Big Beat Steve

I agree that the "a few pieces on each release you don't have elsewhere" aspect is a criterion in favor of the Classics series. But not very often one that makes you pay something like "full price". Though there are exceptions. Two years ago a friend invited me to a 78rpm listening session on his vintage gramophone cabinet, and among the items he spun was "In A Shanty In Old Shanty Town/Beat It Bumpin' Boy" by the Royal Rhythm Boys on Decca (from 1939, feat. Slam Stewart). A group I had been totally unaware of. But very nice stuff, so I immediately sprung for a copy of the "Slim Gaillard 1940-1942" Classics CD which included the four tracks by the Royals as an afterthought at the end of its tracks (and is the only place these items have ever been reissued). It was decently priced but the Discogs price plus shipping made it more expensive than what I'd normally pay for Cassics CDs these days. And all this for 4 tracks only, because almost all the Gaillards on this CD are fairly common reissue fare. As for Erroll Garner on Blue Note, yes - the Classics series can be useful there. Us Europeans, OTOH, have been graced with a nice 3-LP box set on Official ("Overture to Dawn", 3016-3, there also was a 2-CD set) which packages the contents of the BN 5007, 5008, 5014, 5015 and 5016 10-inchers. I bought this back in the early 90s (for its "40s Garner" interest) and did not even realize immediately that the recordings came from Blue Note. An unexpected source for reissues on that label ...

I guess the problem with the 1940s Garners - beyond personal preferences - is that most of the tracks have been reissued many times over elsewhere (e.g. the Savoys). So unless someone is a total newbie to 40s Garner there is not much new that would have warranted the orignal price of the equivalent of some 15 euros at the time IMHO. I came across three of these Garner CDs virtually for free in recent months and took them home, but the bottom line is that they mostly duplicate what is already on the shelves.

All the best to you and keeping my fingers firmly crossed that things will turn out alright after all ... Like others said, here's hoping that medical progress will have the answer for a full recovery. This is a touchy subject for me. Back in 1982 my younger brother died at age 20 from complications in the early stages of leukemia treatment/therapy.

Perusing the "Cash Box" magazines on World Radio History again, I discovered the below cover pic. I suppose it is not all that familiar to everyone around here - so here it is now.

An offer to anyone within reasonable mailing cost distance from here (Germany): I'm clearing out old papers and am about to discard a stack of mailing lists from the renowned "Jazz Is Beck" mail order shop at Munich (Germany). So if there is anyone out there who'd be interested in these lists of new or back-in-stock jazz CD (re)issues with catalog nos., lineups and track listings - for research or whatever other reference or archival reasons - they're yours for the taking: A handful from 1994 and almost all from Jan. 1995 to Sept. 2002 when their mailing lists were discontinued. The only thing I'd ask is reimbursement of the shipping costs (5.20 EUR for a small parcel within Germany, elsewhere at cost). Anyone interested - please be in touch before the end of October. Yes, it's a wild shot but I figured I'd give I'd at least pass out the word this way before dumping them.

I'm certainly not one to belittle the importance of (most often non-soloing) section men but this is a name I cannot recall having consciously noticed before. So I'll read and absorb this profile in more detail later on. Good to see you filled this gap.

The blurb that's everywhere right now ...

Could it be that George Avakian "hipped" Richard Bock to the "benefits" of editing ? IIRC it has often been reported that Avakian did quite a bit of editing on various record productions for Columbia (and received heavy flak for this, as this sort of tampering was considered even less aceptable than later on) in the mid-50s, i.e. before he joined Pacific Jazz.

The RSD advance "blurbs" that are out there do not mention a date for the 1951 recordings from Cleveland so I checked "Bird's Diary" by Ken Vail. If we are to believe its completeness this recording must be from the period between 26 November and 9 December 1951 when Bird played a residency at Lindsay's Sky Bar. According to the Diary he was at Lindsay's on two occasions earlier in 1951 but these were described as dates with his "Strings" band - which does not match the description given in the blurb.

I do not have any info on that "Fortissimo" box set thing beyond what's listed on Discogs (I don't own that set). As for the CD on Be!Jazz 2-CD package (not Bear Family in this case, they only distribute it), I must admit I've only become aware of it fairly recently. It does look very interesting for CD 1. But almost all of CD 2 is a reissue of Naura's three 1950s EPs (1 on Metronome and 2 on Telefunken), and I have all of these. So I'll be on the lookout for a nicer priced copy.

Thanks very much!! That's the only one I've been able to find in the discographies, and after an aural comparison with the Metronome EP in my collection it's that very recording indeed. I might try to compare the three unknowns with other recordings by Naura that I have from this period (just to see if there is some gross mistitling), but I seriously doubt it that this could be the case. Surprising, though, that the below box set (that two of the recordings on the Membran box set SEEM to come from) does not figure in Lord. https://www.discogs.com/de/release/11474034-Michael-Naura-Naura-Box-Fortissimo-Eine-Deutsche-Jazzologie After all it's been out for 17 years now.

It would have been great if Classics had progressed with the Charlie Barnet band up to their 40s recordings on Apollo and Capitol but alas the series stopped long before they got to those years with Barnet.

Thanks anyway, Mike. But what you say reinforces my misgivings about the Lord scheme. Paying on a subscription basis for a (certainly massive) volume that you obviously consult on a frequent (or even more or less constant) basis through the years if not decades. So a subscription sure adds up over time ... Beyond all reason, I wonder? If it wasn't for my initial question that apparently can only be answered by relatively "recent" entries in discographies (due to the fact they seem to be noncommercial recordings that had stayed in the can until comparatively recently) I wouldn't even have brought up Lord's name.

Thanks for checking, Niko. I did find that index online now too. And it seems that titles of the other unknown tracks are too generic to yield SINGLE results. I.e. the index won't get us any further. But the non-existence of "Two Brothers In Law" at least is SOME indicator. Now if anyone has access to the ACTUAL Lord discography ...? (There must be some around here ...)

In most cases, your 1942 starting date then actually means 1943 or 1944 (due to the AFM recording ban). So to try a reply: 1) The Buddy Rich 1946-48 CD (Classics 1099) is definitely recommended! (But much of the contents have also been reissued elsewhere.) The 1945-46 and 1946-51 Georgie Auld CDs should also be nice (I have a large part of their contents on vinyl). Beyond that, I cannot be too specific because I do not have a full overview of which white big bands (swing or bop) were covered in the Classics series up to which date. I did rush through the numerical listing of the series on Discogs, and there do not seem to be all that many white big bands covering the post-1942 years (particularly not lesser-known ones). Many white bands seem to have been late to the game with these reissues and their recordings did not make it far into the 40s by the time the series ran out. Stan Kenton and Gene Krupa were covered into the 50s (but their reissues aren't rare elsewhere either). But beyond that? Certainly not as many "for connoisseurs only" names as with Black jazzmen. If you do not take the music (and yourself) too seriously, try the Louis Prima big band CDs covering the 40s. Their contents fall between his "New Orleans Gang" small group swing of the 30s and his Las Vegas-style jump band of the 50s. A good share of novelties and at times rather pop-ish. 2) IMO all the Coleman Hawkins small group recordings of the mid-40s are VERY much worth a listen. I only have the 1945 (Classics 926) and 1946-47 (984) CDs from this series but there are more. I have not looked actively into the Classics CDs on him, though, as I must have about 95% of his 40s output on vinyl. The above CDs also include a number of tracks that feature him but were released under the nominal leadership of others or as all star sessions.

Nobody ...? Nobody who has access to the Tom Lord discography (or some other more up-to-date source) to check if there is anything indicated in there that might give any clues about the above tracks? Pleeze ...

@John L: I realize that, but (apart from the fact that I'd venture a guess not everyone transfers the CD contents to digital files even today), others did split up their sets. And this is what the browser and buyer is confronted with in those secondhand bins. Because, after all, it is interesting to be able to pick up such records at giveaway prices, and then you come to regret what is missing from the whole set. It is annoying in the case of certain Bear Family and Charly LP boxes, for example, where each single LP that is part of the box set does not come in a plain paper inner sleeve only but has a proper cover of its own and may therefore be more easily treated as an individual LP anyway. Same as with the jewel cases of individual CDs in such box sets. And it is disappointing if, after searching the stock for sale, you still find you are one or two CDs (or LP) short of the entire set, and are missing the booklet and box anyway. Hence my suggestion not to do this in the first place. But in case this wasn't obvious - I was a bit tongue-in-cheek in my "warning" made to Rabshakeh.

But don't do as some (quite serious and long-standing) collectors have done: Split them up and file them individually. And then, when the day comes and the collections end up in some record store those orphaned LPs or CDs will be floating about, separated from their boxes and booklets, with the potential buyer left with the chore of digging through who knows how many racks of discs to assemble the sets back together gain. I've seen this happen with Bear Family, Charly, Rhino and other box sets, and in rare cases even Mosaics. Sometimes I was able to put at least all the LPs/CDs back together again, sometimes it was all in vain.

Now if the Mosaic LP box set (which really looks nice) is out of your price range: I can only speak for myself and my turntable setup but I find the usual vinyl reissues quite listenable: -- the Aladdin tracks on Pathé Marconi (cover with a repro of Aladdin LP803) -- the Apollo sessions on Vogue -- the RCA sessions on "King Jacquet" (RCA Masters series) -- and the Savoys as part of the "The Tenor Sax Album" V.A. double LP in the Savoy-Arista series As none of these reissues are particularly rare you must have come across them before. Do you find these really that unsatisfactory soundwise?

Vinyl might perhaps be your friend - in the guise of that "In Disco Order" series on the Ajax/Ajaz labels - if you are prepared to make some fidelity concessions. But be warned - you'd indeed find many of those vocals fairly forgettable. I've picked up a few LPs by various bands from that series just as the (budget-priced) occasions arose and in an attempt to fill a few discographocal gaps. But most of those vocals really aren't much to write home about. Even many of those Woody Herman vocals (those you won't find on the usual reissue compilations) won't leave much of a lasting impression (except for the occasional novelty vocal that is fun indeed). Though they are more listenable than many of those tearjerking crooners of other orchestras.

I think that was the kind of timeout message I got yesterday morning.

I understand how you feel about Big Jay McNeely. I have a somewhat different (personal and non-representative) stance here because of the sheer excitement and foot-tapping (well, foot-stomping, really) groove of this music. "But that's only me". And I see your point and am not always in the mood to listen through an entire LP or CD by him or Joe Houston et al. (Heck, this should make me wonder why I shelled out those 5 Euros a couple of years ago for that JSP 2-CD box set of McNeely's complete works up to 1954! I have all the music on vinyl and this was strictly "for convenience" anyway. But still ... ) No, beyond this example, there is a different angle: If you listen to certain big bands in complete and chronological order you will probably be underwhelmed by the saccharine vocals of some of their crooners. Often not even very swinging (and therefore not usually included in other, non-complete "comps"...). But a glimpse at the commercial reality of the music even in those corners. Alas, among those band vocalists, Bon Bon (alias George Tunnell, normally with the Jan Savitt Orch.) was one of a kind. And after they made him they broke the mold IMHO. BTW, the "The Three Keys/Bon Bon and His Buddies 1932-42" CD (Classics 1141) is another "sleeper" IMO, at least for swing-era jazz fans.

Or maybe not always so "long lost"? Because reissued before a zillion times in other guises?

My observations: I've not had to log in again at random moments (touch wood! ) but at intermittent and unpredictable moments during recent months the forum has indeed been very slow when loading pages (either when accessing the site for the first time during the day or when moving from one subforum or page to another). Right now it's OK but this morning and early afternoon things were dead slow (including a timeout message). Honestly, I think this may be linked to Cloudflare. I've recently observed on a different website I sometimes visit for searches (and that usually builds up speedily without any fuss) that in recent times they not only have a starting page of the "are you a human being so check all boxes with red lights" (or similar) type to prevent unwanted access by bots. But what is more, this startng page during the past few days has been dead slow to build up and to react to my input. And at the bottom of the page it says something like "powered by Cloudflare". So I'm wondering now ...

Please keep in mind that many of those CLASSICS CDs cover an era when everything that combined more than both sides of a "single" was BOUND TO BE a "comp". Simply because the music is from the 78 rpm era when there were no LPs yet. So whichever way you "collate" more than one single 78 onto the medium of today, you will end up with a "comp". And the strictly chronological approach of the CLASSICS series give you the music as close to what the 78s were like. I.e. except for the odd item released later for the first time (and disregarding the mismatch between the recording matrix sequence and the record release sequence), you get one 78 after the other on these CDs. Which sometimes has a drawback (this is particularly evident in pre-war blues IMO, but also with some of the swing-era big bands or singer/instrumentalist acts that obviously did cater to the larger public too, not just to "hot fans"): Listening to all the music in a row can get tedious at times. So listeners who are not in an "archivist/completist" mood all the time need to remind themselves that the original records were supposed to be listened to ONE RECORD AT A TIME. Not a dozen of them in one uninterrupted swoop. As for the "huge hole" in your listening (c. 1939-52), this is an era that I've always have kept an eye on (particularly for the transitional and cross-pollination aspects of the "swing to bop" period). And this is where IMO the Classics series excels. I've found that many Classics CDs by artists where I've only picked up individual items fall into this time bracket of roughly the mid-40s (give or take a few years). And among those I've bought cheaply secondhand in recent times the same is true, so their previous owners seem to have felt the same way: George Wetling, Bobby Hackett, Erroll Garner, Roy Eldridge, Lucky Thompson, Charlie Shavers, Buddy Rich, Ike Quebec, Russell Jacquet, Slim Gaillard and so on ... The point is: Of course a lot of music from that period has been reissued elsewhere on vinyl and CD through the decades. But this was the era when there were sooo many indie labels and most jazz artists were label-hopping all the time. So while you indeed often got reissues from a number of different labels, most artists had releases on a few more labels (often really rare and obscure ones) that constantly fell by the reissue wayside. But CLASSICS usually has them - because of their strictly chronological approach.