UK "Vogue" label

[Royal Oak]

The other day I found a 10" Gerry Mulligan Quartet LP in a charity shop. The album is a Pacific Jazz session (says so in the liner notes and on the label) but is on the "Vogue" label.

I'm a vinyl ignoramus, so could someone tell me if this was common practice years ago?

[sidewinder]

The other day I found a 10" Gerry Mulligan Quartet LP in a charity shop. The album is a Pacific Jazz session (says so in the liner notes and on the label) but is on the "Vogue" label.

I'm a vinyl ignoramus, so could someone tell me if this was common practice years ago?

Many of the Pacific Jazz sessions were issued in the UK on Vogue. Initially on 10" put later on the 12" format (with a lime coloured label). They are usualy pretty nice pressings (assuming they haven't been trashed by use of a heavy cartridge/record changer).

[BillF]

The other day I found a 10" Gerry Mulligan Quartet LP in a charity shop. The album is a Pacific Jazz session (says so in the liner notes and on the label) but is on the "Vogue" label.

I'm a vinyl ignoramus, so could someone tell me if this was common practice years ago?

Many of the Pacific Jazz sessions were issued in the UK on Vogue. Initially on 10" put later on the 12" format (with a lime coloured label). They are usualy pretty nice pressings (assuming they haven't been trashed by use of a heavy cartridge/record changer).

Still got a few of those Vogue and Esquire 10" LPs, not to mention EPs!

[Royal Oak]

Thanks Bill/Bob

It feels solid and heavy. I don't currently have a turntable, so haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. I don't normally buy vinyl in charity shops, mainly because you never find anything worth buying - Jim Reeves and "Top Of The Pops" albums seem to be the order of the day. That day, I also found a mono/deep groove Riverside - "Really Big" by Jimmy Heath.

[JohnS]

As well as PJ Vogue also issued Contemporary, Fantasy, Roost, Storyville and others. I also had some Parker Dial on the label.

Edited April 26, 2009 by JohnS

[BillF]

Thanks Bill/Bob

It feels solid and heavy. I don't currently have a turntable, so haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. I don't normally buy vinyl in charity shops, mainly because you never find anything worth buying - Jim Reeves and "Top Of The Pops" albums seem to be the order of the day. That day, I also found a mono/deep groove Riverside - "Really Big" by Jimmy Heath.

It's always a gamble buying vinyl in charity shops, etc. I have an Affinity album of Stan Levey and Red Mitchell sessions called West Coast Rhythm, which almost breaks my heart. It's just my sort of stuff and I've never come across the tracks anywhere else, but it's absolutely unplayable. (It cost me £4.)

[BillF]

As well as PJ Vogue also issued Contemporary, Fantasy, Roost, Storyville and others. I also had some Parker Dial on the label.

I had Parker Dial on French Vogue. Their logo of a hunched Jimmy Yancey-style pianist didn't quite go with the cool sounds emerging from the speaker!

[sidewinder]

I don't normally buy vinyl in charity shops, mainly because you never find anything worth buying - Jim Reeves and "Top Of The Pops" albums seem to be the order of the day.

That's my experience too. The Charity Shops are usually well and truly cleaned out by the 'crate digger' brigade (they even collect the 'TOTP' albums ). Some of the bigger Oxfam shops, especially the ones in the wealthy areas, filter out their collectable vinyl (e.g. Rendell/Carr) and have lists of the rare stuff that you can peruse. They use book value though so there are absolutely no bargains to be had. Having said that, it's a good way of donating to charity.

Edited April 26, 2009 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

I have an Affinity album

Not a great fan of this label. Invariably noisy vinyl and the cover art must have cost 3 1/2 p to put together back in the day ! Having said that, they got some rare stuff out (Booker Little, Herbie Nichols Bethlehem etc) back in our last depression so maybe it's time to resurrect this label !

Edited April 26, 2009 by sidewinder

[Big Beat Steve]

It's always a gamble buying vinyl in charity shops, etc. I have an Affinity album of Stan Levey and Red Mitchell sessions called West Coast Rhythm, which almost breaks my heart. It's just my sort of stuff and I've never come across the tracks anywhere else, but it's absolutely unplayable. (It cost me £4.)

Amazing that this sort of 80s reissue should set one back 4 quid in a thrift shop of all places. I bought my copy (slightly worn cover but pristine and therefore quite playable vinyl) for 2 quid at Mole Jazz (OK, so this was in the late 90s but still ...). And though the Behtlehem originals that this music was on tend to be pricy, these Affinity LPs aren't THAT rare at any rate so you should be able to get another one in better shape.

[JohnS]

Thanks Bill/Bob

It's always a gamble buying vinyl in charity shops, etc. I have an Affinity album of Stan Levey and Red Mitchell sessions called West Coast Rhythm, which almost breaks my heart. It's just my sort of stuff and I've never come across the tracks anywhere else, but it's absolutely unplayable. (It cost me £4.)

That's a real shame it's a nice album

Can't say that the Affinity albums I have are particularly poor pressings. The US Cayre Bethlehems were pretty poor in my experience. Some good music though.

[Clunky]

UK Vogue releases I have cover material from

Pacific Jazz

Blue note

Contemporary

Esoteric

Fantasy

Roulette

generally nice quiet pressings, on 7 inch, 10 inch and 12inch. Covers always much flimsier than their US counterparts , but usually with quite a nice glossy laminated finish.

[Big Beat Steve]

generally nice quiet pressings, on 7 inch, 10 inch and 12inch. Covers always much flimsier than their US counterparts , but usually with quite a nice glossy laminated finish.

Yes the UK covers (and French ones, for that matter) were much thinner than U.S. covers. But on the other hand while U.K. covers tend to show ring wear rather fast they show it in the form of the CONTOURS of the LP only whereas ring wear on U.S. covers makes the printer's ink go away faster than you can say "Oo-bla-dee". And the technique of pasting two fairly sturdy cardboard sheets together with only a thin strip of paper along the edges to turn those two cardboards into a real album cover is something that has never looked too clever to me. Those thin paper strips practically BEG for seam splits! IMHO U.K. and other European covers shave fared a bit better in that respect too, including all those U.K. Vogue 12in LP 50s pressings of U.S. Contemporary LPs that I own.

[Royal Oak]

Thanks for the input everyone.

To those who were there at the time (or know these things) - were UK licenced versions cheaper than buying US imports? Were imports even available?

[sidewinder]

My copy of the Parker/Gillespie/Powell 'Massey Hall Concert' is on the UK Vogue 12" imprint. The one with the infamous pack of cards on the cover.

Considering that it is over 50 years old now, it is still in amazing nick.

Another favourite on UK Vogue is the Art Pepper 'Plus 11 Plays Jazz Standards'. Excellent sounding disk. Similarly, another very good sounding one is the Lyle 'Spud' Murphy.

Edited April 27, 2009 by sidewinder

[BillF]

Thanks for the input everyone.

To those who were there at the time (or know these things) - were UK licenced versions cheaper than buying US imports? Were imports even available?

I started buying jazz records in 1957, a time when older formats (78s, 10" LPs and 7"EPs) hadn't yet disappeared, but the new format of the 12" LP was coming in. The Vogue and Esquire items were 10" LPs or EPs. Some US recordings were reissued on British labels in 12" format; e.g. Monk's Brilliant Corners from Riverside on the London American label. No US imports appeared until about 1962, when the jazz press (Jazz Journal, Melody Maker) did a great deal of marketing of the arrival of selected Blue Note and Riverside 12" LPs. Stanley Turrentine's Look Out! was one of the first and they were very expensive. My copy of Monk's Music, bought in the later 60s, is still marked 42/-. Pity MG isn't posting anymore as he once calculated the cost of an imported US album at that time as a significant percentage of the average weekly wage!! I remember a fast-talking guy who'd managed to get a pile of Blue Note Jimmy Smith albums on credit being actively pursued by a record store manager!

[JohnS]

I agree these old pressings still play well even after a lot of playing on old equipment. Esquire seemed to perform very well in this respect. With use the thin jackets tended to gape open and the clarifoil tended to peel off.

Like Bill I started buying in the mid-fifties and as I recall US imports (if you could find them) were about 50% more expensive than the domestic issue. London/Atlantics for example were around 32/-. A Blue Note import 45/-.

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks for the input everyone.

To those who were there at the time (or know these things) - were UK licenced versions cheaper than buying US imports? Were imports even available?

Referring to John S and Bill F's posts, could this be summarized a bit like the situation in other European countries (I can speak for Germany, France and Sweden where I do have quite a bit of period jazz mags which cover this subject too - e.g. in their review sections)? I.e. if there was a licensed issue pressed and released locally by a company for domestic distribution there was no direct import of the U.S. pressing (apart from copies that may have been imported privately - a costly enterprise - or brought over by U.S. servicemen, for example).

[BeBop]

I think Vogue also (re)issued some of the old Gene Norman concerts, as well as Frank Morgan's first outing (1955).

[sidewinder]

I think Vogue also (re)issued some of the old Gene Norman concerts, as well as Frank Morgan's first outing (1955).

I've got the feeling my 'Gene Norman Presents' of Frank Morgan is on UK Vogue. Will have to dig it out (if I can find it).

[Royal Oak]

Thanks for the input everyone.

To those who were there at the time (or know these things) - were UK licenced versions cheaper than buying US imports? Were imports even available?

I started buying jazz records in 1957, a time when older formats (78s, 10" LPs and 7"EPs) hadn't yet disappeared, but the new format of the 12" LP was coming in. The Vogue and Esquire items were 10" LPs or EPs. Some US recordings were reissued on British labels in 12" format; e.g. Monk's Brilliant Corners from Riverside on the London American label. No US imports appeared until about 1962, when the jazz press (Jazz Journal, Melody Maker) did a great deal of marketing of the arrival of selected Blue Note and Riverside 12" LPs. Stanley Turrentine's Look Out! was one of the first and they were very expensive. My copy of Monk's Music, bought in the later 60s, is still marked 42/-. Pity MG isn't posting anymore as he once calculated the cost of an imported US album at that time as a significant percentage of the average weekly wage!! I remember a fast-talking guy who'd managed to get a pile of Blue Note Jimmy Smith albums on credit being actively pursued by a record store manager!

42 shillings- that's over 2 old pounds, no? In the late 1960s? The 21st century truly is a blessed era for jazz buyers!

[JohnS]

Thanks for the input everyone.

To those who were there at the time (or know these things) - were UK licenced versions cheaper than buying US imports? Were imports even available?

I started buying jazz records in 1957, a time when older formats (78s, 10" LPs and 7"EPs) hadn't yet disappeared, but the new format of the 12" LP was coming in. The Vogue and Esquire items were 10" LPs or EPs. Some US recordings were reissued on British labels in 12" format; e.g. Monk's Brilliant Corners from Riverside on the London American label. No US imports appeared until about 1962, when the jazz press (Jazz Journal, Melody Maker) did a great deal of marketing of the arrival of selected Blue Note and Riverside 12" LPs. Stanley Turrentine's Look Out! was one of the first and they were very expensive. My copy of Monk's Music, bought in the later 60s, is still marked 42/-. Pity MG isn't posting anymore as he once calculated the cost of an imported US album at that time as a significant percentage of the average weekly wage!! I remember a fast-talking guy who'd managed to get a pile of Blue Note Jimmy Smith albums on credit being actively pursued by a record store manager!

42 shillings- that's over 2 old pounds, no? In the late 1960s? The 21st century truly is a blessed era for jazz buyers!

That's right music has never been cheaper.

An exception to the 30/- to 35/- standard price range was HMV's Columbia Clef series. For some unaccountable reason they used to cost something like 42/-. That was on a par with top range classical issues.

[BillF]

42 shillings- that's over 2 old pounds, no? In the late 1960s? The 21st century truly is a blessed era for jazz buyers!

42/- was £2.10 at a time when a student paid £3.50 for a week's accommodation with meals and could live comfortably for a ten-week term on a grant of £60. Pretty pricey for a record!

[sidewinder]

42 shillings- that's over 2 old pounds, no? In the late 1960s? The 21st century truly is a blessed era for jazz buyers!

42/- was £2.10 at a time when a student paid £3.50 for a week's accommodation with meals and could live comfortably for a ten-week term on a grant of £60. Pretty pricey for a record!

No kidding !

So the £100 original Blue Notes of today are cheap then.