"Waltz for Debby" - a "My Conception" rip-off?

[Daniel A]

I wasn't aware about this "rumour". I thought that "Waltz for Debby" was written first, but what do I know!

From the Richard S. Ginell's AMG review of Eric Alexander's 'Solid':

...and also does a nice job with the theme of Sonny Clark's "My Conception," an ironic title given that the opening bars (and a few other besides) clearly provided the basis for Bill Evans' famous "Waltz for Debby."

A Google search brought up this statement on a few other places as well, but I couldn't find any info about when the Sonny Clark tune was actually written.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Daniel A

[Jim R]

Well... there is some similarity in the opening notes of these themes, but overall (both melodically and harmonically) there's not that much similarity, to my ears. "Clearly provided the basis for Bill Evans' famous 'Waltz for Debby' "...? I wouldn't make that assumption.

[Daniel A]

"Clearly provided the basis for Bill Evans' famous 'Waltz for Debby' "...? I wouldn't make that assumption.

Neither would I. I simply thought that Ginell knew something I didn't, as a simple check with the AMG itself reveals that 'Waltz' was recorded several years before the Clark tune.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Daniel A

[Jim R]

"Clearly provided the basis for Bill Evans' famous 'Waltz for Debby' "...? I wouldn't make that assumption.

Neither would I. I simply thought that Genell knew something I didn't, as a simple check with the AMG itself reveals that 'Waltz' was recorded several years before the Clark tune.

Right... although generally I wouldn't use AMG as a way of trying to date anything.

[Jim R]

I'm just curious... since I rarely use AMG, does anyone have opinions as to how Ginell rates as compared with other AMG reviewers in terms of accuracy and credibility? I've seen various reviewers of theirs criticized on the boards, but haven't sorted out who's who...

[Stereojack]

"Clearly provided the basis for Bill Evans' famous 'Waltz for Debby' "...? I wouldn't make that assumption.

Neither would I. I simply thought that Genell knew something I didn't, as a simple check with the AMG itself reveals that 'Waltz' was recorded several years before the Clark tune.

Right... although generally I wouldn't use AMG as a way of trying to date anything.

I wouldn't either, but Evans' own first recording of the tune was in September, 1956. This is well documented, and is long before any of Clark's recordings.

[Daniel A]

At least he has succeeded in a bit of myth-making. From the top 20 hits in a Google search for "Waltz for Debby" + "My Conception":

"Try Sonny’s “My Conception” for the origins of Bill Evans’ “Waltz For Debby.” Swinging!"

...

"Step right up and see where Bill Evans' "Waltz for Debby" originated! That gem, "My Conception" by Sonny Clark and others from the pens of people like Trane ..."

...

" "Waltz for Debby", inspired from "My conception" by Sonny Clark, is a tonal poem. ..."

[Jim R]

[Stereojack]

At least he has succeeded in a bit of myth-making. From the top 20 hits in a Google search for "Waltz for Debby" + "My Conception":

"Try Sonny’s “My Conception” for the origins of Bill Evans’ “Waltz For Debby.” Swinging!"

...

"Step right up and see where Bill Evans' "Waltz for Debby" originated! That gem, "My Conception" by Sonny Clark and others from the pens of people like Trane ..."

...

" "Waltz for Debby", inspired from "My conception" by Sonny Clark, is a tonal poem. ..."

Just goes to show that you can "prove" anything on the internet.

[JSngry]

Hey - it's all "The Way Look Tonight".

Sorta.