valve and slide

[alocispepraluger102]

i heard a nice album from 1960 by bob brookmeyer with curtis fuller on slide. were any other groups fronted by valve-slide combinations? this one, of course sounded awesome.

[Chuck Nessa]

NMCOT.

[Free For All]

I believe Mike Fahn (valve) and Andy Martin (slide) have done at least one recording together.

[JohnS]

i heard a nice album from 1960 by bob brookmeyer with curtis fuller on slide. were any other groups fronted by valve-slide combinations? this one, of course sounded awesome.

Great record and one I've not played in a while. Thanks for the reminder Aloc, I'll dig it out for play later.

[Jazzmoose]

There's no such thing as a valve trombone. That's a bass trumpet...

[jeffcrom]

There's no such thing as a valve trombone. That's a bass trumpet...

Brookmeyer plays a valve trombone. They were common in the late 19th century, less so in the 20th. It's shaped like a trombone and has the same internal characteristics - the shape of the bore is that of a trombone. The bass trumpet looks more like a flugelhorn on steroids - no long piece of tubing sticking out at the front. The shape of the bore is different, although I don't know the details on that.

[Ted O'Reilly]

The valve trombone may even be the original jazz trombone... Cavalry bands had them (hard to play a slide 'bone on a horse), and when made surplus were cheap to buy and often available. Early jazzers played them more often than one might think.

A couple of good valve players are both Canadian -- Rob McConnell and Maynard Ferguson. As to bass trumpet, I'd guess Cy Touff would come to mind for most of us. Hear 'em side by side and you can tell the difference.

(Edited to correct spelling).

Edited March 6, 2010 by Ted O'Reilly

[Peter Friedman]

I believe Mike Fahn (valve) and Andy Martin (slide) have done at least one recording together.

This is the one you may have been referring to above.

Dick Berk and The Jazz Adoption Society - Bouncin' With Berk - 9 Winds 0142

[Harold_Z]

This is as good a spot as any to interject - Check out Brad Gowans and his valide. Brad was an early member of the Condon gang and was a valve trombonist. Sometime in the 40s he invented the valide - a combination valve and slide trombone. He was working pretty much in a dixieland format and wanted to be able to get the "tailgate" in that the valve didn't fulfill.

[Jazzmoose]

There's no such thing as a valve trombone. That's a bass trumpet...

Brookmeyer plays a valve trombone. They were common in the late 19th century, less so in the 20th. It's shaped like a trombone and has the same internal characteristics - the shape of the bore is that of a trombone. The bass trumpet looks more like a flugelhorn on steroids - no long piece of tubing sticking out at the front. The shape of the bore is different, although I don't know the details on that.

Heck, I was joking; I had no idea there was a real bass trumpet!

[Ted O'Reilly]

This is as good a spot as any to interject - Check out Brad Gowans and his valide. Brad was an early member of the Condon gang and was a valve trombonist. Sometime in the 40s he invented the valide - a combination valve and slide trombone. He was working pretty much in a dixieland format and wanted to be able to get the "tailgate" in that the valve didn't fulfill.

On one of Bobby Hackett's last gigs he played with Rob McConnell in Toronto and remarked the last time he played with a valve trombonist was indeed Brad Gowans. (Who also played clarinet well...)

As for bass trumpet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_trumpet

[Shrdlu]

The Moose has a point, though. The valve trombone is a kinda bass trumpet, the existence of an official one notwithstanding.

There's a similar situation with the bassoon vis-à-vis the oboe. Isn't the bassoon a bass (or baritone) oboe? Well, no. Its fingerings and key layout are utterly different. I wish they made a bass oboe, i.e., a larger oboe with the same keywork, as the bassoon's keywork and fingerings are an absolute disaster. After all, the bass, and the other deep, clarinets have exactly the same keywork and fingerings as the regular one.