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Guest donald petersen

PM Records...

46 posts in this topic

the budget for copying a CD and printing the packaging and mailing the CD for a CD full of music you own would seem to be to be under 5 bucks.

Did I ask anywhere in my post what it "seemed" to you?

I only asked for real information.

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but i am not a professional record producer. i am merely a consumer expressing disgust at the high price PM is selling home-made CDRs for.

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i dont even know what i am writing a budget for. what budget? the CDs are made on demand. the CDs only exist if you ask for them. the budget for copying a CD and printing the packaging and mailing the CD for a CD full of music you own would seem to be to be under 5 bucks.

One thing you really need to understand is the "original cost". Gene worked for Elvin, probably got a good deal for the session and paid Elvin and the sidemen - say $10,000. I don't know the deal but the number is cheap for the "product". He spent another $3000 (we are talking 25 year old dollars) to issue the lp and sold a few - not near enough to recoup the money.

Now you want him to give you the music for minimum wage plus "media" postage?

Grow up.

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I just checked the site and was surprised at how many of these PM LP's I either had or still have in my collection, at least a dozen. Perhaps it was because PM was one of the first labels outside Canada to broadly record Canadian jazz artists (and not just the "stars"). There is some great music here, folks. I highly recommend the PAT LABARBERA disc.

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FWIW, I picked up the Delos CD version of the Slam Stewart & Major Holley record for cheap at Berkshire last week. They still list it for $2.99.

Mike

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Then there is this one on vinyl again but now, they are all available on CD; insn't everything?

PMR-004 "Live" © 1975

John Coltrane Memorial Concert

Recorded September 12, 1971

at Town Hall, New York City

Elvin Jones

Drums

Frank Foster

Tenor and soprano saxophones

Chick Corea

Piano

Gene Perla

Bass

Joe Farrell

Tenor saxphone & Flute

Shinjitu (Keiko Jones) 22:00

Simone (Frank Foster) 23:53

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PM makes at least 10 bucks on each of these CDs

Try a figure more like 3 or 4 dollars.

And anyway, let the guy make a extra dollar or two if he can, for christsakes!

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If you think it's priced too high, don't buy it.

Corollary to the above: if people think it's priced too high, they won't buy it.

Simple as that.

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why is everyone getting on my case. i am merely expressing distaste that PM Records is selling a lesser quality product (have you seen the CD artwork? and they are just CDR burns) for higher than usual prices. that is all...

20 bucks seems like a lot for a domestic and poorly produced CD.

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The asking price for the Jones is $15.

Please write a budget - guess, since you seem to doubt my info.

Artwork cost

Film/transfer cost

proof cost

printing cost (how many do you print at what unit cost?)

ship printing to pressing plant cost

remixing/editing cost

remix/editing proof

mastering cost

mastering proof

shipping master to pp cost

pressing cost

jewel box/assembly/wrap cost

shipping to your warehouse cost

publishing royalty cost

artist royalty cost

Now that you have done that, please bill us for your time facilitating all the above, warehouse space, website cost, etc.

Please give me a unit cost.

Look, the guy just mentioned that $20 seemed a little high for a CD and on that I agreed. We are not takng into account original costs or anything like that just how much does it cost to re-issue the CD and do a minimal run (1,000 copies). If he is burning copies on demand than $20 is still high. OK, now to address Mr. Nessa.

Artwork cost-none, artwork already exists

Film/transfer cost- minimal, do a high resolution scan of the cover if you don't have the original films, I've been told it's better to scan at this point anyway. Total cost $500-1000 to get the whole CD booklet designed including scanning, proofs, transfers etc, etc.

proof cost-see above

printing cost (how many do you print at what unit cost?)- included with the CD run probably a little over $1 a CD if you run 1,000

ship printing to pressing plant cost- minimal like $10

remixing/editing cost- probably no re-mixing done

remix/editing proof- what a CDR please beside no re-mixing probably anyway

mastering cost- these days it can be $300 to $3,000 but lets say he cares a little bit $1,000

mastering proof- included in cost above again a CDR

shipping master to pp cost- shipping master, a CD wow maybe another $10

pressing cost- as above

jewel box/assembly/wrap cost- as above

shipping to your warehouse cost- OK shipping 1,000 CD surface insured, not that much, less than $100

publishing royalty cost- depends on the deal

artist royalty cost- depends on the deal but only after expenses are recouped.

1,000 copies at $20 a pop if somehow he sells out $20,000. Expenses $5,000 maybe. I think he's going to be OK. I know it's not a easy business Mr. Nessa and mostly a labour of love but sometimes, please, give me a break.

Edited by kdd

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They should have set the price to $19.9, and noone would consider them as ridiculously expensive. $20 for a CD is an important psychological barrier ;)

Edited by Claude

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alrighty-to get back to this thread without the stupid crap-

i picked up stone alliance "live in amsterdam" at j & r the other day. it was $14.99 or something, but that's besides the point-

it's pretty good. generally i dislike sax trios, but perla has a fat sound and the compositions are good. when is this from? doesn't say. i would guess 74 or something? i like don alias on a real drum kit. he has a loose style that works for me. especially with jeremy steig.

i also saw a later stone alliance album for sale but it looked to be sort of standard early 80s fusion funk. dunno..

i think i also saw that elvin jones concert disc under chick corea or someones name as "the john coltrane memorial concert" at a store here in new york. looks like the same music but i could be wrong. sketchy.

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FWIW, I picked up the Delos CD version of the Slam Stewart & Major Holley record for cheap at Berkshire last week. They still list it for $2.99.

Mike

I have that one - very nice album, very well recorded! Forgot it originally was a PM production - Perla had good taste as a producer!

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Then there is this one on vinyl again but now, they are all available on CD; insn't everything?

PMR-004 "Live" © 1975

John Coltrane Memorial Concert

Recorded September 12, 1971

at Town Hall, New York City

Elvin Jones

Drums

Frank Foster

Tenor and soprano saxophones

Chick Corea

Piano

Gene Perla

Bass

Joe Farrell

Tenor saxphone & Flute

Shinjitu (Keiko Jones) 22:00

Simone (Frank Foster) 23:53

That one was on CD for a while - at least in Europe - but the sound quality is not thrilling, and it sounds rather like a jam with its long solos. IMHO it is below the quality level of his Blue Notes with similar personnel.

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i think i also saw that elvin jones concert disc under chick corea or someones name as "the john coltrane memorial concert" at a store here in new york. looks like the same music but i could be wrong. sketchy.

IIRC it is the same session - that European issue I mentioned could have been issued with Corea heading the artists list - again, if my memory serves me right - I was underwhelmed by this, sold my LP, never bought the CD.

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i also saw a later stone alliance album for sale but it looked to be sort of standard early 80s fusion funk. dunno...

Was that the Heads Up album?

This is nicer than one might think - Perla's and Alias' vision of funk was flexible and warm - some Latin inflections, but not the obvious stuff one might expect - the horn arrangements are tasteful.

Give it a try - if you don't like it, I will buy it from you.

020.jpg

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FWIW, I picked up the Delos CD version of the Slam Stewart & Major Holley record for cheap at Berkshire last week. They still list it for $2.99.

Mike

I have that one - very nice album, very well recorded! Forgot it originally was a PM production - Perla had good taste as a producer!

Probably a labor of love from one bass player to two others!

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FWIW, I picked up the Delos CD version of the Slam Stewart & Major Holley record for cheap at Berkshire last week. They still list it for $2.99.

Mike

I have that one - very nice album, very well recorded! Forgot it originally was a PM production - Perla had good taste as a producer!

Probably a labor of love from one bass player to two others!

That's for sure what it sounds like! Could convert anyone into humming jazz bass fans ... ;)

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Was that the Heads Up album?

This is nicer than one might think - Perla's and Alias' vision of funk was flexible and warm - some Latin inflections, but not the obvious stuff one might expect - the horn arrangements are tasteful.

Give it a try - if you don't like it, I will buy it from you.

yes! it was this album. ok perphaps i wil try it if it is still there. thank you, mike W.

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has anyone used PM Records downloading feature to buy any albums?

i guess that 160 isn't so hot for encoding MP3s but it isn't horrible.

also what's up with doug riley? there is a doug riley album-dude plays piano. seems like a canadian quartet album and from the sound samples it sounds nice with some fender rhodes and a cover of chunga's revenge?

mike W, "heads up" has really grown on me. a very nice "commercial" album. wish i had session info though, so i knew who was on what tracks.

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mike W, "heads up" has really grown on me. a very nice "commercial" album. wish i had session info though, so i knew who was on what tracks.

Glad to hear ya like it - Stone Alliance was one of the better fusion bands, with lasting results, IMO.

Was looking forward to their reunion, but now that Don Alias has left us .....

Spinning Heads Up right now - vinyl sounds great with my new Pioneer amp and a new Grado blue cartridge in my old Thorens drive - no need for a CD.

Here's the details:

A-1 Georgia O' written and arranged by Don Alias

Michael Brecker - tenor saxophone

Jan Hammer - keyboards

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - congas

Alex Acuna - drums

A-2 Pedro da Lua by Toninho Horta, arranged by Gene, Don and Kenny

Bob Mintzer - tenor saxophone

Kenny Kirkland - keyboards

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - percussion & drums

A-3 Aunt Remus written and arranged by Gene Perla

Jan Hammer - keyboards

Robert Piltch - guitar

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - percussion & drums

Alan Rubin - cornet

Randy Brecker - fluegelhorn

Jim Pugh & Bob Smith - trombone

A-4 Tribute to Afreeka written and arranged by Don Alias

Jan Hammer - keyboards

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - percussion

B-1 Uncle Jemina by Don Alias; arranged by Don, Gene and Kenny

Bob Mintzer - tenor saxophone

Kenny Kirkland - keyboards

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - percussion & drums

B-2 Kimmy and Donnie by Don Alias; arranged by Don, Gene and Kenny

Dave Liebman - soprano saxophone

Kenny Kirkland - keyboards

Gene Perla - bass, acoustic piano & voice

Don Alias - acoustic guitar, percussion & voice

B-3 Trampoline written and arranged by Gene Perla

Bob Mintzer - bass clarinet

Kenny Kirkland - keyboards

Robert Piltch - guitar

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - percussion & drums

B-4 Para Los Papines (Para que negas?) by Orlando Lopez

Bob Mintzer - flute

Kenny Kirkland - keyboards

Gene Perla - bass

Don Alias - congas

Recorded and re-mixed by Gene Perla at Red Gate Studio, Kent, New York in 1979 and 1980.

Additional recording by Lois Oki at Captain Audio, Toronto and David Stone at Right Track Recording, New York City.

Tribute to Afreeka recorded at Secret Sound Studio, New York City in 1974.

There are nice commentaries to each piece by Gene or Don, but I'm too lazy to type them up right now; maybe I'll add them next week.

Did you buy the CD from Perla? Then it would indeed be poor production value if he didn't enclose the liner sheet that came with the LP .....

Edited by mikeweil

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