Musicians dress

[fasstrack]

I think the minute someone labels you 'jazz' it raises a sea of expectations. It gets on my nerves. I'd rather they just call it music and let people listen with fresh and open ears. I have a myspace page with things I wrote in a few styles and I can't get the word 'jazz' off there---it annoys the hell out of me. It's not that I'm not proud to be a jazz musician. It's just that I don't want people's reactions pre-determined by what they've been told 'jazz' is. I really believe a big part of what we do is tied to trusting what people can hear if given a chance. They don't have to read critics or eggheads or ask some 'expert' opinion. Just give the music a chance.

Just listen---player or audience----that's the answer for me.

About this we fully agree.

As for the Wynton comment, because that's how I feel about his music. it's my opinion, not an attempt to be inflammatory. Funny, I was pretty hard on my description of Monder and very critical of Donny McCaslin, but that's not taken personal. I mention Wynton and I'm being negative. Perhaps we're accustomed to read into such statements.

Player or audience, listen. About that we agree. Let me ask you, if Dexter Gordon were playing in sweat pants, would you listen? If Kenny G were playing in a tuxedo, would you listen?

I didn't take it personally. I'm neither, you may have noticed, Wynton Marsalis, his agent, or his attorney . I just didn't want to open that can of worms. For the record the encounters I have had with Mr. Marsalis have been very pleasant and I admire him in many ways. I just don't want to veer off into a pro-Wynton---anti-Wynton thang. We've all had enough of that.

Listen, man: I understand your passion and agree with some of your comments. It just was coming on a bit intense, which I'm sure was not meant to be inflammatory. So no offense taken here.

Don't know much about McCaslin or Monder (I've met him, we're both guitarists and have mutual friends) except that they are good players, and that's always a good thing. I guess what I'm saying is that in my band I dress nicely and expect others too. Other bandleaders can do what they want---it's their business. I was just giving my opinion. Ain't no thing.

Edited October 30, 2009 by fasstrack

[tkeith]

I think the minute someone labels you 'jazz' it raises a sea of expectations. It gets on my nerves. I'd rather they just call it music and let people listen with fresh and open ears. I have a myspace page with things I wrote in a few styles and I can't get the word 'jazz' off there---it annoys the hell out of me. It's not that I'm not proud to be a jazz musician. It's just that I don't want people's reactions pre-determined by what they've been told 'jazz' is. I really believe a big part of what we do is tied to trusting what people can hear if given a chance. They don't have to read critics or eggheads or ask some 'expert' opinion. Just give the music a chance.

Just listen---player or audience----that's the answer for me.

About this we fully agree.

As for the Wynton comment, because that's how I feel about his music. it's my opinion, not an attempt to be inflammatory. Funny, I was pretty hard on my description of Monder and very critical of Donny McCaslin, but that's not taken personal. I mention Wynton and I'm being negative. Perhaps we're accustomed to read into such statements.

Player or audience, listen. About that we agree. Let me ask you, if Dexter Gordon were playing in sweat pants, would you listen? If Kenny G were playing in a tuxedo, would you listen?

I didn't take it personally. I'm neither, you may have noticed, Wynton Marsalis, his agent, or his attorney . I just didn't want to open that can of worms. For the record the encounters I have had with Mr. Marsalis have been very pleasant and I admire him in many ways. I just don't want to veer off into a pro-Wynton---anti-Wynton thang. We've all had enough of that.

Listen, man: I understand your passion and agree with some of your comments. It just was coming on a bit intense, which I'm sure was not meant to be inflammatory. So no offense taken here.

Don't know much about McCaslin or Monder (I've met him, we're both guitarists and have mutual friends) except that they are good players, and that's always a good thing. I guess what I'm saying is that in my band I dress nicely and expect others too. Other bandleaders can do what they want---it's their business. I was just giving my opinion. Ain't no thing.

Gotcha. That's totally legitimate. I don't typically dress like a slob, myself, though I won't say it's never happened. Play a lot of bar gigs and venues where it just doesn't matter (very much on the Bohemian side of the equation). I've played gigs in a suit that were bullshit, and I don't like to play bullshit, which is probably where the tense overtones come from.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Gotcha. That's totally legitimate. I don't typically dress like a slob, myself, though I won't say it's never happened. Play a lot of bar gigs and venues where it just doesn't matter (very much on the Bohemian side of the equation).

This is really down to physical and psychological comfort - for you and the audience - and I can understand dressing accordingly.

I've played gigs in a suit that were bullshit, and I don't like to play bullshit, which is probably where the tense overtones come from.

But I bet you can't put your hand on heart and say, "all the gigs I've played in a suit, I've played bullshit." Or conversely, "I only play bullshit when I'm wearing a suit."

MG

[fasstrack]

I think the minute someone labels you 'jazz' it raises a sea of expectations. It gets on my nerves. I'd rather they just call it music and let people listen with fresh and open ears. I have a myspace page with things I wrote in a few styles and I can't get the word 'jazz' off there---it annoys the hell out of me. It's not that I'm not proud to be a jazz musician. It's just that I don't want people's reactions pre-determined by what they've been told 'jazz' is. I really believe a big part of what we do is tied to trusting what people can hear if given a chance. They don't have to read critics or eggheads or ask some 'expert' opinion. Just give the music a chance.

Just listen---player or audience----that's the answer for me.

About this we fully agree.

As for the Wynton comment, because that's how I feel about his music. it's my opinion, not an attempt to be inflammatory. Funny, I was pretty hard on my description of Monder and very critical of Donny McCaslin, but that's not taken personal. I mention Wynton and I'm being negative. Perhaps we're accustomed to read into such statements.

Player or audience, listen. About that we agree. Let me ask you, if Dexter Gordon were playing in sweat pants, would you listen? If Kenny G were playing in a tuxedo, would you listen?

I didn't take it personally. I'm neither, you may have noticed, Wynton Marsalis, his agent, or his attorney . I just didn't want to open that can of worms. For the record the encounters I have had with Mr. Marsalis have been very pleasant and I admire him in many ways. I just don't want to veer off into a pro-Wynton---anti-Wynton thang. We've all had enough of that.

Listen, man: I understand your passion and agree with some of your comments. It just was coming on a bit intense, which I'm sure was not meant to be inflammatory. So no offense taken here.

Don't know much about McCaslin or Monder (I've met him, we're both guitarists and have mutual friends) except that they are good players, and that's always a good thing. I guess what I'm saying is that in my band I dress nicely and expect others too. Other bandleaders can do what they want---it's their business. I was just giving my opinion. Ain't no thing.

Gotcha. That's totally legitimate. I don't typically dress like a slob, myself, though I won't say it's never happened. Play a lot of bar gigs and venues where it just doesn't matter (very much on the Bohemian side of the equation). I've played gigs in a suit that were bullshit, and I don't like to play bullshit, which is probably where the tense overtones come from.

Understood, bro

[Hot Ptah]

The best live performance I ever witnessed by Wynton Marsalis was in a small club in Milwaukee. The Jazz Messengers, including Wynton, all wore blue jean bib overalls. Wynton had a bushy, unkempt, untrimmed beard.

Bobby Watson told me a few years ago that this was Wynton's fourth gig with the Jazz Messengers.

I saw Wynton in one of his first gigs with his quintet, in the spring of 1982, in another small club, in Madison, Wisconsin, and he wore a suit.

Both times he played great, better than I have witnessed from him in recent years.

Did his dress matter to anyone in either audience.? I doubt it.

In his dressing room between sets at the spring, 1982, show, one of the journalists kept asking him what kind of suit he was wearing, was it an Italian suit, why were all of the guys in his group in suits. Wynton grew very impatient and said in a grouchy voice that he just mentioned to the guys that he wanted them in suits, and that there was nothing more to it, and that is was not worth talking about.

[AllenLowe]

in case anyone thought I was kidding:

[tkeith]

in case anyone thought I was kidding:

I knew better, Allen. As for attired, the first time I saw Rasul Siddik, he literally had dust in his dreads, but man, he played the shit out of that horn!

MG -- you are correct, I once saw a slovenly tenor player with Cedar Walton who was just awful. I also saw James Carter dressed to the nines (also with Walton) playing his ass off.

There is a national guy who plays in my area who plays in a very traditional style. A friend -- whom I like, but kind of clash with musically -- raved about how polished this guy was: "His slacks had a militaristic crease in them, and his suit fit perfectly. He played that way too -- he was unbelievable!" I listen to that same player and hear a guy playing what he has memorized in a practice room -- playing in an antiquated style that has very little to do with the current state of music. I don't care how a guy dresses, I just want him to push himself to his creative edge. Failure to do so results in the loss of my musical respect. Dressing shabbily does not.

[AllenLowe]

I seem to recall a line from Monty Python: "he was very military."

[Norm]

Just watched the DVD "The Miles Davis Story" and there was one section in there about the time he was married to Frances (was it '59 to 65 or so?). Anyway, she was interviewed and recalled that Miles liked to strut around town in tailored Italian suits and how the two of them were quite a spectacle to be seen on the streets. I thought that was pretty cool. Of course that was back in the day. Not too long later (during the beginning of the electric period) he and his bandmates were working some crazy ensembles. And thats cool too.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Norm

[Tom Storer]

There is a specific group of guys (and naming one of them seemed to ruffle some feathers) who, in my estimation, seem to spend as much time worrying about their wardrobe as they do the music. As a consequence, I find their music uninteresting and programmatic.

This sounds very much like you are blaming faults in the music on the musicians' sartorial attitudes. They pay a lot of attention to their wardrobe and "as a consequence" you don't like their music?

You're being argumentative. I said precisely what I mean. There are musicians whose music lacks the spark I seek as a listener. Many of them are the well dressed variety I see on the glossy, highly produced record covers. I'm not suggesting their wardrobe influences my ears, you are. I'm not concerned if you agree, I'm merely stating the way I see it. You're welcome to your own opinion, but don't put words in my mouth.

I just want to defend myself against the charge of putting words in your mouth. You said: in your estimation, some musicians worry as much about their wardrobe as their music. Then you said, "As a consequence," you don't like their music. Maybe you didn't mean to say that you don't like their music because you think they're too concerned with their dress, but that is what you said. Taken literally. I will allow that I may have been guilty of nitpicking. And with that I will say no more on that particular subject.

[AllenLowe]

not sure what it has to do with anything, but I used to play with a Western Swing band and the leader complained that I didn't own any cowboy shirts.

[papsrus]

I honestly could care less what someone wears while playing music. If they want to wear tuxedos, have at it. Potato sacks work fine, too. Costumes of all sorts welcome. (all within reason, of course. If a band came out dressed like Kiss and began playing like Ellington, that might be a little hard to reconcile at first.)

Who am I to judge? I'm in shorts and a T-shirt most of the time.