Recs for the young & still impressionable -

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Been battling with the airwaves at home and all that rises to the top is the hip hop flavor (just a pinch) of today's horribly presented redundantly whiney misogy mewzak that comes from that urban contemporary station that my nearly 13 year old thinks is soo waaay cool. For as much as I try to get that head pointed to all the things that I say are great a stone wall is around the corner.

Now, after clinking to a Stetsasonic vid - here - courtesy of elderdonohmydarlin', I was thinking that the perfect stocking stuffer might be to spin some young ears around and set her in a direction that only the fine folks at organissimo could point - (cause face it I'm just too white).

So if you had to pick say a few essential yet edgy gems from the past or recent future that might appeal to a girl - who can pick a Monk from amongst others yet that seems not good enough for her - in order keep her out of the field of suburban grazers. Any bits of interest would help. Thanks

[JSngry]

Wrong tact, trying to get her into something you want her to like. Nah gunnah wuhk.

Instead, try taking the stuff that you really hate and start acting like you really REALLY dig it. In not too much time, she'll start liking it less and less.

Besides, most of the stuff I like in these areas are things my kids either don't like or are somewhat noncomittal about. But that's cool - they listen to what they listen to for their reasons, and I listen to what I listen to for my reasons.

Gotta say though, that some sort of Public Enemy "Best-Of" oughta make for some warm family memories. The girls all know Flav these days, and the guys still dig Chuck D's edge. So it'll be two different sets of reasons digging the same music. But it's good stuff, so hey, take it.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Been battling with the airwaves at home and all that rises to the top is the hip hop flavor (just a pinch) of today's horribly presented redundantly whiney misogy mewzak that comes from that urban contemporary station that my nearly 13 year old thinks is soo waaay cool. For as much as I try to get that head pointed to all the things that I say are great a stone wall is around the corner.

Now, after clinking to a Stetsasonic vid - here - courtesy of elderdonohmydarlin', I was thinking that the perfect stocking stuffer might be to spin some young ears around and set her in a direction that only the fine folks at organissimo could point - (cause face it I'm just too white).

So if you had to pick say a few essential yet edgy gems from the past or recent future that might appeal to a girl - who can pick a Monk from amongst others yet that seems not good enough for her - in order keep her out of the field of suburban grazers. Any bits of interest would help. Thanks

Jim's right, of course. But listen carefully

IF YOUR KID CAN PICK OUT MONK AT 13 YEARS OF AGE, WHAT ARE YOU WORRYING ABOUT?

It doesn't matter if she doesn't LIKE it. She's had an education!

MG

[Hot Ptah]

I agree with JSngry. It has been impossible for me to "guide" my eleven year old daughter into jazz or other worthy music.

She has heard a great deal of jazz and classical around the house since she was born, and thus hates all of it, or at best takes it for granted as background wallpaper. "Her music" is the pop music of today. Within that context, she has some discrimination. She does not care for Hannah Montana while many of the girls in her class were bragging for weeks about how they were going to see Montana in concert.

I have taken her to live jazz concerts, of accessible music, and she has not enjoyed it.

She just doesn't care for jazz or any other music which my wife or I might like. As JSngry said, by trying to force the issue, it only creates a deeper backlash.

This has all to do with independence, setting her own identity, and getting involved with the young music of today. I did the same thing when I was young. I refused to listen to my parents' show tunes albums and classical albums. They had one Art Tatum album in the bunch too. No, I was into my Beatles and Crosby Stills and Nash and Led Zeppelin, which my parents found incomprehensible.

I would completely give up, live and let live, and don't worry about what your children listen to or try to change the situation. It will only create negative feelings and will not change their listening. Maybe someday, in their late 20s to early 40s, they will have a jazz epiphany and think, hey, my dad has a great music collection. I think it is unlikely to happen for decades, though.

[JSngry]

IF YOUR KID CAN PICK OUT MONK AT 13 YEARS OF AGE, WHAT ARE YOU WORRYING ABOUT?

It doesn't matter if she doesn't LIKE it. She's had an education!

MG

Neither of my kids are real "jazz buffs" or anything, although my son enjoys it as part of his musical buffet. But they both have strongly non-mainstream tastes, and show what I would consider discernment therein. Even if I don't dig a lot of it, I can tell that they can tell good from bad therein, and that they can seperate music from hype at some level. So I'm happy. They're listening & thinking for themselves, and that's really all I could ask for.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I guess I'm less trying to get her into something I like than getting a kernel of direction for the stuff that she thinks she likes. I can pretty much like anything (but if they play bagpipes at my funeral I'm getting out of the ground and going Blutarski).

After seeing that old Stetsasonic vid I thought what better way to get her going against the grain (which she certainly has no probs about) and introducing her to the real deal - music that appeals to that hippity hop thing that she listens to more than a wee bit and showing her the most creative side of that style ... hence calling the board.

[Hot Ptah]

I guess I'm less trying to get her into something I like than getting a kernel of direction for the stuff that she thinks she likes. I can pretty much like anything (but if they play bagpipes at my funeral I'm getting out of the ground and going Blutarski).

After seeing that old Stetsasonic vid I thought what better way to get her going against the grain (which she certainly has no probs about) and introducing her to the real deal - music that appeals to that hippity hop thing that she listens to more than a wee bit and showing her the most creative side of that style ... hence calling the board.

I still don't think she will like it. If my parents had told me when I was 13, "in addition to the albums you have, you should give a listen to this great rock band we've read about"--I would have immediately put that rock band, whoever it was, in the lame category, and would have filed it in the "never play" pile. I would have literally never removed the shrinkwrap from the LP cover.

Your heart is in the right place, but as JSngry said, if you suddenly showed a great liking for all of the pop music that your daughter is listening to, she would immediately dislike it, and think it must be highly suspect.

What I do is ask for a Christmas list, buy the CDs on it without comment, no matter how ridiculous I think they are, and keep my mouth shut. I hope that the truly great music wafting through the house sinks in on some sublimal level. That's all you can hope for, in my opinion.

[Shawn]

I guess my household was a little different than most. My mother was a "rocker", when I was very young (early 70's) the music playing around the house was Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, CSN&Y, Pink Floyd, etc. I LOVED it and thought she was quite hip for liking it as well.

Our tastes didn't diverge until I started listening to KISS in 1976 and she hated them...probably because she could tell that it was completely pre-packaged product masquerading as a serious rock band.

Fast forward to around 1980 and I was listening to alot of Queen, AC/DC, Rush, etc. She liked all that stuff as well and was instantly hip again in my eyes.

Our paths started to diverge again around 1983 when I got heavily into NWOBHM bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Venom...and also the infant thrash scene in the states: Slayer, Exodus, Anthrax, Metallica. She mostly hated these bands...but Metallica ended up finally growing on her to the point where she'd at least tolerate it...and she actually really liked Judas Priest.

Then we got on the same page again when I became a rabid King's X fan, she absolutely loved them and went with me to a couple of their concerts. We also went and saw Faith No More together around the same time. The last band I remember us both liking was Soundgarden.

Then I started listening to jazz...we haven't been on the same page...hell, even the same BOOK since then! She thinks I'm horribly "un-hip" for listening to jazz.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Shawn

[Morganized]

I guess I'm less trying to get her into something I like than getting a kernel of direction for the stuff that she thinks she likes. I can pretty much like anything (but if they play bagpipes at my funeral I'm getting out of the ground and going Blutarski).

After seeing that old Stetsasonic vid I thought what better way to get her going against the grain (which she certainly has no probs about) and introducing her to the real deal - music that appeals to that hippity hop thing that she listens to more than a wee bit and showing her the most creative side of that style ... hence calling the board.

I still don't think she will like it. If my parents had told me when I was 13, "in addition to the albums you have, you should give a listen to this great rock band we've read about"--I would have immediately put that rock band, whoever it was, in the lame category, and would have filed it in the "never play" pile. I would have literally never removed the shrinkwrap from the LP cover.

Your heart is in the right place, but as JSngry said, if you suddenly showed a great liking for all of the pop music that your daughter is listening to, she would immediately dislike it, and think it must be highly suspect.

What I do is ask for a Christmas list, buy the CDs on it without comment, no matter how ridiculous I think they are, and keep my mouth shut. I hope that the truly great music wafting through the house sinks in on some sublimal level. That's all you can hope for, in my opinion.

I have about 10 years on you and I can tell you that it is a losing cause. No jazz for my daughter UNTIL she gets to college and takes interest in a young man that digs Brubeck.....(not my favorite but the young man has potential!) I get a call from her and she laughingly tells me how funny it would be if she finally starts liking jazz...Yea,,I'm breaking up ( sic)

My advice if you deem this a critical mission......Find some hot looking 13 year old. Convince him($$$$) he likes jazz as well. Let him show your daughter just a little interest (not too much, this is a family board) and watch how interested she gets in jazz!!All of a sudden she will be using you as a reference.....Warning. when it is over she will convert back to some other type of music so be prepared!

Good luck!!!

Hope you know the advice is tongue in cheek.....the part about my daughter is true........there is hope......give it time.

[Hot Ptah]

This entire topic brings up a sad point about the father-daughter relationship--it seems that it is inevitable that it shifts from a friendly one, in which the daughter talks warmly and openly to the father and listens to what he has to say, to one in which the father's thoughts and opinions are no longer valued by the daughter, or at least if they are valued it is a well-kept secret. At least that is what happened to me.

Music is only one aspect to it. But I think that if you push too hard in any area, that area will become the lightning rod for the entire relationship change. It would be too painful to me to make music the battlefield.

[Noj]

Use the Jedi mind trick and pretend you enjoy the music your daughter is listening to.

I've tried hipping my nieces to tunes that I dig, and JSngry's right--they don't want to like what I like. I'm old and not cool.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

YOU'RE old and not cool!!!!! Struth!

MG

[BruceH]

I agree with JSngry. It has been impossible for me to "guide" my eleven year old daughter into jazz or other worthy music.

She has heard a great deal of jazz and classical around the house since she was born, and thus hates all of it, or at best takes it for granted as background wallpaper. "Her music" is the pop music of today. Within that context, she has some discrimination. She does not care for Hannah Montana while many of the girls in her class were bragging for weeks about how they were going to see Montana in concert.

I have taken her to live jazz concerts, of accessible music, and she has not enjoyed it.

She just doesn't care for jazz or any other music which my wife or I might like. As JSngry said, by trying to force the issue, it only creates a deeper backlash.

This has all to do with independence, setting her own identity, and getting involved with the young music of today. I did the same thing when I was young. I refused to listen to my parents' show tunes albums and classical albums. They had one Art Tatum album in the bunch too. No, I was into my Beatles and Crosby Stills and Nash and Led Zeppelin, which my parents found incomprehensible.

I would completely give up, live and let live, and don't worry about what your children listen to or try to change the situation. It will only create negative feelings and will not change their listening. Maybe someday, in their late 20s to early 40s, they will have a jazz epiphany and think, hey, my dad has a great music collection. I think it is unlikely to happen for decades, though.

He's right.

You are NOT going to influence a 13-year old musically, and the harder you try the more they will rebel. Just give it up and hope the kid gets into better music on their own someday.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just give it up and hope the kid gets into better music on their own someday.

But it doesn't matter if they don't. What are you going to do if they love what you think is trash? Love them less?

MG

[Hot Ptah]

Just give it up and hope the kid gets into better music on their own someday.

But it doesn't matter if they don't. What are you going to do if they love what you think is trash? Love them less?

MG

That's right. You can hope that they get into better music, but it's just a hope. Actually, there's a really good chance that they never will.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Of course, you can expose your kids to stuff - my daughter REALLY was exposed to a lot of different stuff. But she went her own way and I'm glad.

When she was about 20, she turned up one day and said, "I've bought a jazz record, dad; Harry Connick." She knew it was a joke. She has the same sense of humour as me - and THAT counts for a lot more, believe me.

MG

[Hot Ptah]

Of course, you can expose your kids to stuff - my daughter REALLY was exposed to a lot of different stuff. But she went her own way and I'm glad.

When she was about 20, she turned up one day and said, "I've bought a jazz record, dad; Harry Connick." She knew it was a joke. She has the same sense of humour as me - and THAT counts for a lot more, believe me.

MG

I am on the other end of this situation. My younger brother is deeply into punk music and looks down on me as a person because I do not like much of it. He seriously thinks that I am a lesser person than he is, because of his greater appreciation of punk, and often lets me know it. He is always trying to "turn me on" to punk, to get me to like punk more, to become more familiar with more punk music.

I don't like it one bit.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Of course, you can expose your kids to stuff - my daughter REALLY was exposed to a lot of different stuff. But she went her own way and I'm glad.

When she was about 20, she turned up one day and said, "I've bought a jazz record, dad; Harry Connick." She knew it was a joke. She has the same sense of humour as me - and THAT counts for a lot more, believe me.

MG

I am on the other end of this situation. My younger brother is deeply into punk music and looks down on me as a person because I do not like much of it. He seriously thinks that I am a lesser person than he is, because of his greater appreciation of punk, and often lets me know it. He is always trying to "turn me on" to punk, to get me to like punk more, to become more familiar with more punk music.

I don't like it one bit.

That's hard - but you have a strong sense of humour and I feel that always helps in difficult situations.

MG

[Hot Ptah]

Of course, you can expose your kids to stuff - my daughter REALLY was exposed to a lot of different stuff. But she went her own way and I'm glad.

When she was about 20, she turned up one day and said, "I've bought a jazz record, dad; Harry Connick." She knew it was a joke. She has the same sense of humour as me - and THAT counts for a lot more, believe me.

MG

I am on the other end of this situation. My younger brother is deeply into punk music and looks down on me as a person because I do not like much of it. He seriously thinks that I am a lesser person than he is, because of his greater appreciation of punk, and often lets me know it. He is always trying to "turn me on" to punk, to get me to like punk more, to become more familiar with more punk music.

I don't like it one bit.

That's hard - but you have a strong sense of humour and I feel that always helps in difficult situations.

MG

Actually, it's more of an annoyance, like a mosquito buzzing around my head, than an actual difficulty.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Of course, you can expose your kids to stuff - my daughter REALLY was exposed to a lot of different stuff. But she went her own way and I'm glad.

When she was about 20, she turned up one day and said, "I've bought a jazz record, dad; Harry Connick." She knew it was a joke. She has the same sense of humour as me - and THAT counts for a lot more, believe me.

MG

I am on the other end of this situation. My younger brother is deeply into punk music and looks down on me as a person because I do not like much of it. He seriously thinks that I am a lesser person than he is, because of his greater appreciation of punk, and often lets me know it. He is always trying to "turn me on" to punk, to get me to like punk more, to become more familiar with more punk music.

I don't like it one bit.

That's hard - but you have a strong sense of humour and I feel that always helps in difficult situations.

MG

Actually, it's more of an annoyance, like a mosquito buzzing around my head, than an actual difficulty.

Ah, you mean he doesn't owe you money? (Or you him)

MG

[Tom Storer]

I have a similar experience to Jim's--my son has his own firm tastes which don't fit any particular profile but his own, and he listens to the details. So I figure I must have raised him right, since music is a source of pleasure and discovery for him, despite the fact that he "hates jazz" and listens to all kinds of stuff I find unlistenable.

What you basically have to accept is that your children's taste in music is none of your damn business.

[John L]

Sounds familiar. I brought my kids up on mostly jazz, blues, gospel, and classic R&B. They are now 24 and 18, and have no use for any of that music at all. Most disturbing of all, they are convinced that this music has lost its relevance in today's world, and only has value for old farts like me. That idea scares the shit out of me.

[JSngry]

What should really scare you is that in about 25 or 30 years, the people they're digging now wil start recording albums of standards.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well, they'll be standards like "Night of the living baseheads", won't they? (Tell me they will.)

MG

[Noj]

No doubt fine recommendations by your tastes, edc--but if Man With The Golden Arm's daughter is like my niece, it won't wave a stick at what she and her friends are listening to on pop radio. They want their own tunes to identify with. If it isn't being drilled into her head four times a day by the radio station she likes, she isn't going to like it.