BFT 64 Disc 2 Discussion Thread

[Dan Gould]

This would be the disc that starts with the mini-set of Gene Harris and faux Gene Harris tracks. I call it "Is it Gene or is it Memorex?" but I do ask that you explain your answers.

[tkeith]

1-I like the piano, but the recording of the drums is excruciating (egad, I hate engineers!). No idea.

2-Aw, man... I know the song, but can't think of the title. Shit! This happens all the friggin' time! Don't know the recording or the musicians, but this tune... man! It's like standards 101 and I can't think of it to save my life! AAAAAAArrrrggghh! I think it's one of the Hefti things written for Basie, but... ugh! Ah!!! Got it! It's Cute! Oh, MAN that was painful. No idea of the band.

3-Time After Time. Very busy piano. No, not Time After Time. More excruciating drums (recording). No idea. Somebody out of the Peterson/Newborn school, but not either of them. This drummer is not doing it for me. Bassist plays a lot of quotes... maybe Ray Brown? Doesn't sound like him, but could be. Drummer has the subtly of Don Rickles.

4-Sounds like It Never Entered My Mind, then into a basic blues again. A lot like Gene Harris. He's too busy for my ear (as GH often is). This would be okay live, but it grates on playback, without the atmosphere of the club.

5-I'll get crucified for this, but the touch reminds me a lot of Harry Connick's piano playing. I like this, but again, I wouldn't listen to it often. It seems too busy and trite for the genre to leave me with much of an impression.

6-Wave. Big sound like Buddy Tate, but the playing is more modern than that. No clue on the bass.

7-The Sidewinder. My first impression is Joey DeFrancesco, but the trumpet sounds more like a Jazz guy than that. Maybe Ryan Kisor, I know he recorded an album by that name, but I've never found it (discounting the copy on Amazon for $50). I'll guess RK.

No track 8?

9-This sounds like Cedar Walton to me right away (but a quick review tells me much of this BFT has). Autumn Leaves. Can't place the tenor. He's got that reedy sound almost like Billy Mitchell, but doesn't navigate as well as BM. A little like Teddy Edwards near the end, too, and that would jibe with the time of the recording. Not sure.

10-No clue. Interesting instrumentation.

11-On The Trail. Dexter Gordon is the first, Al Cohn is the second. It's got to be from this. It was originally released under both their names (Xanadu, if I recall) as Silver Blue.

12-Has the feel of one of those early 70s Elvin dates, but isn't Elvin. Not sure of the tenor, but he's got a Dexter-esque tone, and knows his Coltrane. Could be Franklin Kiermeyer, but doesn't sound busy like him. Nice tune.

A lot of ground covered in this BFT, much of it to my liking. Thanks.

[Dan Gould]

Thanks for your comments, 6 and the erstwhile 9 may surprise you. I've never thought the last track would be compared to early 70s Elvin as it strikes me as more of a late-50s vibe. Of course you are right about Dex/Cohn, its such a great track I had to include it even though almost everyone should at least get Dexter. I hate to point it out but the Andorrans are selling both Silver Blue and the other Xanadu Dexter cut, True Blue. Fine recordings that deserve to be heard, but how the fuck do they justify issuing them when they are barely over 30 years old?

[Jim R]

Disc 2:

1. Interesting blues progression with a twist in the final few bars. I always appreciated hearing these kinds of structural variations when listening to a long stretch of blues material. Keeps things interesting. Never heard this before.

2. I think the title of this is "cute", right? Groovy and swinging band, with some tasty piano work. No guess as to who this is.

3. Yeah, I can dig it. I don't listen to a lot of gospel or gospel-flavored stuff, so this remains a nice change of pace. 10 minutes may be a bit much, though. Could this be Gene Harris?

4. I'll guess Gene Harris playing "You Don't Know Me".

5. "I'm Walkin'". Not Fats Domino... so... Gene Harris? (hey, I learned this trick from Big Al a long time ago.)

6. "Medication"... er, "Meditation"... a version I'm not sure I've heard. Gene Harris? (wait... no). All in all, pretty nicely done by both players. I think I'll need to spin some of these again, just to verify that I suck at blindfold tests.

7. Okay, this one is officially pissing me off. I thought I owned this, and knew basically who was playing (Peter Bernstein on guitar, probably Sam Yahel on organ...). Not only can I not find it in my colleciton, now I can't figure out what this is. It sounds like a Criss Cross date, but I can't find anything that matches. This IS "The Sidewinder", is it not? Sheesh. Okay, maybe it's not on Criss Cross. Arrgghh! Okay, I think I finally found it. Wow, I never heard about this, and it came out in 2003? http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=VACM-1221. Nice track, Dan, even though you cost me a lot of time Googling the damn thing!

8. For such a well-traveled standard like this, I would have hoped for something more interesting. I thought the tenor player kind of messed up the melody. I enjoyed the pianist more than the tenor, but overall not a lot of stars.

9. Hmm... another long unison line (trumpet and bass this time)... a subtheme for this BFT? Unfortunately, the head doesn't grab me at all. Oh well, the changes provide a nice vehicle, and the musicianship is very good, so no major complaints. Just not something I would seek out.

10. Ah, an old tenor favorite... plus Al Cohn. Well, Dan knows that I know that he knows that I know...

11. Never heard this, but it immediately brings to mind the vibe from the Kind Of Blue session. Nice writing. I enjoyed the ensemble parts more than the solos.

Thanks DG, this was fun.

[Jim R]

Forgot to add... #3: "Battle Hymn Of The Republic".

[Jim R]

This would be the disc that starts with the mini-set of Gene Harris and faux Gene Harris tracks. I call it "Is it Gene or is it Memorex?" but I do ask that you explain your answers.

You sadistic bastard.

[Dan Gould]

This would be the disc that starts with the mini-set of Gene Harris and faux Gene Harris tracks. I call it "Is it Gene or is it Memorex?" but I do ask that you explain your answers.

You sadistic bastard.

I'm sorry, I meant to say that you get extra credit if you explain your answers.

[thedwork]

Harris or not Harris

#1 - Not Harris. as a general explanation as to why i'd simply say not good enough to be Harris. maybe on a bad night i guess... i don't have a guess and don't recognize the tune. occasionally a nice enough shuffle feel but sometimes feels a little too unintentionally sloppy for me. not usually something i'd comment on but i'm not grooving on the electric bass on this cut...

#2 - Not Harris. but i'm digging it and it seems more harris-like than track #1 just because of the higher genarl level of playing. the tune is familiar but i can't name it. band: Rob McConnel's Boss Brass?

#3 - Not Harris. digging this one as well and is pretty Harris-like. but to my ear isn't as 'full sounding' as Harris usually is. nor as rhythmically seamless. maybe his 'rolling' block chord voicings or something not being big enough. except for that last chorus before the melody comes back in - that one sounds very Harris-like to me. and the comping behind the bass solo impresses me as not as subtle as Harris would be.

#4 - Yes Harris. sounds like "You Don't Know Me" which i associate w/ ray charles. explanation: the 'size' of the block chord thing and the greater use of dynamics all around. also the phrase length of his soloing ideas being longer; and just general form and technique seeming to be better here. killer.

#5 - Not Harris. very nice playin' though. sounds like an old blues tune i can't quite place but is on the tip of my brain.

#6 - Getz. so chill. i feel like a schlub for not knowing the name of this tune. it's a Jobim standard, right? beautiful.

#7 - "Sidewinder." that's absolutely gotta be the ever tasteful peter bernstein. unbeatable. i'd also say i'm pretty sure this is bill stewart. don't know who's date it is. and i know lonnie and bernstein are something of a team but this doesn't sound like Dr. Smith to me. larry goldings? i thought i heard larry on something on disc #1 so maybe here too . ryan kisor on trumpet? nice playing and tone. a little too many of those same sounding 'turns' for one solo but still very nice.

#8 - "Autumn Leaves." might be my ears failing me, but i'm hearing this as a baritone being played consistently in a relatively high register for itself. my fellow tri-city boy Brignola? no guesses on the sidemen. i really liked the piano solo. pushing it a little bit. nice playing.

#9 - don't know the tune and not liking the tone of the piano. maybe that's 'cuz the recording though? payton on trumpet? nice enough playing all around though. wouldn't wanna buy the cd based on this though.

#10 - wow. awesome. beautiful tone/time/phrasing by both. don't know it/them.

#11 - definitely don't recognize the tune. kinda cool arranging; the little there is. i'm a sucker for piano/bass hook ups. but kinda milquetoast melody i think. not much happening. vehicle for solos! the whole thing sounds like everyone wishes they were somewhere else. like they're playing and most o' the while they're really wondering to themselves what's for dinner later. some kind of all-star session maybe? the piano player sounds more engaged than the others.

ok - i'm lettin' it fly. thanks again dan. these are cool.

[Dan Gould]

Interesting comments. I think I was only kidding about "explaining" your Gene/not Gene answers but thanks for playing along! You may be surprised by some of the answers. Glad your inaugural BFT was fun. Its obvious you've got a better than average ear for recognizing people - even if you weren't exactly perfect on this one.

[thedwork]

Interesting comments. I think I was only kidding about "explaining" your Gene/not Gene answers but thanks for playing along! You may be surprised by some of the answers. Glad your inaugural BFT was fun. Its obvious you've got a better than average ear for recognizing people - even if you weren't exactly perfect on this one.

"weren't exactly perfect?" LOL!!! i look forward to my embarrassment on this and the other disc...

and i figured you were at least 1/2 kidding w/ the explaining bit for Harris, but for me that's gonna be a big part of the fun w/ these BFTs: writing what i think of the music and sharing that w/ the board. otherwise it's just a bunch of us alone w/ our thoughts, no? lots of us here think of ourselves as writers dontchyaknow?

good times...

[JSngry]

DAMMIT, that's two BFT threads in a row where I've accidentally closed the post before finishing. DAMMIT

Ok, shorter answers this time, shit.

TRACK ONE - Might like it, but can't tell due to the thunderous recording quality, which makes me dislike the drummer VERY much.

TRACK TWO - "Cute". Sounds UK or Euro in the recording and arranging, sounds like the Kelley/PC/Cobb trio in soloing. I like it pretty well but the contrast between heads and soloing is a little discombobulating. Maybe it's that off-center pressing!

TRACK THREE - John Brown's Battle Hymn. A nice piece of work, actually, although they tag the ending too long for my taste. I

TRACK FOUR - "You Don't Know Me". Exquisitely paced. s this a GH Bootleg?

TRACK FIVE - I'm Walkin'. Not diffing this one. Too symmetrical. But professional!

TRACK SIX - "Meditation". Person/Carter. Works for me just. I really enjoy playing tenor/bass duets, and I really enjoyed hearing this one, although why Ron keeps asking "what Am I here For" strikes me a bit...rude, perhaps.

TRACK SEVEN - "Sidewinder". It's a good tune, no matter what anybody wants to tell you otherwise. Not really digging anybody here save for the drummer, who is DANDY! Guitar is ok too, but the other two, just too much "tribute" for my taste. Is this the Ryan Kizor side with the sexyass leg cover?

TRACK EIGHT/NINE - No fair, I know this one. But - God bless the eternally hip, the perpetually beautiful, the extinguishably soulful Hank Mobley. He had "it" when he didn't have anything else.

TRACK NINE/TEN - No fair again, pretty much whatever you play after that last one is gonna sound frivolous, including this. Sorry.

TRACK TEN/ELEVEN - Wow, cool! I'd long hear about this album, but never actually heard it. I've got it's companion True, but have never found this one, Silver. So WAY cool (and Blue!)! These are masters at work, simple as that.

TRACK ELEVEN/TWELVE - Coppin' Joe prettyhavey here in sound and such, so my reflex is to Javon Jackson. It ain't Joe, that's for sure. Not bad, but one degree too many from Kevin Bacon for my taste.

But overall, a fine compilation, Dan. MOST enjoyable. Thanks!

[Jim R]

DAMMIT, that's two BFT threads in a row where I've accidentally closed the post before finishing. DAMMIT

There was one BFT, probably in 2003, where our power went out while I was in my second hour of composing a post. Ever since then, I've been in the habit of assembling the thing in a word processing doc, often before the official threads are started, and then just paste the lists in when the thread is started.

TRACK SEVEN... Is this the Ryan Kizor side with the sexyass leg cover?

Am I the only one who never saw this CD or knew it existed? Was this featured in the sexy album covers thread? Geez, I pretty much bought every Criss Cross disc with these guys on it, and even I was in the dark about this sucker.

TRACK EIGHT/NINE - No fair, I know this one. But - God bless the eternally hip, the perpetually beautiful, the extinguishably soulful Hank Mobley. He had "it" when he didn't have anything else.

Wow...

[tkeith]

DAMMIT, that's two BFT threads in a row where I've accidentally closed the post before finishing. DAMMIT

Ok, shorter answers this time, shit.

Jim, I had this same problem, so I just started writing them in a text editor, then pasting them into this window.

[JSngry]

God bless the eternally hip, the perpetually beautiful, the extinguishably soulful Hank Mobley.

That should have been unextinguishably soulful...

And yeah, I need to compose elsewhere and then paste/post. That's some frustrating stuff.

And Jim, I don't think the Kisor bate's on Criss-Cross is it? It's a Japanese-only issue iirc.

[Dan Gould]

I hate to point it out but the Andorrans are selling both Silver Blue and the other Xanadu Dexter cut, True Blue. Fine recordings that deserve to be heard, but how the fuck do they justify issuing them when they are barely over 30 years old?

TRACK TEN/ELEVEN - Wow, cool! I'd long hear about this album, but never actually heard it. I've got it's companion True, but have never found this one, Silver. So WAY cool (and Blue!)! These are masters at work, simple as that.

Given that the Andorrans have put out both of these fine LPs as if they had the right to do so thirty years after the recording, I think we should follow Jim's advice - freely distribute that which is bootleged. (I know, we're not supposed to discuss this and I'm not saying we will, but its wrong for a mid-seventies Xanadu recording to be reissued as they've done. And yet, its such great music, worthy of much wider distribution.)

And that's another one I was certain you actually had, Jim! At least you knew it, unlike that B.B. King track.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Dan Gould

[Jim R]

God bless the eternally hip, the perpetually beautiful, the extinguishably soulful Hank Mobley.

That should have been unextinguishably soulful...

And yeah, I need to compose elsewhere and then paste/post. That's some frustrating stuff.

And Jim, I don't think the Kisor bate's on Criss-Cross is it? It's a Japanese-only issue iirc.

That's right, JS. What I meant was that I was somewhat of an obsessed fanatic about buying most of their recordings (which happened to be on Criss Cross), and yet I was completely unaware of this CD until now.

[JSngry]

Hey, I'm just wondering what I was trying to type that came out "bate's"...

[Jim R]

Hey, I'm just wondering what I was trying to type that came out "bate's"...

Yeah, I just kind of looked past that. Were you watching "Psycho" when you posted?

[JSngry]

Dude, I'm siting here right now looking at the keyboard trying to find any, any, plausible scenario, but....no.

Best I can reckon is that it was supposed to be "side's", but how that came out "bate's"....

But back to the music - in regards to the Xanadu thing, am I correct that only one of the two "Blue" albums actually made CD legitimately?

[Jim R]

Dude, I'm siting here right now looking at the keyboard trying to find any, any, plausible scenario, but....no.

Best I can reckon is that it was supposed to be "side's", but how that came out "bate's"....

But back to the music - in regards to the Xanadu thing, am I correct that only one of the two "Blue" albums actually made CD legitimately?

Sort of. All the tracks from "True Blue", plus most of the tracks from "Silver Blue" (the 17-minute title track was omitted) were on a Xanadu CD (issued by E.P.M., France) in 1990.

[JSngry]

Well ain't that a bee-atch - I've got True Blue on a 1994 American Xanadu CD - straight-up LP reissue. No Silver Blue equivalent, afaik. I guess France came a'callin' and then they stared ballin' and next thing you know, I'm gettin' all crestfallen.

Edited April 6, 2009 by JSngry

[Dan Gould]

Dude, I'm siting here right now looking at the keyboard trying to find any, any, plausible scenario, but....no.

Best I can reckon is that it was supposed to be "side's", but how that came out "bate's"....

"I don't think the Kisor DATE'S on Criss Cross ..."

And "b" is only two letters away from "d"

[Jim R]

Dude, I'm siting here right now looking at the keyboard trying to find any, any, plausible scenario, but....no.

Best I can reckon is that it was supposed to be "side's", but how that came out "bate's"....

"I don't think the Kisor DATE'S on Criss Cross ..."

And "b" is only two letters away from "d"

Oh Christ. I swear I thought the same thing when I first read it, but my senility kicked in when the subject came back up (or maybe I just wanted to go for a joke too much).

[tkeith]

Hey, I'm just wondering what I was trying to type that came out "bate's"...

I'm dyslexic... I just read it as "dates".

[JSngry]

ok, "date's" it is!