the dead's best jams could reach a transcendence that phish didn't reach. i guess i would give jerry credit for this.

but i think there are more wholy satisfying phish shows out there. most shows have a stinker or two or five. but i can do without every single dead first set. and encore too for that matter. i would say that in some years (1993, 1994, 1997 to the end) a phish first set might actually have something worth hearing where they take a song in a different direction. dead first sets were pretty rote (though i mean a 1977 first set could be tight).

but saying phish are better musicians is stupid. jerry is a great player. phil lesh is a master. bob weir is a master rhythm guitarist (though he sucks at slide guitar). bill kreutzmann is a master drummer i would say too. probably fishman is better but whatever. who cares?

but they are totally different bands! this debate is about to get even worse the more people respond. it's so stupid.

[Quincy]

I went through a phase where I greatly enjoyed the jams in the longer songs. However there aren't many shows that I can listen to without hitting the skip button. I just don't care for their shorter songs and find their songwriting to be fairly weak. And I could never get into what some diehards cared about, such as appearances of "Harpua" or Gamehendge. I just haven't reached for them in quite a long time as I have so many other things to play and new stuff to explore, but I have maybe 20 shows to fall back on if I get in the mood again. Aside from '93-'95 I really like those late Novemeber/early December '97 shows.

Let's try not to let this get too ugly (ala rec.music.gdead or phish.)

[Aggie87]

At one point I had almost all of their studio recordings, as well as the couple of live albums before they went crazy releasing every damn show they ever played. I even had "Hampton Comes Alive" with it's cover of "Gettin Jiggy with It" and a boot of their "White Album" show before it was officially released.

But somewhere along the way I found myself not really enjoying alot of it..with the exception of "A Live One" and "Farmhouse" for some reason. I kept those two, and sold/traded off the rest, and still feel like I have enough Phish to keep me happy for a while.

I think they're fine rock musicians, but just didn't connect as much as I initially thought.

[Quincy]

but i can do without every single dead first set.

←

In 1972 "Playing In The Band" often ended the 1st set. "Bird Song" was part of the 1st set until "Weather Report Suite" more or less replaced it in late '73. The latter also was a first set song about half the time throughout much of '74.

So that's some of their best material right there. But then I also wouldn't want to do without "Bertha" or "Jack Straw" which could appear in either set.

Hell, I even like the cowboy songs as performed from through '74.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Quincy

[Guest akanalog]

yes true about playing and birdsong. but you can put playin onto the second set tape! and missing birdsong is a sacrifice i make not to hear another me and my uncle or el paso.

also to aggie-phish doesnt really release so many shows. i mean a lot less than the dead. and they definitely miss a lot of the good stuff. i dont think it is a great thing, but do you have slip stitch and pass? they should have released the whole show but in lieu of that if you dont have the circulating SBD, its a fine disc that could have been better (added different songs, taken others away). better than a live one or the hampton one (98 sucked-too many cute covers).

i dont think phish really made so much connecting music. a lot of it wasnt really aimed at the heart. i always found it funny when people found meaning in a lot of phish stuff that was just sort of silly. i agree that most of the gamehendge songs suck.

the later 1997 is awesome. i agree. and the one long jam in winter 95 stuff was always a monster. that is my favorite stuff though usually the rest of the shows were well played but rote outside of the one good jam in winter 1995 (excepting maybe new years 95). the later 1997 stuff could be sweet the whole way through and is my favorite stuff. really incorporated all their disparate elements together. it is too bad so much of it was dowhill afterwards though even the miami 2003 stuff has some great music and some of the late late songs like 7 below are actually pretty good compared to some earlier stuff.

[Sundog]

With the Grateful Dead thread at 29 pages, I figure the new generation of jammers deserve some respect.  As much as I love the dead, they really can't touch Phish as far as sheer musicianship (and I would argue creativity) goes.  I think Phih's quirky songwriting tends to throw alot of people off, but their live shows are fantastic.  Their musical empathy with each other comes closer to jazz than anyone else in the rock world.

So anyone else agree?

←

Never really have never been able to get into Phish. I think their all fine musicians they just don't seem to do it for me. Every couple of years I give them a listen but nothing has really stuck yet. Maybe this tread will reawaken my interest and point me in the right direction.

P.S. For me, the Derek Trucks Band heads up the post-Phish jam band scene. Absolute top of the heap! Oh yeah, that other band he plays in is pretty good too!

[gdogus]

LOVE Phish.

My favorite years are 1990-1997, with a huge "thank you" for "Harry Hood," "You Enjoy Myself," "Slave to the Traffic Light," "David Bowie," "Reba," "Mike's Song > Weekapaug Groove," and many more.

Went to many shows and enjoyed them all. Quirky, weird, exciting times.

I'm 43 and still listen fairly often.

[Quincy]

But somewhere along the way I found myself not really enjoying alot of it..with the exception of "A Live One" and "Farmhouse" for some reason.  I kept those two, and sold/traded off the rest, and still feel like I have enough Phish to keep me happy for a while. 

←

I came late to them so I did what many kids do now; I just relied on CDRs of live shows. Oh wait, I did buy a few of the official Live releases too.

I had the same "somewhere along the way" sensation. I've kept more than I probably need just as insurance, though I may trim the herd some more when shelf space problems arise again. A year ago I ended up trading 30+ Phish CDRs for 2 pints of Dead Guy Ale and a enough to tip the bartender. I thought it was a great trade.

For me Phish was like cotton candy. It was tasty at the time but not that nourishing. But I don't rule out having their music click with me again someday. Cause when it did, it really clicked.

[md655321]

Its interesting how the responses tend to be fairly similar. I got into Phish hugh in the summer of 2000, and only saw them live once. I have a good 30 or so shows, and some weeks I can go without listening to them all, and some weeks I can listen only too Phish. The first time I heard a live version of Run Like an Antelop I was absolutely hooked. I thought their ability to continually build the tension in a song for a long times up into one giant Trey stinging note was unbelievable. I want to shy away from the Dead comparisons as well, but I dont think ANYONE has ever been able to build up a song as well as they could. Trey is no Jerry, but Jerry surely is no Trey.

Maybe Ill fall out of loved with them as well, but I doubt it. I listened to a tasty Divided Sky today that was enough to make my week.

[WD45]

I listened to a tasty Divided Sky today that was enough to make my week.

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When it is all said and done, that is what really matters. I know the feeling.

[.:.impossible]

Timely. I was listening to the IT soundcheck on the way home tonight. I'm going to have to grab the Tower set for tomorrow. I'd also suggest listening to some of the Big Cypress New Year's set if you think Phish didn't have substance.

Only fans complain about specific shows, releases, or organizational crap. Everyone else could care less.

I don't listen to Phish like I did when I was 20, but I still listen on occassion and it usually hits the spot when I do.

My first show was at Lawrence Joel Memorial in Greensboro, NC 1995 followed by Hampton Coliseum 1995. My last show was Great Woods, MA 2004.

The only festival I saw was Big Cypress down in the Everglades. I loved every minute of it, including the traffic.

Phish gave me and my friends some great times. I have no reason to bitch about anything!

[Quincy]

Maybe Ill fall out of loved with them as well, but I doubt it.  I listened to a tasty Divided Sky today that was enough to make my week.

←

I must admit this thread has rekindled an interest. Things like Divided Sky and the lineup of songs mentioned in gdogus's post especially. Better get to it before the Conns arrive!

Edited to add I threw on Hampton 11-22-97 and now 5 songs in. I retract the cotton candy remark earlier. Very nice!

Edited October 7, 2005 by Quincy

[Guest]

Hell, I am listening to Phish right now so I thought I would add my .02 cents. I have never been a big GD fan. I have a live in Europe comp and their greatest hits. Phish on the other hand, I have all of their studio albums and tons of live shows. Never made it to a show though. Their early 90s stuff is pretty good and I think they play well right up to around 98 or so. Some of their shows after they got back together were pretty good as well. 94 and 97 tend to be my favorite years. Bathtub Gin, Cities, Wolfman's Brother, Weekapaug Groove, Farmhouse. They had several GREAT songs. How many good songs did GD have? 2? I am not bashing GD, I just dont think there is much comparison. GD is for people that grew up in the 70s and Phish is more for people that grew up in the 90s, although anyone can listen to either band no matter how old they are.