BFT 53 discussion

[fent99]

Disc arrived at the weekend, Enjoying the first few tunes love the groove on this and the bass sound is familiar. Track 5 grabbed me most so far with the drumming in particular excellent against the pretty tune (a bit like Some Other Time?)

More later

[John B]

Up for some air...

I'm hoping people have time to post a few more comments on the music in the next few days, but it seems like this BFT has died an early death.

Either way I will most likely go ahead and post the answers next week.

[Van Basten II]

Up for some air...

I'm hoping people have time to post a few more comments on the music in the next few days, but it seems like this BFT has died an early death.

Either way I will most likely go ahead and post the answers next week.

I apologize John, but i have an impressive backlog of CDs to go through, but with the holidays, i should be able to go through my bunch and resume my comments about the CD

[Nate Dorward]

Finally getting back to this compilation.... let's see...

4) Hm, clarinet, tuba, accordion, oud, drums. The clarinet made me think of Don Byron, but it sounded too in control to be him; & too tasteful to be Krakauer. Suppose it could be Darriau, I think he plays clarinet. Maybe Takeishi on drums. Whatever, it's a fine track that merges a variety of musical traditions, & the soloists actually construct nicely shaped solos rather than pushing for effect or exotica.

5) Hard to tell where this one's going--gospel? free? It turns out that where it's going is a drum solo by a player who actually sounds pretty familiar though I can't place him. I wonder if this made more sense in the context of the original album. Could be akLaff on the drums, just maybe. A bit too much for me.

6) Older track, I'm not going to be able to place it; it has that European-meets-African jazz vibe. Maybe Mangelsdorff in there on the trombones. A great head of steam built up on this one, kind of monotonous but almost hypnotically so!

7) Seems to be evoking the more adventurous 1960s Blue Note dates. I don't think the rhythm section is hooking up very well at the start, though maybe it's the rather squishy recording quality that gives that impression (boosting the volume helps). The Joe Hendersonish tenor is the best soloist, & when he plays it's the passage that I really feel the whole thing comes together.

8) I think I've heard this track (maybe in concert?) but can't place it. Vaguely Monkish tune, though not actually by Monk, & there's a Lacy influence here too. A lineup with clarinet, bass clarinet, trumpet, trombone, bass drums--probably wouldn't be hard to track this down! I think they overdo it a bit with the galumphing feel to the track.

9) More to my taste--a really nifty little track, with the sound of all four players very distinctive & in many ways as important as any actualy notes/tune.

10) Roll over Steve Reich & tell Gene Harris the news

Edited December 31, 2007 by Nate Dorward

[Nate Dorward]

11) some Frisellian backwards-guitar FX here, though I'm not sure it's guitar actually--probably Koch/Schuetz/Studer. I can imagine Miles Davis incorporating this into the fabric of On the Corner quite happily (in fact I'm pretty sure these guys have Miles's fusion-period exotica/percussion tracks in mind, the drummer especially).

12) nice avant-hambone groove, with a neo-Blackwell style drummer. Good stuff. I think it's younger guys referencing an earlier New Thing style of jazz.

13) Oh, this is a familiar track, forget the source though. It's Dutch. I think it's from Joost Buis's Astronotes, one of the best things from that scene in recent years. That'd be Paul Pallesen on guitar then. I'd actually mostly listened to the Ellingtonian/Sun Ra tracks on this disc but this more "outside" track is great too.

14) Nice freebop, a little weirdly recorded. Somehow not really getting under my skin though, a little too nervy for my taste; I did like it when they finally all piled in at the end.

15) I'm DEFINITELY not going to guess about this one.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Nate Dorward

[Van Basten II]

Piece 11. Nice lyrical sound, bass clarinet i guess, also enjoyed the colouring by the percussionnist/drummer.

[Van Basten II]

Piece number 12. It felt like a doughnut great start with the brass band sound great ending with a little bit of free jazz in the third part with a little hole in the middle, didn't get the slowing down of the pace for the first solo but after that it was a great ride to end, enjoyed a lot the drummers work and the overall part of what i would call the third section.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Van Basten II

[Van Basten II]

Piece 13 Back to modern times, sounds like something out of soundtrack. Wish they extrapolated it, score another one for the drummer, like the way they made the horns interact with the lead guitar. The guitar was pretty cool. also.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Van Basten II

[Van Basten II]

Piece 14 All the reasons i got into jazz in the first place are in this piece, furious exciting highpaced playing with those horns blowing away, great piano runs and a rhythm section who were playing like their pants were on fire

[Van Basten II]

Piece 15. Very festive piece to end the disc and the year. I'm pretty sure i'm supposed to recognize the tune, hope the singer does not keep on that way throughout the whole album. A little poppish but still fun.

Well, thanks for the music and happy new year John.

[John B]

11) some Frisellian backwards-guitar FX here, though I'm not sure it's guitar actually--probably Koch/Schuetz/Studer. I can imagine Miles Davis incorporating this into the fabric of On the Corner quite happily (in fact I'm pretty sure these guys have Miles's fusion-period exotica/percussion tracks in mind, the drummer especially).

Not Koch/Schuetz/Studer. The instrumentation is listed as "slide guitar, electric bass, drums and bass clarinet, clarinet and alto." I'm most familiar with the drummer's work, although in his usual group he plays in a very different style than this.

12) nice avant-hambone groove, with a neo-Blackwell style drummer. Good stuff. I think it's younger guys referencing an earlier New Thing style of jazz.

You are correct that this is "younger" guys playing in an earlier style. Good call on Blackwell. The tune is by Don Cherry and Blackwell was the drummer on the original recording.

13) Oh, this is a familiar track, forget the source though. It's Dutch. I think it's from Joost Buis's Astronotes, one of the best things from that scene in recent years. That'd be Paul Pallesen on guitar then. I'd actually mostly listened to the Ellingtonian/Sun Ra tracks on this disc but this more "outside" track is great too.

Correct! I was fairly certain you would get this one. I love this album and still find new things to appreciate each time I give it a spin.

14) Nice freebop, a little weirdly recorded. Somehow not really getting under my skin though, a little too nervy for my taste; I did like it when they finally all piled in at the end.

This is a live recording, which might account for the "weird" recording you hear. I really enjoy the band's studio recordings but this live set might be their finest moment. It is, unfortunately, now out of print.

15) I'm DEFINITELY not going to guess about this one.

I knew this one would not be loved by all, but I love the wild groove they get going. The guy on horn(s) should be familiar to most.

[John B]

Finally getting back to this compilation.... let's see...

4) Hm, clarinet, tuba, accordion, oud, drums. The clarinet made me think of Don Byron, but it sounded too in control to be him; & too tasteful to be Krakauer. Suppose it could be Darriau, I think he plays clarinet. Maybe Takeishi on drums. Whatever, it's a fine track that merges a variety of musical traditions, & the soloists actually construct nicely shaped solos rather than pushing for effect or exotica.

I really enjoy all of the leader's albums, but I feel this is one of the most succesful tracks in terms of group interplay. None of the guesses are correct. The oudist is the leader, and will probably get you to the correct album fairly quickly.

5) Hard to tell where this one's going--gospel? free? It turns out that where it's going is a drum solo by a player who actually sounds pretty familiar though I can't place him. I wonder if this made more sense in the context of the original album. Could be akLaff on the drums, just maybe. A bit too much for me.

This tune really shone when I saw the group earlier this year. Not akLaff on drums. I went back and forth on including this track but I really wanted to pick one track by this pianist, who has really been one of my favorite focuses this past year. He has had a great run of varied releases, and doesn't get a huge amount of attention. He had taken a few years off from playing piano, until he started this group up a few years back.

6) Older track, I'm not going to be able to place it; it has that European-meets-African jazz vibe. Maybe Mangelsdorff in there on the trombones. A great head of steam built up on this one, kind of monotonous but almost hypnotically so!

Correct on all counts, but not Mangelsdorff on trombone. This is a track that, in my opinion, teeters on the edge of being overly-repetitive but never quite crosses over.

7) Seems to be evoking the more adventurous 1960s Blue Note dates. I don't think the rhythm section is hooking up very well at the start, though maybe it's the rather squishy recording quality that gives that impression (boosting the volume helps). The Joe Hendersonish tenor is the best soloist, & when he plays it's the passage that I really feel the whole thing comes together.

The pianist is currently signed to Blue Note, and is definitely the biggest "name" on this album. I agree that the track takes a minute to really click. The leader (trombone) hasn't released anything for a few years, which is a shame, as both of his albums are fantastic. He had left this sound behind and was mixing in more electronics last I heard. I'm not sure what he is up to recently.

8) I think I've heard this track (maybe in concert?) but can't place it. Vaguely Monkish tune, though not actually by Monk, & there's a Lacy influence here too. A lineup with clarinet, bass clarinet, trumpet, trombone, bass drums--probably wouldn't be hard to track this down! I think they overdo it a bit with the galumphing feel to the track.

This one is self-released by the band, so it might take some digging to track down. You wouldn't have to look to far from here to find some hints, however. The album is wonderful, and deserves wider recognition than it seems to have received. I might aree with you that this one is a bit over the top, but I really enjoy the humor and vitality that comes through in the writing and playing.

9) More to my taste--a really nifty little track, with the sound of all four players very distinctive & in many ways as important as any actualy notes/tune.

All four of these players are masters and are well known as leaders. The strength of this track is in the interplay between all four of them.

10) Roll over Steve Reich & tell Gene Harris the news

Proving that "jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny."

Thank you for your comments! I really enjoyed them

Edited December 31, 2007 by John B

[John B]

Piece number 12. It felt like a doughnut great start with the brass band sound great ending with a little bit of free jazz in the third part with a little hole in the middle, didn't get the slowing down of the pace for the first solo but after that it was a great ride to end, enjoyed a lot the drummers work and the overall part of what i would call the third section.

I really enjoyed this band's work. I believe they are now defunct. I agree that the drummer is fantastic. He is getting more exposure in the past year or so and is always a blast. he is also the drummer on track #14.

[John B]

Piece 14 All the reasons i got into jazz in the first place are in this piece, furious exciting highpaced playing with those horns blowing away, great piano runs and a rhythm section who were playing like their pants were on fire

I agree completely. As I mentioned earlier, this is the same drummer and bass as track #12. This release is out of print, but I highly recommend tracking down a copy if you can find one. Their studio albums are really nice, too.

[John B]

Piece 15. Very festive piece to end the disc and the year. I'm pretty sure i'm supposed to recognize the tune, hope the singer does not keep on that way throughout the whole album. A little poppish but still fun.

Well, thanks for the music and happy new year John.

I'm fairly certain you won't be able to guess the tune. It's much more likely you could identify the guy on the horn. A little poppish, a little over the top, but I love the groove the band gets into, especially the sax.

Thanks for your comments! I really enjoyed reading them.

[Nate Dorward]

Hm... if the oud track has him as leader it's got to be either Rabih Abou-Khalil or Anouar Brahem.

If you like Astronotes do check out Bite the Gnatze too! Some of the same players there. They have a new album just out; got it in the mail but haven't spun it yet.

[sidewinder]

#6 - Great start. Catchy but too repetitious for me. Is this ska? (Honestly ignorant here ...)

Not ska. The tune was written by an african musican and the ensemble is a mix of african and british players.

Indeed it is. Track 6 on the BFT is, I think, 'MRA', written by Dudu Pukwana from the first RCA Neon 'Brotherhood of Breath' album by Chris McGregor and his cohorts. Malcolm Griffiths and Nick Evans on trombones. Mongezi Feza, Marc Charig and Harry Beckett on trumpet/cornet and variations thereof. Dudu Pukwana on alto.

This is a damn good album and highly recommended to the board readership ! Sounds like the version here is a mono copy (just checked my old vinyl and it's stereo).

This track reminds me very much of Django Bates' arrangements for Loose Tubes 10 years or so later - no doubt strongly influenced by this group.

Edited January 1, 2008 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

Piece 15. Very festive piece to end the disc and the year. I'm pretty sure i'm supposed to recognize the tune, hope the singer does not keep on that way throughout the whole album. A little poppish but still fun.

Well, thanks for the music and happy new year John.

I'm fairly certain you won't be able to guess the tune. It's much more likely you could identify the guy on the horn. A little poppish, a little over the top, but I love the groove the band gets into, especially the sax.

Thanks for your comments! I really enjoyed reading them.

Strangely enough, got this one straight off. It's Rahsaan Roland Kirk from his 'Blacknuss' album from 1971 on Atlantic, an old favourite. The track is 'One Nation' and the singer is Princess Patience Burton (Ron Burton's wife?). Charles McGhee is on trumpet, Dick Griffin on trombone, Richard Tee on piano, Keith Loving on guitar. Produced by the late, lamented, Joel Zorn.

[John B]

Indeed it is. Track 6 on the BFT is, I think, 'MRA', written by Dudu Pukwana from the first RCA Neon 'Brotherhood of Breath' album by Chris McGregor and his cohorts. Malcolm Griffiths and Nick Evans on trombones. Mongezi Feza, Marc Charig and Harry Beckett on trumpet/cornet and variations thereof. Dudu Pukwana on alto.

This is a damn good album and highly recommended to the board readership ! Sounds like the version here is a mono copy (just checked my old vinyl and it's stereo).

Correct. I have still not picked up the other BoB studio albums that were recently reissued, but plan to do so soon. Another album from these musicians that really deserves to be reissued is Dudu's "In the Townships."

[John B]

Strangely enough, got this one straight off. It's Rahsaan Roland Kirk from his 'Blacknuss' album from 1971 on Atlantic, an old favourite. The track is 'One Nation' and the singer is Princess Patience Burton (Ron Burton's wife?). Charles McGhee is on trumpet, Dick Griffin on trombone, Richard Tee on piano, Keith Loving on guitar. Produced by the late, lamented, Joel Zorn.

Correct again! It's an odd little tune, and not an album of Rahsaan's that gets discussed a lot. Such a great, great groove and Rahsaan is as distinctive as ever.

One can only imagine what these 1970's Atlantic albums would have sounded like had John Zorn produced in Dorn's place...

[sidewinder]

Indeed it is. Track 6 on the BFT is, I think, 'MRA', written by Dudu Pukwana from the first RCA Neon 'Brotherhood of Breath' album by Chris McGregor and his cohorts. Malcolm Griffiths and Nick Evans on trombones. Mongezi Feza, Marc Charig and Harry Beckett on trumpet/cornet and variations thereof. Dudu Pukwana on alto.

This is a damn good album and highly recommended to the board readership ! Sounds like the version here is a mono copy (just checked my old vinyl and it's stereo).

Correct. I have still not picked up the other BoB studio albums that were recently reissued, but plan to do so soon. Another album from these musicians that really deserves to be reissued is Dudu's "In the Townships."

I've heard that there's a 5-CD (!) set of Brotherhood of Breath shortly to be issued by Ogun. Should definitely be worth picking up !

[sidewinder]

not an album of Rahsaan's that gets discussed a lot.

It got a fair panning back in the 70s, mainly I think because of the coverage of R&B tunes and the 'period' sound of some of the tracks. The album with Al Hibbler also got bad reviews at the time too. 'Blacknuss' has stood the test of time though - some very nice music by Kirk on this album and it is a very successful 'crossover' I think.

[John B]

I've heard that there's a 5-CD (!) set of Brotherhood of Breath shortly to be issued by Ogun. Should definitely be worth picking up !

It's a Blue Notes set, not Brotherhood. No complaints from me, however:

"OGUN RECORDS

Are busy preparing the next Ogun issue, and are very pleased and excited to announce the awaited release of all the music recorded on Ogun by the legendary

BLUE NOTES

LOUIS MOHOLO-MOHOLO ~DUDU PUKWANA ~ JOHNNY DYANI

AND CHRIS McGREGOR.

A box set with Blue Notes for Mongezi, 2 full length CDs with extra material from the double LP previous release OG001/002

Blue Notes in Concert ( OG220 ) with extra material from the live concert

Blue Notes For Johnny ( OG532 ) extra material from the studio recording

All of which have never been on CD before, plus the re-issue of

Blue Notes Legacy formerly released as a CD OGCD007 which has been out of print for over a year., 5 CD BOX SET OGCD 024 - 028"