BruceW

I am constantly amazed at what is printed here and how differently it is interpreted. I was talking about only this present team since Kobe got his "wishes." That was not hard to understand from all the previous threads about the spoiled brat and the young team. In deference to your statement, yes, the Lakers as an organization with a past history is a great organization with lots and lots of championship banners. But, that is not the thread here. The thread here is dealing with "this present" team. As you are obviously a Laker fan, you should understand that this team will not represent the caliber of Lakers past. If, by some twist of fate, this team develops these youngsters into a major threat to the title, then so be it, but don't look for it.

Can't resist this either, but San Antonio also showed everyone who the Lakers really are.....

Yeah, what a surprise. Read in the papers where Ben Wallace admitted they took them for granted... "thought it would be a cakewalk." Go Pistons That might have been an early wakeup call. You know (now that you are champs, everyone is gunning for you). B-)

No I am not. I get mistaken for him a lot, but... no. B-) I'm a vibe player in Loma Linda, Calif. and I love the Pistons... and while I loved many of the past Laker teams, eversince they got "sweet little innocent" Kobe (in reality the brash spoiled brat), I cannot say that I am now endeared to the Lakers nor their management, Mitch Kupchek. There seems to be "a bit" of dishonesty with him towards players. (probably gets paid to be the hatchet man). Be cool B-) BruceW

Can't resist this, BUT Utah showed everyone who the Lakers really are.....

Yessir, those Pistons are too too much. Defense is the name of their game and the strength of their fame. Go Pistons 1 - 0

Let me put it this way B-3er, IF and that is a big IF Larry Brown can keep Coleman's attitude in check (which nobody has for what 10-15 years) then he will be an ABSOLUTE positive addition to the team. IF NOT, Coleman can effect a team so negatively that it will destroy the team efforts. Watch his weight first for clues, if he is a little heavy then he doesn't give a shit. If he is really heavy, then it is hopeless. If he is really trimmed, look for a new Coleman (very doubtful) but let's hope. I haven't even seen him yet this season so I cannot make a judgement as to his weight. I think they play on TV tonight. Anyway, the Pistons are what is happening!! Peace B-) Mr. Vibes

Looks like we got shut off for awhile but we're back..... History, I was born and bred in Detroit..... Yea Pistons.... Pistons forever Derrick Coleman should have been a great player but attitude held him back, still does. I hope Pistons knew what they were doing getting him... I personally think it is a bad mistake, HOWEVER, Pistons should take it all again anyway!! BTW did you know that the Pistons were first the Fort Wayne (Indiana) Pistons??? Peace B-) I needed to add this: If Larry Brown can convince Sheed and Ben to take at least 6 more shots apiece on average, they will be unbeatable. Also keep Sheed inside posting up.

Well, well, well... It looks like.... Lowe did his job! Boston Red Sox Jazz is alive too....

Hey guys, We all know Groove got blacklisted for awhile, but does anybody know what actually happened to cause that drastic action???? How long did it actually last???? Keep making music B-) Bruce

Michael I personally want to thank you for your statements. Waaay tooo many musicians today think that a chart is a "copy of a page from the Real Book." They treat the Real Book like it is the Bible. I personally know a few musicians out here in California that could use a professional tongue lashing because of their attitudes. They are lazy, non professional and "very sloppy" in playing the tunes, they have no arrangements, no endings and "always" fall on the "inept excuse" of "well we like to wing it." I just quit a band because of those attitudes they have. And to top it off, they weren't making any "money" either.Keep up the playing, the music, and the professional approach; I applaud you. B-) Bruce

This is obvious corporate opportunism. Jeannine is in Real Book 2 and for instance, The Very Thought of You is in Real Book 3. Yes, there are THREE books in order to get what you got in ONE book waaaaaay back in JazzzzzzzzzLand times. Then, there is the New Real Book 1, the New Real Book 2, the New Real Book 3; who the hell wants to carry all those books around????? Ooops, excuse me, you were talking about the Hal Leonard Real Book, and I'll be darned, there is a Standards Real Book, when is it going to stop. Times have changed my friend BUT if you have NO books, then at least you are getting a good start. Keep making music B-) Bruce

Michael Amen to that. One reason so many bands are dull or boring is because of the lack of a willingness to rehearse and provide variety, especially "together, close knit, thought out endings." Not on every tune but some of them at least. The audience will know you are a tight band and feel good about paying to see you or giving you that tip money. The audience always remembers the endiing, that's the last thing they hear on any tune. B-) Bruce

Wait no more, I listend to all of those clips a little while ago and was blown away by Groove and his drummer Joe Dukes. Man, that cat was strong. His groove is the greatest and it is a damn shame he got blackballed. This cat should have been as large as Jimmy SMith, well... maybe just a tad less. Jimmy was The Man. (period) Thanks for the link to those clips. I just love the B3 and I hope you guys do not take offense, but I am a vibe player and I adore the Deagan Aurora the same way you guys adore the B3. Keep playing music B-) Bruce

FreeForAll Man, you really know your stuff. I understand exactly what you just described. Its heavy!!! That's why I like this bb. B-) Bruce

Yeah, I think I did say the triad also in my statement. I agree with your statements about extensions, I think that is what started this whole thread. Yes the Bb and Bb7 are both major tonalities. However, in regards to its usage at the beginning of Oleo, Bb implies a maj triad, maj 6, 6/9 or maj7th or maj9th or maj#11th or maj 13 th chord. The Bb7 can imply a I7 chord but that is not what we have been talking about. A I7 is fine if it is indicated by Bb7, but it has not been indicated, a mere Bb was. However, like I said, if the Bb7 has been sounding great, so be it. I really think players' choice has crept in. That's okay, I just feel it is just as wrong to set that in stone also when theory dictates otherwise. Remember this tune was written by a master. Sonny starts his St. Thomas with a C and I have never heard or heard of anyone starting it with a Cdom7. Appreciate any comments. Then again maybe I haven't been around enough. The comment about "risking ridicule" was not mine, I don't know whose it was. I agree about the innovators doing just that. You are right, I do become a little inflexible at times. BUT I love this thread and I appreciate everyone who jumps in and really voices an opinion. Keep making music B-) Bruce

OrganFreak Good to hear back so soon. I haven't seen the grin. There is a <g> appearing at the end of your threads but no pictures or anything. I'm a newbie on this bb and have to learn a lot of the abbreviations etc. Well it is good to know that there was no feelings stepped on. J Lee, I think this particular thread will apply to any tune that has a similar chord in a similar position. That is why I offered the theoretic info. And I think you guys are right in your appllication if the dom7 is used. To me the easy way around that for the soloist is to avoid using a 7th of any kind at that point. A pentatonic or a blues scale both fit well over either chord. The duraction of the chord is so short anyway. What do you think?? B-) Bruce

Well don't get bored, remember SOMEBODY ELSE started this knit picking thread. I was merely clarifying on the theoretical side of that thread or threads. I also paid respect to those of you (including you) that if one chose to use Bbdom7 as the tonic, that was fine. Tell me, why are so many people so sensitive on these threads????? It is just a discussion, right??? I myself appreciate your input that professionally so many players use the dom7 instead of the Bb major theorum. And yes, waaaay back, in Detroit at the Blue Bird Inn I was fortunate (did not know it at the time) to see some of his music. When he wrote Bbdom7 he meant it, and when he wrote Bb he meant a major tonality. FYI B-) Keep playing music Bruce

There can always be arrangements of a tune done in another key, especially when you have singers involved or big bands or even when guys just want to do it in another key. This does not change the home key or "original key" if you will. The original key will always be G. Now this friend who claimed he never heard it in major probably didn't know he was playing it in Eb for his singer, not Cmi - (same key signature) IMHO. Even though this guy "sounded great" as a player, it could be he was slightly mislead and just played it that way eversince. No harm, no foul. B-) Bruce

Hey my man, We probably dealt with the same friend of a friend of his friend who was a friend of a friend of someone else's friend who had a friend of a friend who made these. Yep! BUT they are nice and great references and also solve many arguments. to the others on a Bb meaning Bb6, Bbmaj 7, Bbdom7 i.e Bb dom 7 starting Oleo. IMHO and after looking at all the books including some original writings by Sonny Rollins, a Bb does NOT imply a Bb dom 7. Everywhere you look when a dominant chord is desired or specified it is written Bb dom 7 or a Bb7; same for any dominant chord, A7 etc. A Bb always means a major tonality; Bb69, Bb6, Bb triad, Bb maj 7, Bb maj 7+11, Bb maj 13 +11, etc.... NOT a Bbdom7. A Bbdom 7 will be Bb7 or Bbdom7. (period) Now having said that, of course personal taste has crept into many musicians arrangements and approach. If one chooses to use a Bbdom7 and it works, so be it. BUT THAT IS NOW WHAT Bb by itself means. IMHO and I recognize others opinions. Keep playing jazz guys, but as Milt Jackson said once to one of his famous piano sidemen, "Play it right." B-) Bruce Yeah, and I'm expecting a lot of flack from this and I'm okay with it.

Hey Casanovas347 You must have that disk that is going around with all the books on it....... it is great isn't it?? However, where are these guys getting their information and keys from???? I can understand a singer changing a key to fit her voice range, but the rest of these guys...... Keep playing music B-) Bruce

Just joined forum, it is very nice to know where I can get so much information on vinyl records. Already heard about vinyl.com. Thanks loads. B-) Bruce