vajerzy Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...fromZR40QQfviZ1 I'm going to sell some dirt from my spikes that I wore in my softball league championship game. No reserve....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 ...while unique, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen......and I've seen some dumb things! m~ ....now, how much for that dirt???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 The guy says 'thanks!' for all the international support they're getting. Just imagine if he vacuum sealed that teriyaki bowl or asian chicken salad -- bet the deep pocket eBayers in Indonesia and Bhutan would just go wild bidding that up into the tens-of-thousands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Attention Seattle Seahawk fans.....you AREN'T the 12th Man! A&M unhappy with Seahawks use of the"12th man" If you've been paying attention to the NFL Playoffs the past couple weeks, then you've probably heard the announcers on FOX refer to the Seattle Seahawks and their "12th man" theme, which is a huge #12 flag that flies above the Space Needle. The team has invited former players and sports figures in the community to raise the flag before home games. The 12th man theme is also a punctuation of the stadium noise from the sell-out crown at Qwest Field. But there a slight problem with this, as Texas A&M University owns the registered trademark to the "12th man" with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) and the Texas Secretary of State Office. This issue has recently been brought to the attention of the university, namely Director of Athletics Bill Byrne, and he stated that he is currently on the case to get the NFL club to stop using the trademark. Byrne mentioned that he had similar situations with the Buffalo Bills and Chicago Bears, and they immediately stopped using the trademark once asked, but it hasn't been so simple with the Seahawks franchise so far. The 12th man tradition began in 1922 during a game between Texas A&M and Centre College, and became especially popular during the Jackie Sherrill era at the school when he began field a kickoff unit featuring all walk-ons. During that time, the unit never allowed an opponent to run a kick back for a touchdown. Nearly 15 years later, current head coach Dennis Franchione reinstated the all walk-on kick unit this past season. With the Seahawks and owner Paul Allen's refusal so far to drop the 12th man theme, the Texas A&M Aggies could have a good ol' fight on their hands before they even kickoff the 2006 season. Edited January 28, 2006 by Aggie87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 One of the many reasons I left Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 I don't understand your comment, Troy. The school has a trademark on "The 12th Man", and it has been in use there since 1922. It bothers you that they are trying to protect what they feel is theirs? Or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) FWIW, the "12th Man" is one of the names on the Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame at Ralph Wilson Stadium. 12th Man Edited January 29, 2006 by Ed Swinnich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I found this photo online - it was taken around 1930, and is of Kyle Field, the A&M football stadium. I think it's safe to say that the "12th Man" has belonged to A&M for a bit longer than the Seahawks, who didn't play their first game until 1976. It's also interesting that Kyle Field averaged 79,700 in attendance last year (during an admittedly bad season), while the capacity of the Seahawk's Qwest Field is 67,000. It's interesting to me to see the Seahawks appear to try to brush this issue off as some little college down in Texas with their feathers ruffled. Kyle Field today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 (edited) That's fantastic. I had a similar argument years back with an Aggie friend who was defending the incident of charging at people with swords to protect the War Memorial that is the field. I also recall an interview with the mother of a freshman killed when the bonfire collapsed. She was fully clad in A&M garb saying, essentially, that the tradition was more important than the risk to student's lives. I get it. If you're an Aggie it makes sense, if you're not it all seems a bit cultish. Granted legally if they copywrited the term they can make a court case out of it, but it's not the offense that you see it as. If you get the city of Seattle to take the plain blue flag with the plain white #12 on it off of the Spaceneedle what will you have acomplished? Aggies will see it as some kind of holy sanctium and everyone else will see it as petty and stupid. There are bigger issues in the world if you get off campus and start talking to people who haven't been indoctrinated. Congrats on your attendance at Kyle Field. The rest of us are far inferior. Edited January 30, 2006 by TroyK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 (edited) That's fantastic. I had a similar argument years back with an Aggie friend who was defending the incident of charging at people with swords to protect the War Memorial that is the field. I also recall an interview with the mother of a freshman killed when the bonfire collapsed. She was fully clad in A&M garb saying, essentially, that the tradition was more important than the risk to student's lives. I get it. If you're an Aggie it makes sense, if you're not it all seems a bit cultish. Granted legally if they copywrited the term they can make a court case out of it, but it's not the offense that you see it as. If you get the city of Seattle to take the plain blue flag with the plain white #12 on it off of the Spaceneedle what will you have acomplished? Aggies will see it as some kind of holy sanctium and everyone else will see it as petty and stupid. There are bigger issues in the world if you get off campus and start talking to people who haven't been indoctrinated. Congrats on your attendance at Kyle Field. The rest of us are far inferior. I'm not going to defend anyone pulling sabers out and charging other people. I heard about that incident way back in the late 70's or early 80's. Those people hopefully were kicked out of the Corps of Cadets, if not the school. And I don't think anyone's life is worth risking to build a bonfire. I'd like to see the bonfire come back (officially, anyway - there is already an unofficial one that takes place off school grounds), but only after some sort of security/safety system is in place to prevent further loss of life. Jeez, I just brought this up because I found it interesting. I also found your comments about leaving Texas because of A&M interesting. You seem to have something against the school, and I'm curious about it. I never claimed anything about superiority in anything. And I'm rooting for the Seahawks in the Superbowl too. Have nothing against them. I don't care if A&M "wins" or "loses" this legal battle, personally. Just thought it was a topical story right now, and I found it interesting. Edited January 30, 2006 by Aggie87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 All right, sorry. Perhaps I over reacted. It is inaccurate for me to claim that I left Texas because of A&M. There were lots of reasons and it's my ancestrial home, so to speak, so there are things I love about it and things that I don't miss. Arguing about the sanctity of things that are not inheriently sacred is one of them. But, you're right, you just posted a news story and my decades of built up annoyance got the better of me. Honestly, when I started seeing the 12th man stuff here I thought of A&M, but it's just a #12. Evidently it's been something that has been used here since the 70's. I grew up with all those great Dallas Cowboy teams and it's special to see these lifetime Seahawks fans finally have a chance at the Superbowl. It means a lot to them. So comparisons to attendance in College Station just seem spiteful to me. I will question why A&M didn't file their lawsuit anytime in the last 30 years instead of waiting until Seahawks fans had something to celebrate. You're right, though. I have scars from too many of those arguments in my past, usually with good friends or my cousins. As far as copywrites and trademarks go, law doesn't always equate to right. Phil Jackson, I think trademarked the term "3Peat" so that no one could use it without paying him money. Prince's record label trademarked his name so he had to change it to that stupid symbol. I equate it to people registering domains like juliaroberts.com so that she can't use it. It's hard for anyone outside of College Station to draw the connection between the Seahawks fan's celebration and some damage being done to Texas A&M University. You'll still have great attendance and allumni support and you'll continue cranking out the devout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 No apologies necessary Troy. I was just curious. I've gone overboard in my support for A&M here and there. I probably went overboard with the stadium comparisons too, but my intent was to show that it wasn't just some small rinky-dink college that was complaining, but a pretty large university. And I don't understand why the A&M folks didn't say something sooner as well. Seems like that's something they would have noticed and responded to a long time ago. Anyway, no harm, no foul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Wow, what an example we are for everyone about how to disagree and quickly make peace with each other! I'm WELL aware of the size and fury of Texas A&M University, no worries there. Peace, see you on the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 As far as copywrites and trademarks go, law doesn't always equate to right. Phil Jackson, I think trademarked the term "3Peat" so that no one could use it without paying him money. . Actually, I believe it is Pat Riley who owns the trademark for "3Peat". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 As far as copywrites and trademarks go, law doesn't always equate to right. Phil Jackson, I think trademarked the term "3Peat" so that no one could use it without paying him money. . Actually, I believe it is Pat Riley who owns the trademark for "3Peat". You know, as I was typing that I wasn't sure I had it right. Thanks for the edit. So, not to pick this argument up here, since we've all made peace on it, but this s*** is hitting the fan now in Seattle. What we neglected to mention here is the A&M trademarked the term "12th Man" in 1990 and the Seahawks retired a jersey with the #12 and the name "fan" on it in our ring of honor in 1984. I was under the impression that A&M had had this term trademarked for much longer. As someone pointed out, other NFL teams use the term as well both formally in informally. On the news this morning was some shaved headed freshman saying "it's about honor, tradation and disapline, something the Seahawks do not have." As I said, this sort of thing comes off as very cultish when viewed with unindoctrinated eyes. Many of the arguments that we made in this forum are showing up in the press an opinion columns now. Why didn't they make an issue of this before, since we've been using the term all along? Why wait until the week before our 1st Superbowl in 30 years? Why not sue the Buffalo Bills? Because they are celebrating anything right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 I agree with you, Troy, on the timing. I think the general population down in Texas doesn't see to many Seahwak games, so probably wasn't aware of the 12th Man thing there. But I'm would surely think the A&M legal eagles who are bent on protecting this thing (for whatever it's worth anyway) would have said something long ago. I think that was a tacky thing for that kid to say by the way, too. I'm surprised that the 12th Man thing was not trademarked 50 yrs ago, to be honest. Maybe the powers to be didn't realize there was $$ to be made from it until then, or something. Who knows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 I'm so frigging sick of trademarks and protecting slogans. Anything that a 12 year old can think of (like 3peat or 12th man) is way too common to be granted a trademark. I think I heard the other day that Paris Hilton is trying to trademark "It's Hot." We're literally carving up the English language and giving it away to corporate entities for no good reason whatsoever (so what else is new). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) Interesting comments in this article about the possible motive behind this stuff. Seattle has one 12th Man too many No Aggie joke: A&M files for restraining order vs. Seahawks That it happened on Halloween 25 years ago turned out to be apropos, because the whole thing looked sort of scary at first. The officer of the day for the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets brandished his saber at an SMU cheerleader who dared step on Kyle Field's football grid to celebrate a Pony Express trampling that day of the Aggies. Fortunately, all that ensued was a brief wrestling match. The whole thing wound up to be a hoot. If any injury was suffered, it was to the perception of those who bleed maroon and white and consider Kyle Field turf some sort of sacred ground. Are they crazy, or what? Not that Aggies care what the rest of us think. They live to be a little different. As their saying goes: "From the outside, you can't understand it. From the inside, you can't explain it." The Seattle Seahawks, who just arrived in Detroit for Sunday's Super Bowl, probably weren't aware of that most-infamous event at Kyle Field that underscored the quirkiness that constitutes Aggiedom. But they know now. The Aggies just brandished their weaponry once again when they filed for a restraining order against the Seahawks on Monday. They're miffed that the Seahawks have started employing a 12th man slogan that A&M made famous for decades and trademarked in 1990. The Seahawks have hung a banner emblazoned with the number 12 on their home stadium, Qwest Field, and their team shop is selling game jerseys and pennants with the number. A fan Web site has computer wallpaper that can be downloaded which reads: "At Home We are the 12th Man" and "On the Road We are the 12th Man." "Calling your fans a 12th man is one thing," A&M's chief marketing officer, Steve Moore, explained to me Monday. Using it commercially, Moore said, is quite another. So A&M responded by asking Seattle to cease and desist, just as they've asked the Bears and the Bills to drop 12th Man type slogans in previous years. Moore said the Bears and Bills responded by shutting down any such references. The Seahawks responded by saying they haven't copied A&M's stamp and, in fact, have merely resurrected their own 12th man rallying cry from the early '80s, well before A&M trademarked the number. The cynic in me responds by saying this is more about A&M athletic director Bill Byrne, who was so successful at drumming up interest and dollars for Nebraska before being lured to College Station, seizing an opportunity to publicize his employer. There is not an Aggie joke here. This may not be serious business, but it is business nonetheless. For what A&M has just done is interject its name at no cost to itself into the biggest sports event of the year, where seconds of advertisement are sold for millions of dollars. It's the kind of move the inventors of Guinness brew would term "brilliant!" Texas fans, of course, would point out that it almost beats being in the BCS national championship game and winning it. After all, who is going to confuse the Seahawks' 12th man cry with A&M's 12th Man Foundation? No one. Can Seattle's use of the number 12 to pump up their fans really siphon off fund-raising or sales of 12th Man merchandise in College Station? Not a chance. Moore said the reason his office is complaining about the Seahawks is to demonstrate how serious it is about having trademarked the slogan 16 years ago. He said federal trademark officials demand such concern if the keeper of the trademark is to be taken seriously anytime a case threatening its trademark comes up. "We're happy for them," Moore said of the Seahawks' success. He pointed out that the Seahawks' strength trainer, Mike Clark, was the Aggies' strength trainer for 14 years. Seahawks defensive tackle Rocky Bernard is an Aggie, too. Seattle's use of "12" isn't just of little threat to A&M; it doesn't make much sense for the Super Bowl, either. The Super Bowl participating teams only get a small percentage of the seats at the big game. The NFL caters its title game for corporate sponsors. It doesn't arrange it for long-suffering season-ticket holders like those who've supported the Seahawks, a club that hadn't won a playoff game in over a generation, let alone ever advanced to the Super Bowl. But one thing you can say about the Seahawks' use of the 12th man motto is it's not real imaginative. As representatives of a city that gave us the new business paradigm Microsoft, the Seahawks marketing department should be forced to cough up the slogan just on sheer lack of creativity. And they probably will, next Monday. Edited February 1, 2006 by Aggie87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 There was also an article in one of the Seattle papers about the restraining order. It basically said the Seahawks organization has to stop selling things with the slogan "12th Man" on them, but after a pretty good search, they couldn't find anything with that slogan on it for sale. It's a term that gets used a lot and Seahawks jerseys with the #12 on them are popular, but that's not protected by the trademark. The flag on the Spaceneedle and at the Governers mansion is blue with a white "12" on it. No Seahawks logo and without the term "12th Man". It's really an expression that gets used here, more than a marketing slogan or certainly anything being productized. If I were compelled to file a trademark, I would do so because of some concern that others would infringe on it and I would do a search. Had they done a search in 1990, when they filed, they would have found that the Seahawks, Bills and others had formal statements about a "12th Man" cemented into their stadia and could have dealt with it then if they were so inclined, petitioned to have those referrences removed from the buildings and instructed the teams to stop using the term. There would have certainly been a court case over it and I'm not sure who would have won, but it wouldn't have been pooping in anyone's sandbox in their one moment of glory in a long-troubled history. This is surprising to people who don't have a context for A&M. It is not to people who do. I'm envious of the support and enthusiam they have on campus for their school, but it's troubling that they take it out into the world as though this stuff is really bigger than simply college sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftab Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 (edited) As a former Seattle resident living in Green Bay, it was hard for me to score up some new 'Hawks gear to wear and display this weekend, so my mother-in-law in Portland, OR sent us a box of stuff. The now coolest thing in that box - an officialy licensed 8" magnet with the Seahawk logo and "12th Man" slogan. Displaying it proudly. Oh, and I just copyrighted the internet message abbreviation "lol", so I bet a lot of you owe me like $5 or something. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but Texas kinda scares me a little. But anyplace that is the home of Jim Sangrey can't be all bad Edited February 3, 2006 by Aftab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 [ I don't mean to offend anyone here, but Texas kinda scares me a little. But anyplace that is the home of Jim Sangrey can't be all bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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