Sound from Blue Ray DVD Players

[medjuck]

I just got a Blue Ray Player (Panasonic) and ordered a couple of Blue Ray Discs from Netflix. Connected the player to my

1080p tv set with an HDMI cable and to my 5.1 receiver with an optical cable.

The picture is wonderful and even my non-Blue Ray DVDs look better than ever.

However when the audio output from the player is set to PCM my receiver doesn't decode Dolby Digital but only stereo.

When the audio output from the player is set to Bitstream my receiver does decode Dolby Digital but the sound keeps dropping out-- always at the same places on the DVDs which I have cleaned. I did a test with a brand new completely clean stardard DVD and it seemed to play fine in Dolby Digital. To confuse matters even more the trailers on the head of one of the Blue Ray DVDs played just find. (I was shocked that they included trailers.)

When I set the receiver manually to "normal surround" I do get pro-logic surround sound ok, and the crappy sound on my tv set has no drop-outs in any format or setting (though I then get no sub-woofer or surround sound.)

I phoned the Panasonic service center and much to my surprise got someone on the phone even though it's Saturday. He said the problem was that the HDMI cable was the only way to get Dolby Digital but even if my receiver had an HDMI input (which it doesn't) if I used the one HDMI output from the player I couldn't get a 1080p picture on my tv. I asked if there were any receivers with both an HDMI input and output and he answered not that he knew of and he was sure that there were none that offered 1080p output.

I want a 1080p picture and 5.1 sound! Is this really impossible to get?

BTW My cds do sound great on the Blue Ray player. Can't claim I've actually A&B'd any.

[vibes]

Some thoughts:

- There are tons of receivers out there with both HDMI inputs and outputs; what you were told by the Panasonic service center rep is completely false.

- There are also tons of receivers out there that will pass 1080p video and/or upconvert to 1080p from lower resolution sources.

- If the Dolby Digital you were trying to pass via the optical cable was Dolby Digital+, you would definitely have dropouts if your receiver is not capable of decoding it (only the newest receivers are).

- Standard Dolby Digital (stereo and 5.1) should be able to be passed (bitstream) from your Panny to your receiver without issue. If you are having problems with that, it might be time to upgrade your receiver.

- 5.1 PCM cannot be passed from the player to the receiver via optical; you'll need HDMI for that.

- If you want the ability to hear the highest quality sound from your player (I assume you have the BD30), you'll need to get a new receiver that has the ability to decode all the newest sound formats, including DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. The BD30 will bitstream all sound formats via HDMI. It can decode most of the formats and output them via its 5.1 analog outs (DTS-HD Master Audio is excluded, if memory serves).

- The cheapest receivers that have these decoding capabilities are, to my knowledge, the newest Onkyo receivers.

I have one of the newest Denon receivers that has the ability to decode all these sound formats. I'm very impressed with the sound quality that I get from the combination of my Toshiba HD DVD player and this receiver. The PS3 + the receiver is also great (no bitstreaming of Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA from the PS3, though).

This is pretty confusing, I know. Good luck!

[medjuck]

Wow! Thanks so much. This is very helpful. I think my receiver is only 2 or 3 years old (I got it so I could try out SACD. It has a label saying it's got DTS, Dolby Digital Ex and Prologic II. I don't even know what the latter 2 are, but I guess they're now obsolete.)

I'll probably go looking for a new receiver today.

Some more questions:

Do you prefer DTS to Dolby when you have the choice?

And is bitstream preferable to PCM?

Do Blue Ray discs only have Dolby Digital Plus? That seems to be the case with Blade Runner Final Cut which doesn't to offer any sound choices except language. The other disc i got from Netflix was Deju Vu. It offered a choice of of Dolby Digital 5.1 and 5.1 uncompressed.. What the Hell is Dolby Digital 5.1 uncompressed? When I chose "uncompressed it could not be decoded in 5.1.

Finally, I don't have room for more speakers. I presume the player can translate everything to 5.1 from 7.1 or whatever.

BTW The manual claims the the BD30A player I bought does handle DTS-HD. Is DTS-HD Master Audio something different?

OOOPs

After I wrote what's above but before sending it I tried one more thing: the player offers something called BD-Video Secondary audio which cam be on or off. I'd left it off because it suggested the audio wasn't as good with it on. Now I realize that it's converting the BD-Video audio to Dolby 5.1 it seems to work on Deja-vu but not on Blade Runner. Could Blade Runner be in some sound format that can't be converted?

[vibes]

Wow! Thanks so much. This is very helpful. I think my receiver is only 2 or 3 years old (I got it so I could try out SACD. It has a label saying it's got DTS, Dolby Digital Ex and Prologic II. I don't even know what the latter 2 are, but I guess they're now obsolete.)

I'll probably go looking for a new receiver today.

Some more questions:

Do you prefer DTS to Dolby when you have the choice?

If we're talking about Dolby Digital and DTS (the outdated, lossy formats), then yes, I do prefer DTS and always select it when there's the option. With the new lossless audio codecs, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, these formats are supposed to be of identical quality and should reproduce sound that is identical to the original masters. I don't recall ever seeing an HD DVD or BD that had both as options.

And is bitstream preferable to PCM?

In the case of your player, I would say "yes", because your player is not capable of decoding every sound format, but it is capable of bitstreaming them all. When the player first came out, it could not decode any of the new lossless formats. This may have been improved by a firmware update, but I'm not sure.

Do Blue Ray discs only have Dolby Digital Plus? That seems to be the case with Blade Runner Final Cut which doesn't to offer any sound choices except language. The other disc i got from Netflix was Deju Vu. It offered a choice of of Dolby Digital 5.1 and 5.1 uncompressed.. What the Hell is Dolby Digital 5.1 uncompressed? When I chose "uncompressed it could not be decoded in 5.1.

Blu-ray discs (BD) have all sorts of different sound formats on them, and this is where BD can get confusing. BD may have the following sound formats on them:

PCM

Dolby Digital

Dolby Digital+

Dolby TrueHD

DTS

DTS-HD HR

DTS-HD MA

5.1 uncompressed is 5.1 PCM which, as I mentioned, cannot by passed by an optical cable. The only way to get it from your player into your receiver is via HDMI or via analog outs.

Finally, I don't have room for more speakers. I presume the player can translate everything to 5.1 from 7.1 or whatever.

BTW The manual claims the the BD30A player I bought does handle DTS-HD. Is DTS-HD Master Audio something different?

DTS-HD Master Audio is different than DTS-HD (which I've called DTS-HD HR (high resolution) above). The easiest way to think of DTS now is to think of an apple. On the outside of the apple, you have the skin. Regular DTS is like this. At the next level, you have most of the fruit that you would eat. This is like DTS-HD HR. At the center of the apple, you have the seeds and the rest of the fruit. This is like DTS-HD MA. If you want full resolution from a DTS stream, your player needs to be able to decode DTS-HD MA or pass it to a receiver. If your player cannot do this, you will still get the best layer of DTS sound that your player can decode or pass (in your case, DTS-HD HR), but that will be lossy sound.

If you buy a disc that has DTS-HD MA as a sound option, you are fine. Again, your player will extract the best layer of sound of which it is capable.

OOOPs

After I wrote what's above but before sending it I tried one more thing: the player offers something called BD-Video Secondary audio which cam be on or off. I'd left it off because it suggested the audio wasn't as good with it on. Now I realize that it's converting the BD-Video audio to Dolby 5.1 it seems to work on Deja-vu but not on Blade Runner. Could Blade Runner be in some sound format that can't be converted?

I don't have and have not watched "Blade Runner", so I'm not sure. The BD-Video Secondary sounds like a special feature, and I almost never watch or use those. If you're just trying to enjoy your movies, I would leave that feature off.

[medjuck]

5.1 uncompressed is 5.1 PCM which, as I mentioned, cannot by passed by an optical cable. The only way to get it from your player into your receiver is via HDMI or via analog outs.

.

OK then one (I hope) final question) if I get a new receiver which is better: PCM or bitstream?

And thanks again.

[vibes]

If the new receiver is capable of decoding TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, then definitely go with bitstreaming.

[mr jazz]

I preordered the new Yamaha YAM RXV663BL from J and R for $400 delivered. I've been shopping for a inexpensive HT receiver that had enough new technology to keep it current with current audio and video updates. I hope this will fit the bill.

Edited March 5, 2008 by mr jazz