BFT #86 Discussion

[jeffcrom]

This is a very interesting BFT. There was nothing that I really disliked, although only a few tracks got to me enough to want to explore further. Even though it's getting late in the month, I haven't looked at this thread yet, although as soon as I post this I'm going to see if I can find out what #11 is - it's killing me.

1. Sounds like Abdullah Ibrahim to me. The trumpet player made me nervous until he settled down to play the melody. I’ve listened to this track several times, and I think how the trumpet player strikes me depends on my mood. He’s getting on my nerves this morning. The drummer is outstanding. Mixed feelings about this one.

2. This is pretty interesting – music which limits itself to a small range of gestures for much of its length. It almost gets tedious, but not quite – the musicians expand their palette at just the right time. No idea who it is, but I appreciate the effort to create something beyond just free-jazz blowing.

3. It’s Walt Dickerson and Richard Davis, playing “Divine Gemini,” I think, but it’s a take which is not on my vinyl copy. This is really beautiful; these guys are masters. If you held a gun to my head and forced me to name my favorite bassist, it would probably be Davis. I wish I could remember where I read that he was also Stravinsky’s favorite bassist. Anyway, this is a gorgeous track.

4. Very nice; I thought it was going to be “There is No Greater Love” for a few seconds there. I like the fact that this is all ensemble – no solos. Good interaction here. The clarinetist sounds like Don Byron at times, but only sporadically, so it’s probably not him.

5. More very interesting music. Excellent Rudd-ish trombone, although I don’t think it’s Roswell Rudd. The piece hangs together very well, even with all the changes of mood and texture. I thought of the ICP Orchestra, but I don’t really know who it is.

6. A tribute to one of my heroes. This is Steve Lacy’s composition “Duck,” aka “Swiss Duck,” “Japanese Duck,” and “The New Duck.” I don’t know who’s playing it, but I like it – they are playing “Duck,” not just playing free. Excellent.

7. Wow – you found the Buddy Bolden cylinder! Well, it’s a tune associated with him, anyway. Based on the three or so times I’ve played this, I like the bassist better than the trumpeter in this brief performance. Nice enough, in any case.

8. Early 1970’s atmosphere. Very nice, for what it is; I just don’t know what it is. Good players using a lot of restraint.

9. Not the usual kind of thing I listen to, but again, very nice for what it is. The guitarist (if that’s a guitar) reminds me of early John Abercrombie. Beyond that, I have nothing intelligent to say about this.

10. Sounds like Paul Motian on drums, and like the general feel of one of his albums, but I don’t recognize anyone except Motian (if I’m right about him). Thoughtful playing with good listening going on, but at about this point in the BFT I found myself wishing for something to swing hard.

11. This one drove me crazy. I think it’s a post-modern adaptation of some jazz-age “classical” piece. I thought it sounded like something by James P. Johnson, but going through my James P. records and CDs didn’t provide a match. I then realized that the blues melody is very similar to the first theme of William Grant Still’s Afro-American Symphony, but it’s not quite the same, and the rest of the piece doesn’t seem to be the same. I’m giving up on trying to figure out what it is, but I’m intrigued.

12. I like the original Blind Blake recording. This is an accomplished rendition, but I doubt I would ever play it as long as Blake’s version was available. (Okay, just as was writing that last sentence, the piano played some really cool stuff in the last few choruses. It’s worth the trip just for that passage.)

13. Jeez – how cliché – a jazz French hornist playing a reggae-flavored version of “Happy Trails.” That’s so overdone. Seriously, this is pretty cool. Great horn player – uses the full range of the horn. Very creative, and a fun way to end a BFT.

Thanks for the interesting BFT. I feel like I know you better now.

[NIS]

Ah...I think I've been missing something...I think I must have downloaded a faulty version of the last track, because all I could hear was a 3 second snippet of brass plus laughter! I hope I would have recognised a French Horn, since I used to (attempt to) play one

That's weird, it should be five minutes, something. At the risk of asking the obvious, did you try the other download link?

[NIS]

This is a very interesting BFT. There was nothing that I really disliked, although only a few tracks got to me enough to want to explore further. Even though it's getting late in the month, I haven't looked at this thread yet, although as soon as I post this I'm going to see if I can find out what #11 is - it's killing me.

I had this almost done once and somehow thick fingered the keyboard and deleted it. So here goes nothing again.

1. Sounds like Abdullah Ibrahim to me. The trumpet player made me nervous until he settled down to play the melody. I’ve listened to this track several times, and I think how the trumpet player strikes me depends on my mood. He’s getting on my nerves this morning. The drummer is outstanding. Mixed feelings about this one.

Almost everyone has mentioned Abdullah Ibrahim. It isn't Ibrahim if I haven't said that. I don't know if there is an influence. Maybe we will find out. The drummer and a couple of good reviews is actually why I got this CD but I found that I really like the whole quartet.

2. This is pretty interesting – music which limits itself to a small range of gestures for much of its length. It almost gets tedious, but not quite – the musicians expand their palette at just the right time. No idea who it is, but I appreciate the effort to create something beyond just free-jazz blowing.

3. It’s Walt Dickerson and Richard Davis, playing “Divine Gemini,” I think, but it’s a take which is not on my vinyl copy. This is really beautiful; these guys are masters. If you held a gun to my head and forced me to name my favorite bassist, it would probably be Davis. I wish I could remember where I read that he was also Stravinsky’s favorite bassist. Anyway, this is a gorgeous track.

Your LP must be "Divine Gemini" also. This is neither here nor there but my copy of that LP has a nasty background hiss and I don't know why I never took it back. I really digress. I have been really happy to see that everyone knows and likes Walt Dickerson.

4. Very nice; I thought it was going to be “There is No Greater Love” for a few seconds there. I like the fact that this is all ensemble – no solos. Good interaction here. The clarinetist sounds like Don Byron at times, but only sporadically, so it’s probably not him.

Not Don Byron.

5. More very interesting music. Excellent Rudd-ish trombone, although I don’t think it’s Roswell Rudd. The piece hangs together very well, even with all the changes of mood and texture. I thought of the ICP Orchestra, but I don’t really know who it is.

6. A tribute to one of my heroes. This is Steve Lacy’s composition “Duck,” aka “Swiss Duck,” “Japanese Duck,” and “The New Duck.” I don’t know who’s playing it, but I like it – they are playing “Duck,” not just playing free. Excellent.

I am really impressed that you know this composition from this short take. I am also surprised that with the hints I've thrown out this group hasn't been ID'd.

7. Wow – you found the Buddy Bolden cylinder! Well, it’s a tune associated with him, anyway. Based on the three or so times I’ve played this, I like the bassist better than the trumpeter in this brief performance. Nice enough, in any case.

8. Early 1970’s atmosphere. Very nice, for what it is; I just don’t know what it is. Good players using a lot of restraint.

9. Not the usual kind of thing I listen to, but again, very nice for what it is. The guitarist (if that’s a guitar) reminds me of early John Abercrombie. Beyond that, I have nothing intelligent to say about this.

Well, since Abercrombie is the only one that hasn't been previously identified, you've said alot.

10. Sounds like Paul Motian on drums, and like the general feel of one of his albums, but I don’t recognize anyone except Motian (if I’m right about him). Thoughtful playing with good listening going on, but at about this point in the BFT I found myself wishing for something to swing hard.

I thought someone would recognize Paul Motian. Not that I can pick out musicians blindfold but he does have a voice of his own.

11. This one drove me crazy. I think it’s a post-modern adaptation of some jazz-age “classical” piece. I thought it sounded like something by James P. Johnson, but going through my James P. records and CDs didn’t provide a match. I then realized that the blues melody is very similar to the first theme of William Grant Still’s Afro-American Symphony, but it’s not quite the same, and the rest of the piece doesn’t seem to be the same. I’m giving up on trying to figure out what it is, but I’m intrigued.

Nobody has figured this out and I've been trying to think of a good hint or two. You are of coarse on the right track with the composition. I don't know as much about that music as you do but I think I can safely say that the composer is one of the biggest. I will still try to come up with something better.

12. I like the original Blind Blake recording. This is an accomplished rendition, but I doubt I would ever play it as long as Blake’s version was available. (Okay, just as was writing that last sentence, the piano played some really cool stuff in the last few choruses. It’s worth the trip just for that passage.)

13. Jeez – how cliché – a jazz French hornist playing a reggae-flavored version of “Happy Trails.” That’s so overdone. Seriously, this is pretty cool. Great horn player – uses the full range of the horn. Very creative, and a fun way to end a BFT.

Thanks for the interesting BFT. I feel like I know you better now.

That probably means you won't let your wife anywhere near Nebraska ever again.

I didn't directly respond to every one of your comments because I would have just rehashed what had already been said in some cases. I do appreciate your participation. You always have interesting things to say.

[jeffcrom]

Your LP must be "Divine Gemini" also. This is neither here nor there but my copy of that LP has a nasty background hiss and I don't know why I never took it back. I really digress. I have been really happy to see that everyone knows and likes Walt Dickerson.

My Divine Gemini LP is pretty noisy, too.

That probably means you won't let your wife anywhere near Nebraska ever again.

She's going to her 30th high school reunion in Crete next month - without me! I'm a little bummed out; I wanted to eat a couple of runzas.

I do appreciate your participation. You always have interesting things to say.

Well, thank you, but I didn't feel like I had a whole lot interesting to say. But I enjoyed the BFT, and I hope you have enjoyed presenting it.

Edited May 20, 2011 by jeffcrom

[Alexander Hawkins]

So track 6 - I'm away from my audio at the moment, so it's sort of from memory: but could it be from the Clusone guys? Rara Avis?

[NIS]

Your LP must be "Divine Gemini" also. This is neither here nor there but my copy of that LP has a nasty background hiss and I don't know why I never took it back. I really digress. I have been really happy to see that everyone knows and likes Walt Dickerson.

My Divine Gemini LP is pretty noisy, too.

That probably means you won't let your wife anywhere near Nebraska ever again.

She's going to her 30th high school reunion in Crete next month - without me! I'm a little bummed out; I wanted to eat a couple of runzas.

I do appreciate your participation. You always have interesting things to say.

Well, thank you, but I didn't feel like I had a whole lot interesting to say. But I enjoyed the BFT, and I hope you have enjoyed presenting it.

I have enjoyed this "excercise in self-indulgence" on many different levels. I've found out some things about my record collection, like I'm apparently a fan of the brass instruments and a large percentage of my albums are on European labels. Most of all, I have confirmed that I am in way over my head with you guys on the forum. The comments have been really great.

They used to sell those runzas frozen, by the way. Maybe she can figure a way to get some back to you.

So track 6 - I'm away from my audio at the moment, so it's sort of from memory: but could it be from the Clusone guys? Rara Avis?

Correct ID. Love that CD.

I may have overdone the Dutch thing (and Michael Moore/Han Bennink) a little but I am really attracted to the music they make and projects they are involved with.

Edited May 20, 2011 by NIS

[Alexander Hawkins]

I don't think either of those guys, or indeed the Dutch thing, could be overdone

FWIW - one of my absolute favorites in the 'not all SA musicians on board' South African vein is Curtis Clark's 'Letter to South Africa'. Louis Moholo-Moholo on drums, Ernst Reijsiger, others...John Tchicai sounding spectacular...

[Hot Ptah]

I have enjoyed this "excercise in self-indulgence" on many different levels. I've found out some things about my record collection, like I'm apparently a fan of the brass instruments and a large percentage of my albums are on European labels. Most of all, I have confirmed that I am in way over my head with you guys on the forum. The comments have been really great.

You are not in way over your head with some of the guys on the forum.

Me, for instance. I couldn't begin to identify anything, except the Earl Hines/Ry Cooder song.

[NIS]

I don't think either of those guys, or indeed the Dutch thing, could be overdone

FWIW - one of my absolute favorites in the 'not all SA musicians on board' South African vein is Curtis Clark's 'Letter to South Africa'. Louis Moholo-Moholo on drums, Ernst Reijsiger, others...John Tchicai sounding spectacular...

Thanks for the recommendation. I don't know that one, but what a group of musicians. Digressing again, I almost included a track from a CD titled "Goodnight Songs" on the BFT. Tchicai with Charlie Kohlhase and Garrison Fewell. Nice free improvs from a couple of concerts. Mr. Tchicai is in good form on this one too, even vocalizes a little. I will have to check out "Letter to South Africa".

[NIS]

I have enjoyed this "excercise in self-indulgence" on many different levels. I've found out some things about my record collection, like I'm apparently a fan of the brass instruments and a large percentage of my albums are on European labels. Most of all, I have confirmed that I am in way over my head with you guys on the forum. The comments have been really great.

You are not in way over your head with some of the guys on the forum.

Me, for instance. I couldn't begin to identify anything, except the Earl Hines/Ry Cooder song.

Well, you knew "Happy Trails" also, even if it was from Quicksilver Messenger Service.

I am probably older than most of you guys, so the song brings back some childhood memories of Saturday mornings for me.

[Alexander Hawkins]

OK, to drop a hint about track 1...pianist is definitely a big fan of Abdullah Ibrahim...although possibly moreso Chris McGregor. Nice call Spontooneous!

The drummer is simply one of my favorites, anywhere...for those with an interest in jazz and African takes on it, he has produced two I think really spectacular takes on West African traditions in recent years. The cornet player on this track plays on both, in fact. And, I think it's relevant to note cornet - he's passionate about this detail(!) I think the Harry Beckett mention is really perceptive, although it's not him, and I don't think that will help you pinpoint the guy...Don Cherry similarly perceptive...

[NIS]

OK, to drop a hint about track 1...pianist is definitely a big fan of Abdullah Ibrahim...although possibly moreso Chris McGregor. Nice call Spontooneous!

The drummer is simply one of my favorites, anywhere...for those with an interest in jazz and African takes on it, he has produced two I think really spectacular takes on West African traditions in recent years. The cornet player on this track plays on both, in fact. And, I think it's relevant to note cornet - he's passionate about this detail(!) I think the Harry Beckett mention is really perceptive, although it's not him, and I don't think that will help you pinpoint the guy...Don Cherry similarly perceptive...

Thanks for some more great comments.

I know the drummer's albums that you mention, I almost used a cut from one of them on the BFT. For my taste, the most current of them and the albums that the first two tracks of this BFT represent are the best new releases I've heard in the last 4 or 5 years.

[NIS]

So, I've been trying to think of some good hints for track #11. Since I can't seem to do that, here are some less than good hints.

It is the piano players album. The horn players and drummer are German, the piano player's home base Germany and the guitarist is English. About half of the cuts were composed by an early jazz/blues great. This group with a different guitar player and adding the trumpeter from track #7 have a another album of music by another early great. How is that for a bunch of convoluted crap. My wife has to deal with this lodgic on a daily basis.

[NIS]

About time to cut bait on this one. I am working on identifications and will try to post them by Sunday.

Thanks to all of you.

[Joe]

So, I've been trying to think of some good hints for track #11. Since I can't seem to do that, here are some less than good hints.

It is the piano players album. The horn players and drummer are German, the piano player's home base Germany and the guitarist is English. About half of the cuts were composed by an early jazz/blues great. This group with a different guitar player and adding the trumpeter from track #7 have a another album of music by another early great. How is that for a bunch of convoluted crap. My wife has to deal with this lodgic on a daily basis.

Django Bates?

[NIS]

So, I've been trying to think of some good hints for track #11. Since I can't seem to do that, here are some less than good hints.

It is the piano players album. The horn players and drummer are German, the piano player's home base Germany and the guitarist is English. About half of the cuts were composed by an early jazz/blues great. This group with a different guitar player and adding the trumpeter from track #7 have a another album of music by another early great. How is that for a bunch of convoluted crap. My wife has to deal with this lodgic on a daily basis.

Django Bates?

No Django Bates. I fear that I didn't give you much to go on, sorry Joe.

On the other hand, I kind of thought somebody would pick up on Alexander Hawkins' hint for track 1. Atleast for the piano player.

[Joe]

Well, whatever the case, looking forward to the reveal on this one. Thanks again for some intriguing and enjoyable listening.

[Hot Ptah]

Well, whatever the case, looking forward to the reveal on this one. Thanks again for some intriguing and enjoyable listening.

I second that emotion.

[Alexander Hawkins]

So, I've been trying to think of some good hints for track #11. Since I can't seem to do that, here are some less than good hints.

It is the piano players album. The horn players and drummer are German, the piano player's home base Germany and the guitarist is English. About half of the cuts were composed by an early jazz/blues great. This group with a different guitar player and adding the trumpeter from track #7 have a another album of music by another early great. How is that for a bunch of convoluted crap. My wife has to deal with this lodgic on a daily basis.

Django Bates?

No Django Bates. I fear that I didn't give you much to go on, sorry Joe.

On the other hand, I kind of thought somebody would pick up on Alexander Hawkins' hint for track 1. Atleast for the piano player.

FWIW (not terribly much, I suspect) - I think Django is based in Copenhagen

This is bugging me now - the English guitarist...I can't think who it could be...I'm going to kick myself...and I feel like the horn players should be a bit more obvious too...where is the pianist from?

[NIS]

So, I've been trying to think of some good hints for track #11. Since I can't seem to do that, here are some less than good hints.

It is the piano players album. The horn players and drummer are German, the piano player's home base Germany and the guitarist is English. About half of the cuts were composed by an early jazz/blues great. This group with a different guitar player and adding the trumpeter from track #7 have a another album of music by another early great. How is that for a bunch of convoluted crap. My wife has to deal with this lodgic on a daily basis.

Django Bates?

No Django Bates. I fear that I didn't give you much to go on, sorry Joe.

On the other hand, I kind of thought somebody would pick up on Alexander Hawkins' hint for track 1. Atleast for the piano player.

FWIW (not terribly much, I suspect) - I think Django is based in Copenhagen

This is bugging me now - the English guitarist...I can't think who it could be...I'm going to kick myself...and I feel like the horn players should be a bit more obvious too...where is the pianist from?

This should really narrow it down, but since I'm posting answers tomorrow, the pianist is originally from Japan.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Aki Takase?

Which means that track 7 is from this I guess...

So that's Rudi Mahall on clarinet, and Paul Lovens on drums...and Dr Chadbourne on the guitar (although Eugene is American I think...)?

Nils Wogram on trombone...

[NIS]

Aki Takase?

Which means that track 7 is from this I guess...

So that's Rudi Mahall on clarinet, and Paul Lovens on drums...and Dr Chadbourne on the guitar (although Eugene is American I think...)?

Nils Wogram on trombone...

You got it all right except Eugene Chadbourne. He was on the other CD I alluded to. You are pretty good at this game though.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Oops, yes of course...strangely, I was going to say Fred Frith at an earlier stage...more a hunch than anything, as I'm not too familiar with his playing, though!

[tkeith]

Apologies for being so late on this one. Life has been eating me up, but I'm bound and determined to catch up! As usual, no peakies. I "listened" to this once through during a power nap back when it was active.

Track 1

First instinct says Hugh Ragin. I was leaning Abdullah Ibrahim during the piano intro, but that definitely sounds like Hugh's technique. Now I'm leaning maybe towards one of the other David Murray guys... seems a bit loose for Hugh, unless it's very early. Bobby Bradford, maybe? Any way you slice it, I'm loving it.

Track 2

To my ear, this lacks what I loved about the first cut. It's too deliberate... hell, it just doesn't SWING!

Track 3

Needle drop and vibes -- am I back in High School!? (fond memories)

That's definitely Walt Dickerson. I think that's the title cut from Divine Gemini

Track 4

Not sure, but it's very pleasant.

Track 5

This is nice. Is this maybe one of those strange Roswell recordings? Almost doesn't sound irreverent enough to be Roswell.

Track 6

I'm not crazy about this. Crazy technique, but I'm not sure it says anything.

Track 7

No idea who it is, but it sounds like a modern guy playing in that older style to me. As such it's missing a bit of the feel it's shooting for. Still a fun ride, though.

Track 8

Star Trek! Oh, wait... no. I dig that bass. It's interesting. It doesn't swing, but unapologetically so. This is what I *want* to hear when someone plays me Weather Report. I'm intrigued. Electronics are a bit much at times, but overall me likey!

Track 9

No clue. I'm on the fence on this one. I like it, but there is similar stuff I like better and would go to first.

Track 10

I wasn't crazy about the guitar, but LOVE the acoustic bass. I can't tell if I like the horn player for his raw edge or if I dislike him for his lack of professional technique. He sort of falls into that Jemeel Moondoc (whom I LOVE) category of a guy with edge but not a lot of polish. I don't get the same edge that I get from JM, though.

Track 11

Hmmm. Reminiscent of some of Ray Anderson's projects, but the bone is not in-your-face enough. I like the overall feel, though. Not sure about the change in the middle, but it's maintaining my interest.

Track 12

No clue. Not a style I dig, though.

Track 13

I like this a lot. As much as I like the bone players who venture into freak altissimo, I like this guy for NOT doing that. It stays mostly in the pocket and does so with great effect. Nice!