BFT #81 Discussion

[Tom in RI]

The links for downloads are in the signup thread. If anyone wants discs mailed I am happy to do that. I can't see the files at Megaupload so I have no idea if anyone has downloaded yet. If there's a problem, please let me know. Otherwise, lets get to it.

[Hot Ptah]

I have only listened to Disc 1 so far. This is one of the most sheerly enjoyable BFTs I have heard.

1. Sounds like an ECM cut to me, but I cannot place it. The guitarist has a sound which is very familiar from ECM records. A very appealing opener.

2. Either Wayne Shorter or someone influenced by him. I am not familiar with any album of his with an acoustic quartet and then a group of brass adding backgrounds at times. Sounds like late 1960s Blue Note, the Speak Like a Child type of sound.

3. I have no idea. At times I thought it could be Herbie Hancock, but if so, it is an album which I am not familiar with. I really like the tenor saxophonists' tone.

4. "Lonnie's Lament". I couldn't place it at first but knew it was a song I had heard very often in its original version. Then I suddenly remembered Coltrane's "Crescent" album. Is this Anat Cohen on clarinet, from the Poetica album?

5. I like this a lot, especially the Latin rhythms, but have no idea who it is.

6. It sounds like a Jobim tune, for trumpet, acoustic guitar and accordian. I don't know who it is.

7. This is Miles Davis' song "Filles de Killamanjaro". Could it be from George Schuller's "Round 'bout Now" album?

8. The Beatles "Long and Winding Road", with alto sax, baritone sax and acoustic bass soloists. I have no idea who it is. I like the lyricism of the alto sax player. This material can become sappy when played by jazz musicians, but it was not so this time.

9. No idea. The first guitar solo had a tone which I have heard on Frank Zappa's 1988 live CDs, such as "Make a Jazz Noise Here", but it is most certainly not Frank. It may be the sound of a particular kind of guitar synthesizer setting.

10. I am missing this song on my physical disc. Those who received a download should have it.

11. Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water", with a short passage lifted from Santana's "No One to Depend On" (I think--it's a very familiar Santana moment from one of the first three Santana albums). I have no idea who this is.

This was great fun! I can't wait to play Disc 2!

Edited December 9, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[Jim R]

6. It sounds like a Jobim tune, for trumpet, acoustic guitar and accordian.

The tune is Django Reinhardt's "Manoir de mes rêves" (aka "Django's Castle"). In the opening bars, it's a bit reminiscent of Jobim's "Dindi".

Edited December 8, 2010 by Jim R

[Tom in RI]

Hi Jim, so glad you downloaded the BFT. I hope you enjoyed as much as Hot Ptah. I was starting to get a little worried. So, Hot Ptah, as I haven't done one of these before, should I comment on your comments or send a PM?

[Jim R]

Hi Tom, I've been pretty busy, but hopefully I'll find more time to participate. Frankly, most of what I've heard so far is a bit outside my realm of familiarity, but still interesting.

You should go ahead and comment here with responses. Traditionally, leaders try to limit the amount of info (revealing answers) until later in the discussion, so that people remain "blindfolded" in the earlier stages.

[Tom in RI]

Well all right then. I agree about #5, its a track that every time I play it, I seem to repeat it right away, can't get enough of it. Regarding #8, yeah I think its pretty easy to mishandle this kind of material, this group, though, is pretty spot on I think. There are no ECM cuts here (not that there'd be anything wrong with that).

[Hot Ptah]

Hi Tom, I've been pretty busy, but hopefully I'll find more time to participate. Frankly, most of what I've heard so far is a bit outside my realm of familiarity, but still interesting.

You should go ahead and comment here with responses. Traditionally, leaders try to limit the amount of info (revealing answers) until later in the discussion, so that people remain "blindfolded" in the earlier stages.

I agree with that. However, if someone does guess the exact artist, song and album, or some combination of the three, the leader will generally provide that confirmation.

[Tom in RI]

#4 and #7 are as identified by Hot Ptah. Well done.

HP has 10 cuts on disc 1, I'm not sure what happened as I thought I had uploaded 11, can any confirm how many cuts they have? On the plus side, its clear from HP's comments which cut is missing, perceptive listener he is.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Tom in RI

[Hot Ptah]

#4 and #7 are as identified by Hot Ptah. Well done.

HP has 10 cuts on disc 1, I'm not sure what happened as I thought I had uploaded 11, can any confirm how many cuts they have? On the plus side, its clear from HP's comments which cut is missing, perceptive listener he is.

I have changed my post in which I discuss the songs on Disc 1 to state that I am missing Track 10.

[Hot Ptah]

I also enjoyed Disc 2 very much. I know much less about the music on Disc 2.

1, 2, 3, 4. These are very interesting songs, very well played, and no doubt by musicians which I should be able to identify. I am coming up empty though. I am not very good at identifying specific musicians by ear. The different sections of the arrangement on Track 2 are intriguing--I am interested to see who the arranger is on Track 2.

5. This is the song "Four" in a Latin jazz version with a vocalist--I have no idea who he is, but he can really scat.

6. Is that an oud? It sounds like a recent recording, and I have no idea who it is, but I like the sound a lot.

7. Is this bassist Avishai Cohen's group? I really like the sound of the horns with the bass.

8. I think that the piano solo and the trumpet solo are both outstanding. Is that Dave Douglas?

9. This is a very familiar tune, a jazz standard, and it is maddening that I cannot think of the song title. Wait, wait, it's coming to me....no it's not. In the original version which I am very familiar with, this tenor saxophonist did not solo. It's a really good version of this song.

10. Is that a melodica? If so, is it Monty Alexander? I am not familiar with the album, but I don't know of anyone else who has soloed on it at any length.

11. An acoustic guitar version of Coltrane's "Giant Steps". The guitarist reminds me of Duck Baker.

Well, those comments were just meant to get the discussion going. I am sure that others can do far better than me.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[seeline]

I'm jumping in here very late - lovely sets, Tom!

Haven't yet read anyone's replies (except for the one about the title of "Manoir de mes rêves"), but... I think I'm hearing some Enrico Rava and/or Paolo Fresu on disc one (maybe some playing by Richard Galliano as well?).

Disc 1, tk 5 is Jerry Gonzalez and the Fort Apache Band, "Moliendo Cafe" (from the album of the same title). He's a favorite of mine - and somehow my iPod's "shuffle" setting coughed this one up a few days ago, or I wouldn't have known it for certain. I love the band (Larry Willis, piano; Andy Gonzalez, bass; Steve Berrios, drums and percussion; Carter Jefferson, ts; I think Jerry also played both congas and trumpet on this recording).

My guess on Disc 2, tk. 5, is that the clarinetist is Paquito D'Rivera, but beyond that, am not sure of anything... the vocalist is very intriguing, and I feel like I should know who he is.

Edited to add: is that possibly Rudy Calzado? (vcl) (Kind of a wild guess, as i'm not aware of him doing jazz singing before, just Cuban and salsa...)

It can't be Rudy. Don't know what I was thinking earlier!

Disc 2, tk 9 - is that a Horace Silver tune? D'oh! The tune is "Mount Harissa" from Ellington's Far East Suite, but I have no idea who's playing here. Really nice version; I like the way the percussion is handled.

Disc 2, tk 11: "Giant Steps" on nylon-string guitar! Gene Bertoncini, maybe? Very, very nice!

I'll be back later, when I've had a bit more time to listen!

Edited December 12, 2010 by seeline

[seeline]

Question: is anyone else short a track for Disc 2?

I think tk 10 is missing from the DL, but...

Edited December 11, 2010 by seeline

[Spontooneous]

Okay, time to embarrass myself. Didn't manage to identify a single track on Disc One. But that won't stop me from shooting my mouth off.

1. I feel like I'm in ECM land. Best soloist is the guitarist. Are the twining tenor lines overdubs? (I'm not bothered by that.)

2. Love the shape of the tune, and the artful pacing of the arrangement. Not much wrong with the playing either.

3. The ensemble of clarinets gives me flashbacks to BFT 80. It's one of those mid-tempo grooves that Wynton Marsalis favors, but the writing is too good to be his. These must be players young enough to consider him an influence. The alto soloist plays some Ornette licks. I've never heard these influences put together like this. I like.

4. So the clarinets continue! Maybe Paquito and a small string ensemble? The piano soloist tries too hard. But I like the abrupt ending.

5. Maybe my attention span's getting shorter as I get older. Seems like this one takes too long to get to the point. I don't dislike it, though. Maybe I'm just not relaxed enough to get on this wavelength today. Tenor solo seems like the best of the bunch.

6. At first the pulsing bass has me expecting the Who's "My Generation." And the trumpet theme has me expecting "On the Trail." Then the accordion comes in. I suspect we're in ECM country again. I don't know what just happened here, but I kind of like.

7. It's "Filles de Kilimanjaro," obviously not the original. About time people started playing this tune. Another accordion! Like the trumpet, the tenor's dark tone, and the drumming. Not bothered by the accordion, here or on 6.

8. "The Long And Winding Road." Sure, why not? At least it isn't "Blackbird," which I've gotten very tired of hearing in jazz contexts. This heats up nicely after a couple of minutes.

9. Can't work up much enthusiasm for this one, I'm afraid. Just not a type of jazz that I respond much to.

10. The tune engages me, but not much about the playing does.

11. It really is "Smoke on the Water," isn't it? But once again, the playing doesn't say much to me.

I'm liking just about everything here, Tom. More to come.

[Spontooneous]

On to Disc Two.

1. The tune is Cedar Walton's "Ojos de Rojo." The ensemble is bottom-heavy but doesn't sound bad at all. The tenor solo doesn't do much for me, but I love the poise of the piano solo. Eventually, I figured out it's the version here.

2. Never liked synthesized strings, but that part is over quickly. Shorter-ish tenor, but the presence of all those other horns suggests it isn't him. After a while it turns into something simpler and less studio-slick, and I like it better.

3. This is some pop tune I should recognize, isn't it? But I don't. I like the arrangement and the living-room atmosphere.

4. Oh, I know I've heard this, and it's in my collection somewhere. Don't care for the tenor solo (don't care for Breckerish tenor in general). But it picks up nicely after that.

5. Clever! Was the vocal melody composed to complement the "Four" changes, or is this just a happy coincidence? Is that Paquito on clarinet? (I'm just going to keep guessing Paquito until I get one right.)

6. That's some sort of exotic baritone guitar? I like.

7. Again, my brain is telling me this is in my collection somewhere. The solos hold my attention very well. The improvised counterpoint works. Yeah!

8. Love the writing. Often I tune out when the drummer does military-style rolls, but this performance keeps bringing me back. Can't ID it specifically, but is this from Dave Douglas?

9. Reviving Ellington's "Mount Harissa" is a good idea. The Joe Henderson-inspired tenor solo is fine (I don't often say that). The end of the original always feels anticlimactic, but the end of this one works very well. I'm liking Disc Two even more than Disc One, Tom.

10. More accordion that doesn't suck! At least it doesn't suck in small doses. Really nice bass work back there.

11 A memorable "Giant Steps." On a Spanish guitar? Then it morphs into Dameron's "On a Misty Night." Beautiful.

This is a good listen, Tom, and it's going to send me on quests to find some of these CDs. Thank you!

[Tom in RI]

You guys are good. Seeline correctly id'ed disc 1 #5. Both Seeline and Spontooneous have the right idea on the clarinet player on disc 2 #5.Spontooneous has pegged disc 2 #1. Between Hot Ptah, Spontooneous and Seeline we have the pieces making up disc 2 #11. Disc 2 #8 seems to remind people of Dave Douglas but it is not Dave Douglas. Disc 2 #9 correctly id'ed by Seeline and Spontooneous, now who do you think is playing?

Seeline, I donwnloaded disc 2 myself yesterday to double check, I get 11 tracks, track 10 is tagged differently, it wasn't in the CDDB database (or whatever database the computer goes to to id tunes) so I didn't alter the mp3 tags on that track.

Thanks for participating guys.

[seeline]

Disc 2 tk 8: is that from a Guillermo Klein album? Something about the way the horn chart is written makes me think that... although the piano solo and the rolls on snare seem like they should be on someone else's album.

At any rate, there's some very interesting stuff happening there, although I don't care for those repeated snare rolls.

Edited to add: checked my collection - not Klein. Hmmm...

Disc 2 tk 6: definitely an oud being played there, although I think it's an American musician, not someone from the Middle East, if only because of the dissonant strumming. Probably someone from NYC; maybe one of the crowd that used to play at Tonic. ; )

Not crazy about the cut overall, but it has its moments.

Edited December 12, 2010 by seeline

[Dan Gould]

Had to check out what my friend Tom put on his BFT. Now I'm not sure I want to be his friend anymore. :P

Just kidding.

Overall observation is that I kept waiting/hoping for a track with what our old friend Hardbop called "the hard swing". Had to wait for Disc 2 to kick off, and then I really lucked out, even though the swing was latinized, not straight. Having listened to Cedar's Midnight Waltz disc this morning, I dug out his two Astor Place discs and by happy coincidence immediately recognized this as track 2 here. Lucky too that I did hear this earlier today, because I'm sure this one would have driven me nuts otherwise. Cedar rules!

On "The Long and Winding Road" and "Smoke on the Water" tracks - these remind me first that I very rarely find that modern pop records can be successfully approached from a jazz perspective. "Road" especially - the theme was saccharine sweet, then when they got to the meat of the improv, it just reminded me of the old complaint about jazz: They play the tune, then they just play whatever they want, then play the tune again. NMCOT but YMMV.

As for the rest of Disc 2, would have much preferred the Jon Hendricks lyrics to "Four" - Giacomo Gates performance on Blue Skies always sticks in my mind after hearing it. This, not so much.

Its always interesting to see what others regard as unique/special/memorable. Tom told me I might find his BFT more on the "dainty" side and he was right. But I'm still glad I gave it a listen.

[seeline]

Disc 2, tk 9: Damn - I used to have this album!

It's "The Other Side of Ellington," with Matt Wilson on drums, Joel Frahm, ts; David Berkman, p; Ben Allison, bass; Pete McCann, g.

I wish I hadn't traded this one away... at the time it came out, there were (it seemed) a kazillion tributes to both Ellington and Strayhorn flooding the record store browsers, and I guess I wasn't listening closely enough.

I've heard Matt W. play live - only once, but there were some things on this cut that rang a distant bell. (His use of the toms was one.)

Again, really nice cut!

Edited December 12, 2010 by seeline

[Tom in RI]

Seeline has pegged another. Dan, I felt these would be a bit subdued for you but I'm glad you gave it a listen. If I do another BFT in the future I'm thinking all baritone, that might be more in the pocket.

[seeline]

Tom, I used to write reviews. That's why some of these discs/cuts ring a bell.

fwiw, I've heard Gene Bertonicini live several times and know that he likes to weave some pieces into and out of each other, as here. Kinda gives me an unfair advantage, though I didn't get "On a Misty Night."

As for Matt Wilson's playing, I think there's rarely a wasted note, and he's very melodic. If I played kit myself, I'd want to go for a similar sound. (Am a hand percussionist who occasionally uses brushes and lightweight sticks for effects and/or when I'm playing some of the African drums that I like.)

Edited December 12, 2010 by seeline

[king ubu]

ok, after all the fuss... I just finished disc one - some very nice stuff, mostly recent-ish, some of it suffering from the very same that lots of recent NYC mainstream jazz seems to suffer... but some of it very, very nice! so then, I've not read anything above, typed while listening... not many guesses, really, just some impressions. will not read here before having posted my impressions on disc two (tomorrow hopefully).

DISC ONE

#1 - Hm, I have a definitive feeling I should be able to pin these guys down... twin guitars... nice repetitive lines, very warm sound... touches of Metheny or Frisell, but these are younger guys, right? More likely someone such as Shepik, Cardenas... touches of Chris Speed, the Claudia Quintet... that kind of bag. Nice but not capturing my attention all that much in the end.

#2 - Very good one! Great soprano sound, with a little bit of a husky sound... and just the right amount of "cry" in between to loosen it up a bit. Very nice touches from the drummer (those soft, soft rolls!). No clue really, but sounds like a pretty recent performance, too... a shot in the dark: Jane Ira Bloom (with Fred Hersch)? Ah, there's a 'bone in the ensemble, too... hm, no idea really who this might be, but this is nice!

#3 - You seem to like your music high-pitched, huh? Nice arrangement here... jumpy piano solo... I like it more and more as it goes along. Nice alto solo... solid phrasing... Kenny Garrett? The drummer gets pretty busy - like it! And it does swing!

#4 - Ooooh, nice! What's that tune again? Love it! Clarinet with strings... sounds marvellous! It's a Coltrane ballad, isn't it? Lovely clarinet playing! Oh, what's this now? Is this Trovesi? These rhythms with the tambourine or whatever it is... hm, the piano gets a bit too... easy-flowing simplish. Loved the opening and the clarinet solo, but then it kind of gets lost.

#5 - South of the border... what kind of rhythms are these? Dense arrangement, nice flowing trumpet with a soft and classy sound. Dizzy's influence looms all over this... the hand drums and all the percussion gets a bit too much now and then, but the solos flow nicely on top of the rhythms and the bass carries it.

#6 - Ooh, squeezebox... Dave Douglas and Guy Klucevsek are my first thought here... Charms of the Night Sky territory... but of course there's guitar and no violin... very nice! Sentimental, but never quite kitschy. And the bass keeps a good groove going all the time. Touches of "Love for Sale" early on... and some "Poinciana" kind of stuff. No clue who these guys could really be, but it's charming!

#7 - More accordion here... and the tune is familiar of course, Miles second quintet material, or slightly later... one of the endlessly flowing open tunes (Directions?). Nice with the bass clarinet, accordion, vibes, double bass... and another lyrical trumpet soloist on top. Very good! This is one of my favorites so far! Good tenor, and a very nice arrangement!

#8 - More similar stuff - very groovy! Great barisax accompaniment... very nice sound here, sparse and clear. Cool moment as the barisax begins the solo! Rough and tumble... ah, no solo really, more like a dialogue. Good stuff! Are there two drummers here? Another favorite, for sure! (And yes, I gave up the guessing/name-dropping by now... most of this seems to be from recent times and I'm not familiar with too much recent jazz of this sort... some of it I might enjoy better in a live setup, but this one here's fine!)

#9 - Good sequencing, Jeff! This one I like a bit less though. Good groove, but the solo guitar sounds too thin and distorted, more Sco in there.

#10 - Sorry to say, but by now the sound of several of the tracks gets a bit same-ish... tenor, guitar, double bass... nothing bad about this, but it just flows a bit too easily... Chris Cheek and Kurt Rosenwinkel are musicians that come to mind. I'm often having a hard time articulating what bothers me (or fails to grab me) about their music, and it's the same here... there's no fault to it, but it has a slightly cold feeling to me, even though the tenor solo is pretty good. Oh wait, there are two tenors... the second one, entering after the long solo has a less Coltrane-ish sound (did he have a longer solo first, too?)... anyway, no time to repeat now, and as is often the case with such contemporary jazz, my mind would wander again and not pay attention during a repeated listen either...

#11 - Ha, what's that again? Fun stuff! Electric bass makes for a change in sound... gots his Jaco down... again twin guitars... that seems to be a sound you enjoy particularly? But this again feels rather cold-ish to me, I'm sorry to say. And the bass does get somewhat obtrusive.

Thanks for the ride, Jeff! Looking forward to disc two now! The opening tune sounds good so far!

[Tom in RI]

Hey Flurin, you are the 1st person to pick on the two drummers in #8. I get that the mood should have been more varied on this disc.

[king ubu]

DISC TWO

#1 - Sounds about like I'd imagine a McCoy Tyner big band to sound... solid stuff, a Jazz Messengers vibe... good tenor! Not Billy Harper by any chance? The tune sounds very familiar, too - even as it can be felt during the solos...

#2 - Similar fare... electric bass, but more fine large ensemble music. Good groove! Very good trombone solos! Smooth soft sound on the second.

#3 - More slick sequencing... theme sounds like a mexican bolero... lovely! Nice twangy guitar... and another great sax solo here! Very nice, how the balance between the soft and the exciting is kept!

#4 - On we go... very good tenor solo, lovely sound!

#5 - Oooh, and now we're definitely in Cuba? Nice stuff, but not my home turf, so I can't say too much about it.

#6 - Another groove... guitar has a slightly arab feel to it, sounding similar to an oud here and there. Nice how it builds and releases tension. And another piece with two guitars - who'd have thunk it?!

#7 - Great bass opening! Wow, this is nice! Soothing melody... or rather melodies, layered on top of each other by trumpet, alto, tenor, before the go into a theme with the tenor providing counterpoint... very good tenor solo, with fine bass accompaniment and some good sparse drumming (not recorded nicely though, the drums).

Got to repeat this one... lovely! The alto almost sounds like a soprano in its first line! Love this one!

#8 - Another nice and moody piece with slight hints at tango in the rhythm... nice one, but fails to grab me as much as the preceding track, though the trumpet solo beginning halfway in is very nice!

#9 - Nice groove, catchy piano! Lovely tenor... catchy tune that does sound somewhat familiar. Like this one!

#10 - Yowzah! Love this one with the accordion and the different rhythms stacked... very cool! Two accordions? Really? And here's a warm guitar sound I enjoy!

#11 - Oh, what's that tune again? A staple! Love it! Solo guitar... not something I listen too often, Joe Pass would be the first to come to mind... or Lenny Breau. But I'm not familiar with neither's output, really. A lovely closer!

Thanks a lot for the ride, Tom! Enjoyed it!

[jeffcrom]

Finally got around to writing down some impressions of disc 1. I feel like I don't have a lot to say about it, partially because the general tone/feel of much of the music wasn't really to my taste. Everything was very well done, but it was all kind of pretty and clean for me, and it was mostly medium-tempo. After awhile I was craving some organ grease, or a growl trumpet, or some uptempo bebop, or a nasty, overblown saxophone. But that's just me, I guess. Anyway, I haven't read anything in this thread.

1. Sounds like it might be Joshua Redman, but I don’t really know. I like this well enough, but I kept expecting/hoping that it would go somewhere else.

2. Beautiful soprano sound. The mellow, “static” quality doesn’t bother me here, because the solos are so well constructed. Yeah, some fireworks might have been nice, but this is good. I would have liked to hear more of the trombonist.

3. First of all, I love any ensemble sound that makes you work to identify the instruments involved. Very cool sonority at the beginning. I like the way the pianist plays with the time during his/her solo, and signals the ensemble with a bit of the melody. Good alto solo, although it wasn’t as interesting as the piano. I like this one.

4. I think it’s Anat Cohen, a clarinetist whom I want to like, but don’t, very much. It’s Coltrane’s “Lonnie’s Lament,” and it’s way too pretty for me. Even the more intense sections don’t work for me – it just doesn’t have any fire.

5. I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to this kind of Latin jazz, but I like this, particularly the trumpet (or is it flugelhorn?) solo. No idea who it is.

6. Well, I like the accordion, in spite of all the accordion jokes I make. And this is very accomplished – excellent guitarist and trumpeter. I just don’t have any desire to hear it again.

7. “Filles de Kilimanjaro,” but once again, no idea who it is. And once again, I wish it went somewhere else. It’s probably partially the nature of the piece, but it was awfully laid-back. Good enough, but I wanted more.

8. Okay, this is pretty cool. I wouldn’t have thought it would work – this Beatles song doesn’t seem like it would lend itself to free-ish jazz improvisation. But this is really nice. Again, it doesn’t really work up a head of steam. But I like it, for what it is.

9. A bunch of familiar-sounding players, although not familiar enough for me hazard a guess, except that the first guitar soloist sounds like John Scofield to me. Good playing all around; I enjoyed it, although it didn’t have that extra something to make it really memorable.

10. Again, everyone sounds vaguely familiar. I like the tenor player – he plays with some intensity and gets beyond the amiable swing the piece generally has. I’m guessing that it’s the alto player’s date, but I don’t know who it is.

11. This would probably have been a lot of fun to hear in a bar. On record, well, I never thought I would hear such a polite version of this rock anthem. (Or anthems - there's some Santana in there in addition to Deep Purple, isn't there?)

Again, I wish I had more to say. This was good music, but a lot of it didn't really speak to me. I'm not sure I'll be able to participate with disc 2 - I'm leaving town, and two discs are kind of a lot for a blindfold test, in my opinion. Thanks for this one, though.

[king ubu]

Reading all your guesses it becomes obvious to mee how bad I got at recognizing tunes... I was much better at this some years back, but I guess having stopped playing (even if just for my own pleasure) makes a change in that. I love Trane's "Crescent", hence I should have gotten "Lonnie's Lament", and even more so I should have gotten "Filles"!