Bill Evans-Complete Village Vanguard 1961

[skeith]

Came out yesterday, apparently it's newly remastered with an extra take and includes the announcements before and after tunes.

any reason to get this if you already have the japanese mini-lps?

Inquiring minds want to know....

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The Fantasy site seems to say that this is identical to earlier Japanese and European issues.

I see that disc one includes "announcement and intermission" between the afternoon sets - but there is no intermission between the evening sets. I guess they're saving that for the 30th anniversary set.

Gotta pass on this - the 12 CD box is enough for me.

Mike

[AllenLowe]

well, I'm sorry -mine is just a little bigger - 13 cds -

[skeith]

One other thing, unlike "Waltz for Debby" or "Sunday at the Vanguard", this box presents the material as it was played in the actual sets (by this I mean the order of the tunes).

According to the little write up on the fantasy site, this box has been released already in Europe and Japan and I am very curious if anyone has any comments on sound quality in comparison to 20bit japanese mini-lp or the 20 bit domestics.

Edited September 14, 2005 by skeith

[tjobbe]

Hi,

I own this box since quite a while and try, although not at home, answer some questions.

To my understanding the mastering of the US K2 Fantasy releases of Sunday at and Waltz for Debby and the one of this box should be the same. I compared dates a while ago and the liner notes indicates at least this.

The European box sold was simply the japanese one with a european label covering the original one.

All in all, it looks nice with a fine booklet. What I found a bit disturbing was the interruption on Gloria's Step that cause one CD-P to halt...

Cheers, Tjobbe

[Bill B]

Tjobbe, brief power outage cut 4 seconds out of this track. This release is complete

except for the track "My Man's Gone Now' which opens the second aftenoon set. That tape went missing.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

There is no "missing". There is only "waiting for the 50th anniversary edition".

Mike

[GregK]

I got this at Borders for about $22 (with a coupon), mainly because I didnt already have Waltz for Debby. The remastering is the same as the K-2 from a few years ago, and yes its in complete performance order, with pictures of Keepnews' recording cards on the back of each CD booklet. There are 3 CDs in a hard slipcase, with a separate booklet with a liner note from Keepnews- what is most interesting is that he says he didnt initially approve of this release!

Oh, and the interrupted Gloria's Step (what a great tune! I really enjoy LaFaro's writing on this date) has a brief period (cant remember exactly, maybe 10 seconds or so) of silence where the power to the recording machine went out

Edited September 14, 2005 by GregK

[Free For All]

Speaking of the Vanguard, have you guys (and ladies) checked out the website?

Village Vanguard

Click on the "Gallery" to see all the recordings that have been made there. Quite impressive!

[Pete B]

An interesting review by Doug Ramsey here . I had not planned to buy this, but he has just about sold me:

Bill Evans: Always On Sunday

Bill Evans died twenty five years ago today. To borrow what Robert Benchley said when he heard of George Gershwin’s death, I don’t have to believe if I don’t want to. His music is here through dozens of recordings, but his presence goes beyond aural artifacts. Evans is part of jazz today because he is woven into the concept of nearly every pianist who followed him, and of many who were established when he became an important player in the second half of the 1950s. Indeed, his influence extends beyond pianists to players of virtually every melody instrument; listen, as an example, to the trumpeter Tom Harrell.

Hearing the new Riverside box set of the Bill Evans Trio at the Village Vanguard in 1961, it is easy to imagine that he is still with us. So he is, in a demonstrable way, because he, bassist Scott LaFaro and drummer Paul Motian changed the concept of the piano trio from that of a soloist accompanied by bass and drums to that of three musicians who breathe, think and function as one. Among important jazz trios in the twenty first century, adaptations of the Evans approach to performance are the rule, not the exception.

In addition, LaFaro had the greatest impact of anyone since Jimmy Blanton in Duke Ellington’s band of the early 1940s, on the way bass players use their instrument. He was not only a phenomenal master of the technical aspects of playing the double bass, he was also gifted—quite likely a genius, as was Evans—in matters of harmonic choices, melodic construction and rhythmic placement. It is an unintended consequence of LaFaro’s pervasive influence that regiments of young bassists imitate his ability to play high and fast, but most do not or cannot begin to approximate his lyricism, beauty and timing ,or the depth of his tone, which Evans likened to the sound of an organ. New bassists—not all, but many—emulate the technique they hear from LaFaro on the Evans recordings without understanding how it fits into the complex relationship among Evans, LaFaro and Motian and, particularly, how his note choices relate to the impressionistic chord voicings that give Evans’s playing so much of its character. Worse, they overlook at least half of what made him a great bassist, the power of his straight-ahead swing.

For all of Evans’s legend as an introspective, withdrawn musician, his playing had muscle and grit, and there is plenty of swing in the Vanguard recordings. Originally issued on a forty-one-minute LP, they helped to expand the reputation he made as a New York session musician, occasional leader and Miles Davis sideman. For the next nineteen years, he built his career in great part on the foundation of the trio with LaFaro and Motian and on the Vanguard sessions. In the years since Evans died in 1980, Fantasy, Inc. has reissued that album many times in several formats. The initially released tracks, and almost everything else recorded at the Vanguard on June 25, 1961 are in the huge Bill Evans: Complete Riverside Recordings box.

The new three-CD box has only one “new” track, a previously unissued take of LaFaro’s composition “Gloria’s step,” slightly marred by a brief dropout resulting from a power failure. The set is the most complete possible account of an amazing afternoon’s and night’s work by the Evans trio, two-and-a-half hours of music. Quantity is not, however, what renders the set compelling. Nor is it the fact that the performances are in their proper sequence; that is true in the big Riverside Evans box. In that collection, however, they begin and end, unavoidably but annoyingly, in the middle of CDs. Here, they begin at the beginning of the first CD and conclude at the end of the third. No, it is the intensity and joy of the music itself, and the sense of occasion, that have kept people going back to these performances for four decades. The recordings are remastered so that listening to them, preferably with closed eyes and a glass of something good at hand, we are as near as possible to being with Evans, LaFaro and Motian in that little wedge of a club beneath Seventh Avenue South in New York. Through expanded intervals between numbers, chatter of the audience is now a greater part of the ambience. We hear snippets of discussion among the musicians about repertoire choices, and we hear their occasional reactions to one another’s playing.

Orrin Keepnews, who produced the original sessions, was not involved in preparing the new reissue, but wrote liner notes for the package. In the essay, he admits to initial skepticism about the idea of yet another release, but says that his doubts were erased when he heard the results. When I knew the box was on the way, I had about decided that it would be redudant. It is not. I have had it playing for days. I am making room for it on my Bill Evans shelf.

Adam Gopnik of The New Yorker wrote of Evans’s playing in these recordings, “They are as close to pure emotion, produced without impediments - not at all the same thing as an entire self poured out without inhibitions, the bebop dream - as exists in music.” This is a good day to read “That Sunday,” Gopnik’s 2001 account of the Evans Vanguard sessions on the occasion of their fortieth anniversary. It is a good day to remember one of our greatest musicians.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Pete B

[skeith]

thanks everyone for your comments.

to those that have the box, does the proper sequencing of the tunes add anything?

Are the announcements an enhancement?

Has anyone compared the sound to the japanese VICJs? or any other audiophile versions (those JVCXR versions, for instance)?

[Ron S]

Pete, thanks for posting the Ramsey piece. I had been debating whether to replace my two 20-bit K2's with this set and, like you, I think he's convinced me.

EDIT: And I'm eagerly awaiting that 50th anniversary edition with liners by Michael Fitzgerald.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Ron S

[GA Russell]

thanks everyone for your comments.

to those that have the box, does the proper sequencing of the tunes add anything?

Are the announcements an enhancement?

Has anyone compared the sound to the japanese VICJs? or any other audiophile versions (those JVCXR versions, for instance)?

←

I got my copy today! Give me a day or two to digest it, and I'll be happy to contribute my opinions.

[GregK]

thanks everyone for your comments.

to those that have the box, does the proper sequencing of the tunes add anything?

Are the announcements an enhancement?

Has anyone compared the sound to the japanese VICJs? or any other audiophile versions (those JVCXR versions, for instance)?

←

I honestly can only barely make out what is said during the announcements and repertoire discussion. The mikes seem to just barely pick these up, so these elements wouldnt be enough to recommend it. It's nice to have the crowd noise added, however

[tjobbe]

......

Are the announcements an enhancement?

not really

Has anyone compared the sound to the japanese VICJs? or any other audiophile versions (those JVCXR versions, for instance)?

←

I still have Waltz for Debby as AP SACD and I would see the SACD as a slightly better choice, but comparing the RedBook layers only... I would rate that rather an academic one.

I personally bought that due to the attractive price here (25€ now, I paid a little less) and the nice box itself with the attractive booklet.

Although I have to admit that I'm a bit Evans addicted so I might have taken decision not with clear mind....

Cheers, Tjobbe

[md655321]

Anyone know when or where All of You (take 1) was released?

Only that take and the Gloria's step werent released Waltz for Debby or Sunday at the VV. Which makes me wonder why this needed to be 3 cds. Did they add applause and announcements to justify the third disc?

[Bill B]

Japanese released it on 3 CDs,could have fit on 2. Must be money.

[RDK]

I think I added it up a week or two ago and it came out to about 160 minutes with the new material. But given the track lengths it couldn't be split onto just two CDs.

[GA Russell]

I suppose everyone here is familiar with the music. I thought that I would put down my thoughts (without reading what has already been posted on this thread, in order to avoid prejudicing my opinions) for the benefit of those who haven't already made up their minds.

This is a 3-CD box set whose list price is $29.98. Each CD comes in its own standard jewel case. There is a small booklet with new liner notes by producer Orrin Keepnews.

The box was issued in Japan in 2003, and in Europe the following year.

The liner notes say that the music has been mastered in analog utilizing the 20-bit K2 Super Coding System.

The trio consisted of Bill Evans on piano, Scott LaFaro on bass and Paul Motian on drums. The club's MC pronounces Motian's name as MO-tee-un. I thought it was decided over at AAJ a couple of years ago that it is pronounced MO-shee-un. Maybe Chuck or Chris can set us straight.

The recording date was the last day of a two week gig. LaFaro died ten days later. Keepnews in the liner notes says that there was increasing tension between Evans and LaFaro, suggesting that LaFaro may have left the group soon afterward had he lived.

The day's work was two afternoon sets and three evening sets. The sets are presented here as they were performed. From the five sets came 22 songs. From the 22, six were selected for the album Sunday at the Village Vanguard, and another six were used for Waltz for Debby.

Of the remaining ten songs, all are alternate takes except I Loves You, Porgy.

Of the 22, all were issued in the Complete Riverside box except the first take of Gloria's Step, which was interrupted by a power outage.

In his liner notes to the OJC Debby, Ira Gitler says that because of his passing, songs which featured LaFaro were selected for Sunday, the first of the two albums issued.

I have always preferred Debby, because the Sunday collection is a little too dry for me.

I was really looking forward to this box set because I wanted to hear the songs in the order they were recorded, and because my copy of Sunday is an old cassette tape which hasn't sounded good in years.

I'm glad I have this box. I find it more enjoyable than either Sunday or Debby. I don't find the inclusion of the alternate takes to be annoying, but listening to three hours of Bill Evans in one sitting is more than I prefer. I expect my favorite over time will be Disc 1, the two afternoon sets. They are a little breezier than the evening sets. Disc 2, with the first and second evening sets, is the most dry of the three discs.

There are a few instances of comments between songs. These pauses do not interfere with the enjoyment of the music. They suggest to me that each set should be listened to as a single entity.

Even if you already have both Sunday and Debby, I recommend that you consider picking up this box, particularly if you can find a low price such as at YourMusic.com.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

This is a perpetual debate.

Mo-tee-an is the correct Armenian pronunciation.

Mo-shun is the pronunciation that Paul has accepted as being his last name. See his album "Monk In Motian", designed to be said "Monk In Motion".

Mike

[RDK]

I also have a live boot where Charlie Haden introduces Paul as "motion."

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I knew this had been done here before:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...091&hl=armenian

Mike

[Quincy]

Good work guys, you sold another copy.

Seriously, thanks for the reviews. I've been meaning to upgrade anyway, and I have always been interested in hearing it as it was played. Seems like a natural winner.

[GregK]

I think I added it up a week or two ago and it came out to about 160 minutes with the new material.  But given the track lengths it couldn't be split onto just two CDs.

←

Disc 3 is just over 36 min long

[Bill B]

I think I added it up a week or two ago and it came out to about 160 minutes with the new material.  But given the track lengths it couldn't be split onto just two CDs.

←

Disc 3 is just over 36 min long

←

The Japanese releases I have lists the 3 CDs as: 49:29,64:21.39:31 Total 152:81

@ CDs each 76:40, Is this incorrect ?