sax set up....what's yours?

[tonym]

Hi, i'm considering geting a tenor sax.

I'm curious however, to know whta the sax players amongst you use regarding model, mouthpiece and reeds.

I am tempted to go for a Yanigasawa in bronze with an Otto Link mpc.

This should make for a darker sound, which i prefer.

Do any of you find that silver plated models do actually give you a brighter sound?

Re. reeds, i always liked Hemke or Alexander french cut when playing alto. They were always easy blowing but didn't sound too cutting.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks, tony.

[JSngry]

I play an old Selmer C* (short neck) that had the bore hollowed out before I got it. Played a metal Berg 120/0 for years before I got tired of being so damn BRIGHT all the time. This C*, believe it or not, can actually play louder than the Berg, but it's got a nice fat dark sound that can be colored to fit the context. Plus, it sounds GREAT when miked, which is most of the time these days, it seems. Not my preference necessarily, but whatcha gonna do bout that?

Reeds vary between Vandoren Java 3 1/2, regular Vandoren 3, and LaVoz Medium Hard, whatever seems to be in season at the time.

The thing to remember about mouthpieces is that they're facilitators of the tone, not creators of it. Over time, you're going to get your basic sound no matter WHAT you play on, so keep that in mind. A mouthpiece that sounds radically different when you first play it is going to sound a lot more like what you sound now in a few weeks (or less). If you want a totally different sound, you gotta look at embochure, breathing, all that INTERNAL stuff. So when auditioning mouthpieces, think in terms of ease of playing, evenness, degrees of tonal nuance, that sort of thing, NOT getting a totally different sound. I know you're switching from alto, but keep it in mind anyway.

Really, if you want a dark sound, don't rule out rubber, especially the older Bergs. Seems like metal is the de facto choice today, but it shouldn't always be so if you ask me. Experiment, and if you got the time and the $$$, look at older pieces, either in pawn shops (less $$$) or online (SIGNIFICANTLY more $$$). I lucked into mine - it came with a horn my folks bought me for High School graduation!

[JazzKitten]

I recently became the lucky new owner of B3er's tenor sax - a lovely 1965 Keilwerth called "The Oxford". I'm a total beginner and have just managed to squeek out some scales using the Otto Link 8 mouthpiece that B3er included for me.

As for reeds, I'm currently using 2.5 Vandorens, but I think I will try something a little softer (like a 1.5) because I haven't built up any muscles for proper emboucher...

I bought some reeds from eBay called "Phat Reeds", which are:

"...imported from China. They are made from wild-harvested cane grown on rootstocks hundreds of years old. They are never sprayed with chemicals. They are cured for two full years, hand selected and hand finished. The cane is great! These reeds have more heart than most reeds on the market today. You will need to give them a good soak and perhaps a little minor adjusting before playing, all worth the effort!

Taste a modern woodwind reed. Does is taste like hay? That's because it hasn't been allowed to cure properly. Cane is a GRASS. When cane cures, the taste of hay becomes a sweet, woody taste. That's because the starches in the cane have cured to sugars. These reeds taste as good as they sound!"

Has anyone heard of this new brand before and/or have had experience with them? I shall post a report after I get I try mine out.

JazzKitten

Edited June 23, 2003 by JazzKitten

[tonym]

Thanks for the advice Jim.

It's a good thing to bear in mind what you remarked upon re. sound.

I look at the Sax forums a fair bit and i get the impression that many players change their set up as much as their socks (ok....bad analogy!) and i don't want that situation.

I didn't mention i was going to stick with a hard rubber mpc. The Otto rubber should be nice.

I've actually seen advertised somewhere in the UK Keilworths offered fairly cheap, the EX90, in a nice matt finish. They seem to get good reviews.

I do agree entirely bout the sound thing. I often think when i switch i won't sound that much different to alto --- just pitched different.

Thanks again.

[king ubu]

I got a Selmer Super Action II (got it new some 4 or 5 years ago) and play a metal Link 5* mouthpiece with 4 Vandoren V16 reeds since more than 3 years now. Before that I used a rubber mouthpiece, too, but can't remember what it was.

My combination gives me sort of a fat sound, good in the lower register, maybe a little thin up above. And this combination requires quite a bit of air - but I love it. Anyway, as Jim said, I might sound the same if I still used that old rubber mouthpiece...

And you can read everywhere about saxophone players and their mouthpiece/reed combinations. You might find some *experts* telling you it is impossible to find the perfect combination and bla bla bla.

Don't give a s**t for what they say!

ubu

[Guest Mnytime]

Good question. My cousin's kid has a birthday coming up and I have been considering getting him a sax. He has been using some school sax.

He is 12 years old. Should I get him a Selmer and what is a good price to pay? The small amount of research I have done online I have found that you are better off finding a Selmer with as low a serial number as possible. Though that can lead to higher prices as I understand it. I don't mind spending money but I just don't want to get ripped off in the process of buying one.

Oh yea, he has been playing an Alto but wants to start on a Tenor.

Edited June 23, 2003 by Mnytime

[catesta]

I've got a vintage (1920's) silver Conn Alto.

[GPfr]

As far as checking out horns, I'd say try anything and everything you can get your hands on. That Yanagasawa might be cool, but sitting next to it might be an old Conn that kicks ass and costs a lot less. Or a King Super 20. Ya never know

I play on an old Selmer Balanced Action with a 6* Sugal. Reeds....ugh! Just had 2 bad ones in a row. Which is not a record for me. I think I once had 8 out of 10 reeds that sucked. I play Superial DC when I can get them (not so much of a suck factor with them. Out of 50 reeds, I think I had 2 that were unplayable, 5 that needed some severe breaking in, and the rest were cool). Hemke or Rico Royal when I can't. All 3 1/2.

[GPfr]

Good question. My cousin's kid has a birthday coming up and I have been considering getting him a sax. He has been using some school sax.

He is 12 years old. Should I get him a Selmer and what is a good price to pay? The small amount of research I have done online I have found that you are better off finding a Selmer with as low a serial number as possible. Though that can lead to higher prices as I understand it. I don't mind spending money but I just don't want to get ripped off in the process of buying one.

Oh yea, he has been playing an Alto but wants to start on a Tenor.

Mny,

How long has your cousin's kid been playing?

[Guest Mnytime]

He has been playing about 1 1/2-2 years.

[GPfr]

He has been playing about 1 1/2-2 years.

I would tend to say, don't lay out a lot of money for a Selmer at this point. A Yamaha student model will probably do the job for now. I know the altos are very good, and I know a guy in Texas who played the tenor model for a while (not by choice; I think his Selmer got ripped off). And I'm not trying to be a spokesman for Yamaha ; I just have more experience (positive experience at that) dealing with those horns (I taught saxophone lessons for the last 5 years, most of them beginners, and most of them using a Yamaha student model).

When he gets to be 15 or 16 and if he's thinking about studying music in college, or being a professional musician, then start thinking about a "pro" model horn. And don't think only about Selmers either. For the most part, the Selmers (Mark VI and Balanced Action models) I've checked out have been great. Then there's been some Selmers I've tried that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy!

If/when you guys are looking for a "pro" model horn, again like I said above, check out everything you can get your hands on. Conn made some great horns back in the 30's/40's. King Super 20 is a nice horn as well. I'm sure there are other people here who could tell you about other "pro" model horns (Keilworth, Couf, Yamaha, Yanagasawa, etc.) but those that I listed are the only ones I've checked out.

[Guest Mnytime]

And do you recommend new or used Yamaha's and what is a good price range? While I am at this how about a mouthpiece and reed?

By the way I really appreciate your help!

Edited June 25, 2003 by Mnytime

[Jim Dye]

Mnytime,

Check out www.junkdude.com. He has a decent selection of used saxophones. B3-er bought his horn from him and was quite satisfied. I think thats the one he sold to Jazz Kitten.

I have an SML tenor that I have been playing for 20 years. I was lucky my parents found it. I didn't know for a long time what a great horn I had. SML was a French company that made some really nice sounding horns. They tried to compete with Selmer, but never got the recognition. Now, people are starting to realize how nice they are. junkdude has an SML tenor for 1400 bucks. Pretty reasonable and a good semi-pro horn. Might be worth trying out. Or, if you want to spend the big bucks, buy his Selmer Mark VI varitone tenor for $5200! Looks like a great horn.

http://www.junkdude.com/saxes/saxophonesindex.htm

[GPfr]

And do you recommend new or used Yamaha's and what is a good price range? While I am at this how about a mouthpiece and reed?

By the way I really appreciate your help!

No problem Mny.

If you can find a used one that is in good shape, get that one. A new Yamaha student model will run you between, oh....$900 to $1000. A used one, probably between $300 to $600. Probably not $600, but you never know. Now what constitutes good shape? And, even if it is in good shape (cosmetics can be deceiving), it still might be a dog.

I would recommend having a professional musician look at the horn. If your cousin's kid has a private teacher, that would be the guy (or gal). Even if it's the case where you see a horn in a pawn shop window, get someone to the pawn shop to check it out before any money is laid down.

That being said, don't buy a horn on ebay. Once the deal is done' it's done and you might be stuck with a $400 horn that has been used as a dog's chew toy at some time.

Mouthpiece: the stock Yamaha mouthpiece is called a "4C". That will be stamped somewhere on the mouthpiece. This is pretty much the same as a new Selmer S-80 C*. New, not vintage. Ok, so what the hell does all of that mean? S-80: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the "S" is for Selmer and the "80" is for the 1980's. I'm just guessing, because around 1990 or so, I saw the S-90 model. The thing to remember here is the "C*" part. That is Selmers tip opening designation, tip opening being the distance in the gap between the tip of the mouthpiece and the reed. With Selmer, the higher the letter, the wider the opening. So, a "D" is wider than a "C*", an "E" wider than a "D" etc.

At the end of the day, if he has a sax lesson teacher, the teacher would be able to suggest a different mouthpiece if your cousin's kid needs one.

Band directors have their preferences as well. They usually demand that all of their sax section use a Selmer C*. If your cousin's kid has a Yamaha 4C....not really a big deal. They are essentially the same mouthpiece.

Reeds: I think that I'll borrow a line from Sangrey that I read somewhere: "All reeds SUCK!" That being said, your cousin's kid will have to learn to deal with this part of playing the saxophone, as any saxophonist has to. Find out what he's playing on now, and that will probably do the trick. And I am loathe to recommend reeds, because, everyone is different. For whatever reason, I can't play on any reed made by Vandoren. I don't know why, it's just a piece of cane right? A friend of mine in L.A. can't play anything but Vandoren. Go figure.

Hope this was helpful, and I'll talk to you later.

[Jim Alfredson]

Yeah, I did get that horn I sold JK from the junkdude. Good guy. Nice selection.

I agree with the Yamaha assessment. Everyone I've talked to says to buy the student model horn first and move up from there.

[Guest Mnytime]

Ok but used or new? Forget money here.

Also, if used is the best way to go is there some better year than others or does lower serial #'s matter like with a Selmar?

Edited June 25, 2003 by Mnytime

[Jim Alfredson]

Try Sax Gourmet for info on serial numbers and other useful tidbits about used horns. Sax On The Web also has a lot of information.

New or used depends on whether you want to go vintage or more modern. If you want to get a Yamaha student model I'd get a used one from a local music store. They'll be set up, ready to go, but a lot less than new. Buying a new horn for a beginner is like buying a new car for a beginning driver.

[Guest Mnytime]

Thank You!

[tonym]

It's interesting reading. Mainly because the market is full of different horns for an infinite number of human shapes and sizes.

Two things are clear though --- Good secondhand horns are an excellent choice and also the Yamaha student models seem to get universally good reviews.

BTW i have just been made aware that there is a used Selmer series II for just over £1300, which seems great. The thought of owing a Selmer just gives me goosebumps.

I was steered away from JK EX90.

The local (but nationally esteemed sax repair guy/shop) can basically get his hands on anything, reeds, mps, horns --- the lot. So i trust him implicitly. He's not the type to make a quick buck.

Is it true that a lot of jazzmen still prefer the Series II to the III?

cheers, tonym.

[Jim Alfredson]

Man oh man. I just played a beautiful Selmer Mark VI tonight that belongs to Arno Marsh, Randy's father. We're playing with him this week on a little mini-tour of northern Michigan.

Anyway, this horn is from the late 50s and was owned by Stan Getz! This is the first professional level horn I've ever played and even though I am NOT a saxophonist by any stretch of the imagination, I couldn't believe how free-blowing and easy it was to play that instrument. It seemed like the notes just fell out of the horn. It was amazing. And the weight... the keys... it just felt right. I can see why the Mark VI's are so sought after.

Beautiful instrument. Wow.

[JazzKitten]

Wow, that's really cool, B3er, to have played a horn that Stan Getz once played before!

JK

[Shrdlu]

Speaking of Getz, I have a friend in Adelaide, Australia, called Schmoe, who is a tenor player. Once, when he was in Frisco, Stan gave him some of his reeds (unused, I hope!).

I would recommend a Selmer MK VI tenor, which is what I have. FWIW, I use a gold metal Link #8, with Ricoh reeds - the brown box, not those Royals, which I don't like, for some reason. That setup was used by both Trane and the Hawk, and if it served those two, with such different styles and sounds, you can't go wrong.

The 30s (and earlier) saxes had better tones, on the whole, but the keywork tended to be a swine to play. I admire people like Dorsey and Teschmacher, who could scurry around real fast on those old horns. I have spent some time on an ancient Beuscher alto; it has a nice sound, but I can't play fast bebop runs on it. Give me the Selmer!

I remember the SML tenors. They popped up in the 60s. Some guy broke away from Selmers, or so the story went. I tried a new tenor in a store. It had two-tone lacquer. I liked it, as far as I can recall.

[Jim Alfredson]

Yeah, I would love to have a Selmer Mark VI, but who can afford them nowadays? They're going for upwards of $3k on Ebay now. And a 50s vintage!? Fahgettaboudit!

I like the new Keilwerths. Ron Blake, who played on our record, plays one and sound marvelous. Those are expensive too, but not as bad as the Selmers.

[Shrdlu]

Yeah, the Selmers are pricey, Jim. I was in a music store in Salina, Kansas in 1992, to get some reeds, and I noticed a new Selmer alto for $3995! I haven't looked at the prices since. I guess my Selmer tenor (new in 1974) is worth burgling. It is still looking good.

There were some threads about bass saxophones awhile back, and I wanted one of them. The Selmer looks gorgeous on their website. Imagine what IT would cost, not to mention their Eb contrabass clarinet, which I would also like! But how much would I really play them? A guy in Sweden has a bass sax, and he says they are hard to blow.

[JSngry]

I played contrabass clarinet for a year in college concert band. Didn't want to play tenor for that stuff, and they needed the chair filled, so I volunteered. It's a fun axe, and actually a lot more saxophonistical in how it blows than bass clarinet, which I always tended to overblow (a word to the young people of the world - the inspirations of Booker Ervin & Billy Harper do NOT translate to clarinets of ANY variety ). I couldn't ever see soloing on it, but it's a GREAT color that hasn't been used nearly enough, in my opinion.