JSngry Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 (edited) Don't get me wrong - I don't think it sounds BAD. It doesn't, not at all. All I'm saying is that THIS one doesn't sound like a 1965 Blue Note. It's got the "Lion factor" removed from the sound, if you know what I mean (and for those who don't, it's easy - Lion personally supervised/directed the mixing and mastering of his releases, and is probably the real source of the "Blue Note Sound" audiowise). That's cool, I really AM happy to finally have this album, and I'll buy more RVGs when they have extra material and/or when my LP is in less than adequate condition. For something like GOING WEST, though, if I want/need a CD copy, I think I'll make an LP burn now that I got a decent turntable. It'll save me money AND the risk of discombobulation! If most of the RVGs are as "different" sounding as this one is (and I really have nothing to go by to say if they are or not, so I have no preset opinion), then I understand the "controversy" that surrounds them in some quarters. By this stage of the game, Lion & Rudy had gotten their shit sounding DAMN fine, so it's not like some of those Verve things that sound all muddy on LP and genuinely need "fixing". Getting it into the digital realm the way it originally sounded would do just dandy in most instances. You can't improve on perfection, you can only change it. Not that ALL BNs were "perfect" sounding, but most of them from this era and this genre were. Yeah, I was fortunate to come up in the LP age, and even more fortunate to be aware of all the good stuff on BN and to buy a bunch of the LPs when they were readily (and not so readily) available. So that's the "sound" that I hear with this stuff, and when it's this radically changed, I can't help but notice it. I've got no problem with the concept of recordings as raw materials to be manipulated at will, from something as simple as this remastering to something altogether different as all the various DJ remixes. It's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. And for those who never/hardly ever heard the originals, hey, it's FAR better to have this than nothing, no question. All I'm saying is that this is my first real exposure to the RVG series, and audiowise, this is NOT the "real" "Blue Note Sound", no way! Let me rephrase that - this is not the ORIGINAL "Blue Note Sound". What is "real" to the individual is what they know, and if this is what they know, hey, it's as real to them as what I know is to me. Besides, it's going to be real for the forseeable future, since what's done is done. Of course, that's really not that big of a deal in the big picture. It's the music that is the true essence of that sound, not how it was recorded/remastered/etc, and whatever it takes to get that music available is a good thing. I'd rather hear CAPE VERDIAN BLUES with anachronistic reverb and disembodied hi-hats than not hear it at all, unquestionably! However, the next time I hear the old folks talk about how food doesn't taste like it used to, I'll not automatically assume that they're getting senile or that their tastebuds are shot! Edited April 6, 2004 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 (edited) Okay, one point: a better comparison to do would be with the Taylor, with which you've lived on lp for some time. You haven't had the Verdean one before right? The RVG might sound closer to the lp than you THINK it does. I've noticed that RVG/Lion had a different sort of sound for Silver than say Mobley or Green or Patton. To me this RVG shares characteristics to the Silver Blue Note sound on lps that I have heard. And from my limited experience, the RVGs sound closer to mono Blue Note lps than stereo ones. . . just what my senses tell me when I've been able to hear mono lps like Rough and Ready and Hubcap. Another point: digital and lps are two different animals. Hell, I don't think that lp burns of lps sound exactly like the lp. To me it's the material I need, I've been buying digital for so long because it is the available source for me, I've grown accustomed to the fact that Columbia cds of Miles don't sound like the lps did, and the Sony cds don't sound like the Columbia cds, and the Verve cds don't sound like the lps, and the Muse cds don't sound like the lps, and. . . well, I don't listen to lps a lot or nearly at all any longer, and I've made my ears hear the sound as it is on cd. . . . And I think that most all the RVGs, and many of the Japanese RVGs, sound really good for cds. Better than some other options for the same material. So. . . You're right. I'm right. Jazzhound may be right. Hey, and several of us may be left of center. Edited April 6, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 However, the next time I hear the old folks talk about how food doesn't taste like it used to, I'll not automatically assume that they're getting senile or that their tastebuds are shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 (edited) Well, CVB is the only 60s/70s Horace BN I don't have on a fairly clean LP (as far as I know -hell, I thought I had it! ), so unless Rudy & Alfred did something really different with it back then, I dunno... You know, it's not just this one. I mean, Belden's habit of de-reverbing some sessions REALLY unsettles me on first listen too. I know why he does it, to remove the "cloud" and to give greater detail to the specifics of the instruments and the room sound, but I gotta tell you, it's a HUGE for me the first few times through a lot of times. I'm not even sure if it's the same record sometimes! It all comes down to "familiarity", I suppose, and for every THE INDIVIDUALISM OF GIL EVANS, where the LP hid more than it revealed, there's something like this, where I hear things that I know weren't there in the first place (ok, not having this specific LP, things that I highly doubt were there in the first place). It's not really a complaint, it's just a.... Ok - it IS a complaint. But it's not one that I expect to get much (if any) sympathy for, and it's one that I'm perfectly willing to admit is entirely personal and not relevant to the world at large. Nobody likes it when somebody else buys the house you grew in and turns your old room into a sewing area replete with lace curtains and shit, but whatcha' gonna do about it, buy it back from them and put all the crap back up on the walls? Nah... Edited April 6, 2004 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Yes, I understand, and I think if I were buying fewer cds and were rebuying classic rock albums I was very familiar with I would be feeling very much the same way. The Miles and Ellington stuff I have on cd a lot of it I had on lp and I had to adapt. . . and did. . . had to adjust my expectations (my whole experience in Texas for 24 years has been one of adjusting my expectations!) and did. . . . So I'm not really arguing with you I guess. In about 1980 I moved away from lps as a main source and to cassette tapes, and then to cds, so my lp experience with a lot that I listen to on cd is limited and not bothering me too much that it is different. Personally I'd rather have all the master tapes and one of the reel to reels from the Englewoods Cliff studio, one that was put away about 1966 or so for storage. To hell with the Lion sound, I want the sound recorded from the studio, I'll mix it myself. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Muse cds don't sound like the lps... Be thankful for small favors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Believe me, I'm grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Personally I'd rather have all the master tapes and one of the reel to reels from the Englewoods Cliff studio, one that was put away about 1966 or so for storage. Have you ever experimented with recording audio onto videotape at high speed? FRIGHTENINGLY good sound with the right equipment, especially for recording a live gig. Too bad it's totally impractical in every regard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Yes, audio on video tape sounds quite good, I haven't experimented with high speed, but it sounds very good. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Many Bay Area Deadheads starting recording the band w/ VHS rigs in the mid-80s; they had some really sweet results in pre-digital days. What was it, the width of the tape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.