BFT #102 discussion thread

[John Tapscott]

Bill: # 13 - OK then, Alvin G! You know, in the Zoot and Al days I find them surprisngly hard to tell apart sometimes. Later on in their careers, it was easier to tell them apart.

Can you give a day or two Bill. I'd like to have another go at the ones I didn't get.

Edited September 15, 2012 by John Tapscott

[BillF]

Bill: # 13 - OK then, Alvin G! You know, in the Zoot and Al days I find them surprisngly hard to tell apart sometimes. Later on in their careers, it was easier to tell them apart.

Can you give a day or two Bill. I'd like to have another go at the ones I didn't get.

You've got a couple of weeks. I don't post the reveal till 1st Oct.

Edited September 15, 2012 by BillF

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Delighted to hear fulsome praise for these two, who aren't the most loved in these parts.

Bill, fulsome means

"cloying or causing surfeit; nauseous; offensive; gross; rank; disgustingly fawning" according to my dictionary.

Now, I'M glad to hear such prasie for Eric Alexander, but I wouldn't think you would be

MG

[BillF]

Delighted to hear fulsome praise for these two, who aren't the most loved in these parts.

Bill, fulsome means

"cloying or causing surfeit; nauseous; offensive; gross; rank; disgustingly fawning" according to my dictionary.

Now, I'M glad to hear such prasie for Eric Alexander, but I wouldn't think you would be

MG

Your dictionary's too subtle. Mine gives "abundant, plentiful, full". Where does that leave Eric?

[tkeith]

Okay, finally got around to it (Septembers suck for me!). One listen, no peaks. This was an interesting test for me. A lot of familiar sounding stuff, but nothing that I nailed. A couple of things I'm guessing I have and don't realize it. One thing these tests always accomplish is make me realize just how vast available field of documented music is (and how little of it I've actually heard!). Thanks for workout.

Track 1 - Very modern style, but very much acknowledging the Tristano school. Unfortunately, there is little in the tenor player's sound or approach to distinguish him or her to my ear.

Track 2 - Just Friends. Not my bag, but a very interesting arrangement. Mad tight! I like the bass solo in terms of ideas, but I wish he had a thicker tone. No idea who this is, but my guess is it's a working band to be this tight.

Track 3 - Hmmm... Live! Older, buzzy-style trumpet sound. It's somebody I've heard (I think in other BFTs), but that style always makes me think of Ruby Braff. I don't believe that's who it is here, though. I'll lay good money it's an older player, though, and not a younger person playing that style; there's too much truth in the tone for that.

Track 4 - Again, mad chops. It's more traditional preference, but it reminds me of the way Benny Golson would approach this kind of tune. There is a uniqueness in the tone, but I can't claim to know who it is. I guess that it's a tweener; not a legend like Golson, but not a real young guy, either. Somebody on par with Eric Alexander, but I'd guess a shade older.

Track 5 - Very bandy. It's not unpleasant, it just isn't grabbing me. The arrangement is rather unspectacular, which would not be an issue, but it doesn't really swing, either. Hmmm... maybe I just took a misery pill without realizing it, because I'm really disliking the sound of that tenor, too. Trumpet interlude at about 1:55 is nice. I'm warming up to the tenor ideas, but that tone... it seems to have the inward focus of Hank Mobley, but with the opposite effect. Could this be Joe Lovano? This one isn't reaching me.

Track 6 - Huh, this one is hitting across the board for me. It reminds me of Cedar Walton's bands of the 70s. Crap! The horns spoiled my mojo! It's got that fun bounce of some of Walton's later compositions. An outside guess on the alto would be Charles McPherson. It doesn't seem to have Charles flawless time, but it could be a more recent recording, so I'll guess him. It's not Cedar, but a very capable pianist from the tradition. Don't recognize the trumpet, but he's not really resonating. The approach is mellow like later Art Farmer, but really doesn't have the same story. Bobby Shew?

Track 7 - More dense band arrangements. It's interesting to hear that Kentonian density in a modern setting. The arrangement on the head didn't wow me, but now that we're into it, I love what they're doing behind the soloist. Strong 'bone solo. I like the tenor solo, but I detect nothing unique about the player. Coltrane-inspired tenor #32491?

Track 8 - I'm am ALL in, here. Swings it's ever-lovin' ass off, and that's enough, sometimes. Love it all. Not particularly sure who I'm hearing, but both tenor and trumpet sound familiar. No clue on the bari.

Track 9 - Well, that's royalty. Paul Gonzalves on tenor and, like Robert Klein, I can't stop my leg. The drummer is a bitch! Sounds like Philly Joe. That sounds like Clark Terry to me on trumpet, but it's pretty fiery... I'll stay with that guess, but this is BURNIN'. Some of those chords are Ellington-esque, but I think it's an homage, because the general feel of the piano seems more like Wynton Kelly to me. Man, I NEED this. Throw out all the textbooks and practice room nonsense, THIS is what Jazz is, kids!

Track 10 - This has a fun feel to me. Similar to some of the TV themes of the 60s. The feel is similar to Maynard's bands of that era as it gets going, but that trumpet has far too much taste to be MF. I like this.

Track 11 - Good, tight, straight ahead Jazz. Very much like the Jazztet, but not them. This is a band I should know, particularly that trumpet, but I can't commit.

Track 12 - Left channel tenor needs to forget the post-Coltrane stuff. This is burning, but lay off the rehashed Coltrane-isms, dude. I'm guessing a Berklee guy because he has that Billy Pierce sound, but doesn't seem as personal as BP to me. I like his playing, I just want to hear more of the individual. Could even be Eric Alexander the way he navigates the changes, but at this pace, I'm losing the sense of this player and just hearing the practice room. This is a long-standing issue for me with ALL modern players. Right channel tenor doesn't seem quite as accomplished in terms of technique, and though out of the same sort of schooling, seems more in touch with the source of the tradition. Maybe Josh Redman? A very clean sound, lots of proficiency, but to my ear, this guy is closer to what I hear as Jazz. The recording is uber compressed, which does not help this process of identification. Gah! Engineers!!!!! It's clearly a modern group of players. For me, it's the drummer that makes this succeed. The rest of the rhythm section strikes me as just kind of there. Both these bastards can play! When they trade fours, the differences in their sounds compliment one another nicely. I'm almost convinced that the left channel is Alexander, now. The right channel reminds me a lot of Ricky Ford, but a lot cleaner. I should probably know the tune, but don't. Very nice head.

Track 13 - The drums set this up to be more of a burner, but it settles in to that west coast big band thing. It's nice, just didn't go where I figured it was going. Tone says Kamuca to me. Sick chops, but not my genre of choice. I side with Horace Silver on this stuff.

Track 14 - Brubeckian take on All The Things You Are. I like the idea, but that piano is making me a little nuts. This is clearly a private stock recording, so I want to be careful here. If this were multi-tracked, I'd be muting the piano track; it just isn't working. The right-hand is doing some nice stuff. The left-hand is completely off-putting (maybe it's the way the drums are being so rigid, I dunno). Nope... it's the chording. Didn't make it all the way through.

[tkeith]

5. A very unusual, hollow sound from this tenor player, who plays with a lot of soul. It actually sounds a little like Von Freeman to me, but I don’t know of any recordings he made with an ensemble of this size. Whoever it is, it’s very individual and beautiful.

6. It’s all about programming. This is excellent music, but it suffers in contrast to track five. The soloist there was so individual that these musicians seem more anonymous. It’s good, though.

Interesting that I had the polar opposite take on these two tunes, Jeff.

14 – Still West Coasting. The piano pounding is positively Brubeckian. The trumpet is probably some lesser-known, with a nice attack, a good compromise between Chet and Brownie. No guess, but it's fun.

Outstanding! And here I was thinking I'd created a new adjective!!!!

After reading the first couple of comments, I was happy to see someone throw Hines' name out there. I like him a lot, but this didn't seem to hit me like him, but I can see where his name would come up. Ugh... at work, and this isn't making sense. I don't know if Hines was a guess, but after reading several comments, the thought of Fatha Hines on an off day came to mind.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Thom Keith

[BillF]

Okay, finally got around to it (Septembers suck for me!). One listen, no peaks. This was an interesting test for me. A lot of familiar sounding stuff, but nothing that I nailed. A couple of things I'm guessing I have and don't realize it. One thing these tests always accomplish is make me realize just how vast available field of documented music is (and how little of it I've actually heard!). Thanks for workout.

Track 1 - Very modern style, but very much acknowledging the Tristano school. Unfortunately, there is little in the tenor player's sound or approach to distinguish him or her to my ear.

No Tristano links here, as far as I'm aware

Track 2 - Just Friends. Not my bag, but a very interesting arrangement. Mad tight! I like the bass solo in terms of ideas, but I wish he had a thicker tone. No idea who this is, but my guess is it's a working band to be this tight.

Yes, it was a working band - I saw them! - and "Just Friends", of course.

Track 3 - Hmmm... Live! Older, buzzy-style trumpet sound. It's somebody I've heard (I think in other BFTs), but that style always makes me think of Ruby Braff. I don't believe that's who it is here, though. I'll lay good money it's an older player, though, and not a younger person playing that style; there's too much truth in the tone for that.

Yes, an older player - a giant! Ruby will have loved his playing.

Track 4 - Again, mad chops. It's more traditional preference, but it reminds me of the way Benny Golson would approach this kind of tune. There is a uniqueness in the tone, but I can't claim to know who it is. I guess that it's a tweener; not a legend like Golson, but not a real young guy, either. Somebody on par with Eric Alexander, but I'd guess a shade older.

Yes, indeed. Born 33 years before Eric and died at the age of 38.

Track 5 - Very bandy. It's not unpleasant, it just isn't grabbing me. The arrangement is rather unspectacular, which would not be an issue, but it doesn't really swing, either. Hmmm... maybe I just took a misery pill without realizing it, because I'm really disliking the sound of that tenor, too. Trumpet interlude at about 1:55 is nice. I'm warming up to the tenor ideas, but that tone... it seems to have the inward focus of Hank Mobley, but with the opposite effect. Could this be Joe Lovano? This one isn't reaching me.

Yes, this is Joe Lovano.

Track 6 - Huh, this one is hitting across the board for me. It reminds me of Cedar Walton's bands of the 70s. Crap! The horns spoiled my mojo! It's got that fun bounce of some of Walton's later compositions. An outside guess on the alto would be Charles McPherson. It doesn't seem to have Charles flawless time, but it could be a more recent recording, so I'll guess him. It's not Cedar, but a very capable pianist from the tradition. Don't recognize the trumpet, but he's not really resonating. The approach is mellow like later Art Farmer, but really doesn't have the same story. Bobby Shew?

Some intelligent guesswork here. Altoist a Bird devotee like Chas. McPherson. "Not Cedar, but a very capable pianist from the tradition" exactly sums it up. And Art and Bobby wouldn't be alien where the trumpeter is concerned.

Track 7 - More dense band arrangements. It's interesting to hear that Kentonian density in a modern setting. The arrangement on the head didn't wow me, but now that we're into it, I love what they're doing behind the soloist. Strong 'bone solo. I like the tenor solo, but I detect nothing unique about the player. Coltrane-inspired tenor #32491?

Track 8 - I'm am ALL in, here. Swings it's ever-lovin' ass off, and that's enough, sometimes. Love it all. Not particularly sure who I'm hearing, but both tenor and trumpet sound familiar. No clue on the bari.

Track 9 - Well, that's royalty. Paul Gonzalves on tenor and, like Robert Klein, I can't stop my leg. The drummer is a bitch! Sounds like Philly Joe. That sounds like Clark Terry to me on trumpet, but it's pretty fiery... I'll stay with that guess, but this is BURNIN'. Some of those chords are Ellington-esque, but I think it's an homage, because the general feel of the piano seems more like Wynton Kelly to me. Man, I NEED this. Throw out all the textbooks and practice room nonsense, THIS is what Jazz is, kids!

Yes, Paul Gonsalves and I agree it's burnin'. Yes, it's Wynton Kelly and yes, this trumpeter and Clark have both listened to Dizzy.

Track 10 - This has a fun feel to me. Similar to some of the TV themes of the 60s. The feel is similar to Maynard's bands of that era as it gets going, but that trumpet has far too much taste to be MF. I like this.

Track 11 - Good, tight, straight ahead Jazz. Very much like the Jazztet, but not them. This is a band I should know, particularly that trumpet, but I can't commit.

Track 12 - Left channel tenor needs to forget the post-Coltrane stuff. This is burning, but lay off the rehashed Coltrane-isms, dude. I'm guessing a Berklee guy because he has that Billy Pierce sound, but doesn't seem as personal as BP to me. I like his playing, I just want to hear more of the individual. Could even be Eric Alexander the way he navigates the changes, but at this pace, I'm losing the sense of this player and just hearing the practice room. This is a long-standing issue for me with ALL modern players. Right channel tenor doesn't seem quite as accomplished in terms of technique, and though out of the same sort of schooling, seems more in touch with the source of the tradition. Maybe Josh Redman? A very clean sound, lots of proficiency, but to my ear, this guy is closer to what I hear as Jazz. The recording is uber compressed, which does not help this process of identification. Gah! Engineers!!!!! It's clearly a modern group of players. For me, it's the drummer that makes this succeed. The rest of the rhythm section strikes me as just kind of there. Both these bastards can play! When they trade fours, the differences in their sounds compliment one another nicely. I'm almost convinced that the left channel is Alexander, now. The right channel reminds me a lot of Ricky Ford, but a lot cleaner. I should probably know the tune, but don't. Very nice head.

Yes, it's Eric Alexander. I like your comment on engineers. When I heard Eric live for the first time in March, I told him I was pleased he sounded the same as on the records. "Well, it's the same thing," he replied. "You know what they can do in the studio," I said. "What I sound like on record is what I sound like live. The same thing," he insisted.

Track 13 - The drums set this up to be more of a burner, but it settles in to that west coast big band thing. It's nice, just didn't go where I figured it was going. Tone says Kamuca to me. Sick chops, but not my genre of choice. I side with Horace Silver on this stuff.

Not Kamuca - another son of Lester.

Track 14 - Brubeckian take on All The Things You Are. I like the idea, but that piano is making me a little nuts. This is clearly a private stock recording, so I want to be careful here. If this were multi-tracked, I'd be muting the piano track; it just isn't working. The right-hand is doing some nice stuff. The left-hand is completely off-putting (maybe it's the way the drums are being so rigid, I dunno). Nope... it's the chording. Didn't make it all the way through.

As you note below, you're not the first to hear Brubeck here, but this is pretty different piano from his, as soon will be revealed.