Mostly Other People Do the Killing

[BeBop]

What do you think?

I see some people here "Listening" to them. I've heard only clips/samples. They get some hype in the magazines.

[theteach]

I think they have put themselves in a box. Do they play clever music? Yep. But it seems like they have confined themselves to solely playing commentary on the free/avant garde jazz movement. There's no doubt these guys can play; however, I wonder what could these guys can add to the latest in free jazz if they really took this stuff seriously. But then again, that's why they are MOPDTK. They mock the serious!

Lou

[Hoppy T. Frog]

I think they have put themselves in a box. Do they play clever music? Yep. But it seems like they have confined themselves to solely playing commentary on the free/avant garde jazz movement. There's no doubt these guys can play; however, I wonder what could these guys can add to the latest in free jazz if they really took this stuff seriously. But then again, that's why they are MOPDTK. They mock the serious!

Lou

To be fair, Peter Evans and Joe Irabagon are doing very serious things on their own, under their own names.

[Free For All]

Joe Irabagon

Jon

[theteach]

I think they have put themselves in a box. Do they play clever music? Yep. But it seems like they have confined themselves to solely playing commentary on the free/avant garde jazz movement. There's no doubt these guys can play; however, I wonder what could these guys can add to the latest in free jazz if they really took this stuff seriously. But then again, that's why they are MOPDTK. They mock the serious!

Lou

To be fair, Peter Evans and Joe Irabagon are doing very serious things on their own, under their own names.

Absolutely. Peter Evans is quite a player. He carries the band. I just would love to see what this band could do gimmicks aside. I think they could do a lot.

Lou

[jlhoots]

IMHO they're great.

I don't hear what they're doing as gimmickry.

[sonnymax]

I agree. I bought their first three recordings (MOPDTK, Shamokin!!!, This Is Our Moosic) and will probably pick up the new Forty Fort. I wasn't aware they were being "gimmicky" or less than serious, other than their cover art or composition titles. I just like their music.

[clifford_thornton]

I still have yet to sit down and listen to these records, though I am intrigued. Kevin Shea is one of my personal favorite "young drummers" on the scene, and Peter Evans is a force to be reckoned with as well. Shea's work in Talibam! and Sexy Thoughts might not be for the faint of heart but I think it's excellent.

[Guest Bill Barton]

I think they have put themselves in a box. Do they play clever music? Yep. But it seems like they have confined themselves to solely playing commentary on the free/avant garde jazz movement. There's no doubt these guys can play; however, I wonder what could these guys can add to the latest in free jazz if they really took this stuff seriously. But then again, that's why they are MOPDTK. They mock the serious!

Lou

I've followed their recordings since the first one and would like very much to hear them in performance. I mostly disagree with the preceding assessment.

They are about as far from being in a box as any group that I can think of. I don't hear what they're doing as "commentary" on free/avant garde. They are playing music that utilizes the full spectrum of jazz and lots more.

Sure, it's clever. Sure, on occasion they mock the serious. There are a few groups that manage to keep a sense of humor about what they do and still produce music that is as serious as your life. Sex Mob, Reptet, MOPDTK... Mocking the serious doesn't mean lack of creativity, vision, originality, virtuosity or soul.

[ep1str0phy]

Sure, it's clever. Sure, on occasion they mock the serious. There are a few groups that manage to keep a sense of humor about what they do and still produce music that is as serious as your life. Sex Mob, Reptet, MOPDTK... Mocking the serious doesn't mean lack of creativity, vision, originality, virtuosity or soul.

Kevin Shea drum solo...

I agree with the above statement--it's a band of virtuosos with a great deal of creativity and a very direct vision. I also agree, however, that this vision is centered to a large extent on commentary on a post-free jazz landscape--to the extent that the music excels in spite of caricature or shtick (Shea's farce on the uber-intensity of the jazz drum solo, above, falls into this category, I think). The group seems to take as its starting point familiar conceits (e.g., the drum solo) and stretch them to the point that the listener isn't really questioning whether it "works" or operates within the given conventions of the idiom--rather, it makes things laughable and not improper or disrespectful to do so--the vehicle, of course, being a well-versed understanding of the music at its origins and extreme technical prowess. (I do like how this group does manage to challenge anti-free naysaying about technical ability, all while doing not-so-serious stuff... I wouldn't want to tangle with a group that can play "A Night In Tunisia" both so tough and so ridiculous.)

For my tastes, though, the music does get a little glib, and I am left wondering what this combination of talents (if not this "band") could do with a little infusion of severity (they're all killer musicians, to be sure). The more I think we're reaching a sort of sea change in the way people deal in the post-free era, the more I am actually getting a little sick of antiseriousness in all its forms.

I recall the liners to This Is Our Moosic describing Coltrane as "macho" (and I've heard this from other folks I very much respect on different occasions), which suggests to me a disconnect with the music. It actually scares me to see people "hear" spiritual quartet Coltrane as devices first and sound/power/vibe second--but this is and has been happening--all the loss for the music, despite the technical leaps and bounds we've made in the past 30-40 years... I do know of many among my peers who look at the music as more of just a collection of devices and techniques--all the more power to MOPDTK for having a "message"--but there is something to be said for the as serious as your life ethos of guts and glory.

Complete tangent, but I'm more moved by the post-free but not quite free jazz Flying Lotus (Alice Coltrane's nephew)--allegedly at the "forefront" of a more emotionally moving hip-hop--whose music does acknowledge jazz, pop, and electronic innovations of recent decades (often in a referential manner), but does so with emotional depth, aplomb, and absolutely no unwieldy baggage with "legacy" (unlike essentially every prominent jazz act of today).

Edited June 3, 2010 by ep1str0phy

[papsrus]

Thoughtful post.

Did you mean to say 'reverential' in the final sentence?

I'd add Zappa to Bill's list of those who produce(d) music that is at the same time irreverent and substantial.

Edited June 3, 2010 by papsrus