johnagrandy

Pangaea and Agartha

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wow so that is lucas on dark magus...interesting. thanks.

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Only for the first two minutes or so. The wild stuff comes courtesy of Gaumont.

wow so that is lucas on dark magus...interesting. thanks.

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A question about one of my favourite bands is a good place for my first post...

Lucas solos once per concert on the Agharta and Pangaea discs.

On Agharta, he solos on the second track of disc 2 around the start of the tune most people call “For Dave.”

He also solos on disc 1 of Pangaea around the 30:29 mark following Fortune’s solo.

On Dark Magus, that’s Lucas playing initially on “Tatu“, with Gaumont taking over afterwards around the 2:30 mark. Cosey is likely playing percussion throughout.

So Agharta Disc 2 Track 1 is "Right Off" , and Track 2 is "For Dave" ?

How about Agharta Disc 1 ? Is it really "Prelude 1" and "Prelude 2" or did someone just not know the tunes' names ?

Finally it is worth it to get the remastered CDs ?

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Depends who you ask. A lot of the song titles from this period didn't have names.

On Disc 2, Track 1 is "Theme from Jack Johnson" or "Right Off" if you prefer. Towards the end, it becomes "Ife," which continues onto Track 2 until "'For Dave" comes along.

On Disc 1, the track timings for the Preludes aren't correct. The first prelude is often called "Funk" while the second tends to go by "Agharta Prelude."

For Pangaea, Disc 1 is "Turnaroundphrase/Tune in 5/Turnaroundphrase", followed by "Zimbabwe," which is Track 2.

Disc 2 is "Ife" and "For Dave."

Some discographers name some of the songs after the titles on Dark Magus, which are Swahili for 1-4, but to me that's like calling a song "Side One."

I don't have the original albums, or the Japanese issues, which apparently have more music (about 10 minutes so in the case of Agharta), so I can't comment on the sound of the Legacies, other than to say it's time these were remastered.

So Agharta Disc 2 Track 1 is "Right Off" , and Track 2 is "For Dave" ?

How about Agharta Disc 1 ? Is it really "Prelude 1" and "Prelude 2" or did someone just not know the tunes' names ?

Finally it is worth it to get the remastered CDs ?

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I read on the Steve Hoffman forum that the latest japanese reissue of Pangaea (maybe also Agartha) has unedited (or differently edited) tracks, which are quite longer than the original version.

Can anyone confirm this?

This is the CD: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=2376840

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I read on the Steve Hoffman forum that the latest japanese reissue of Pangaea (maybe also Agartha) has unedited (or differently edited) tracks, which are quite longer than the original version.

Can anyone confirm this?

This is the CD: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=2376840

Fuck. I just bought the cheap Amazon versions.

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I read on the Steve Hoffman forum that the latest japanese reissue of Pangaea (maybe also Agartha) has unedited (or differently edited) tracks, which are quite longer than the original version.

Can anyone confirm this?

This is the CD: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=2376840

Don't know about the "new" Japanese reissues, but I'm pretty sure the older Japanese issues of at least Agartha (both CD and perhaps even Japanese vinyl), were longer - unedited versions. Don't know about Pangaea, but somebody here (Undergroundagent?) went nuts when I offered my Japanese Agartha CD's for sale 3 or 4 years ago -- specifically because of the longer material.

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I have the Japanese 'Agartha'; 'Mayisha' comes to a proper end- as opposed to the fade on all other versions- and the final few minutes of disc 2 have some additional feedback/ bleeps/ rattling percussion. A few minutes extra in total although if you don't have them I wouldn't lose any sleep unless you're a real Miles nut.

That said, I do prefer the mix on the Japanese version.

Anyone got the Japanese 'Pangaea'?

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So at time of this recording Miles had a bad hip (what was wrong?), ulcers (bleeding?), busted ankles which didn't heal right or something, and was addicted (to what? painkillers?) ...

... 'cause if you compare P/A to Fillmore Live or any of those from a few years earlier his facility on the horn has strikingly deteriorated.

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So at time of this recording Miles had a bad hip (what was wrong?), ulcers (bleeding?), busted ankles which didn't heal right or something, and was addicted (to what? painkillers?) ...

Sickle-cell; don't know, yes, from a car accident; blow.

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Bits and pieces I found from Amazon reviews:

"For untrammeled Pete Cosey, PANGAEA is nonpareil and about as epochal as out-guitar has ever gotten (although I think this group's best music was "Calypso Frelimo" on GET UP WITH IT). Unfortunately, the scant few lucky enough (or not, in this case) to have heard the original once-difficult-now-impossible-to-find Japan-Sony LP, will lament the CD remix that puts Cosey dimly in the left channel, where he had previously been front, center, and thermonuclear. Probably the worst of Sony's many and various Miles reissue screw-ups - right up there with the first CD version of MILES AHEAD."

"AGHARTA is certainly Miles Davis' finest hour, his most intense moment. But if you hear the original LP you'll see that this music is infinitely more radical and wild than it sounds now, on this LOUSY CD MIX. Columbia SANITIZED this recording on CD: it now sounds utterly FLAT!! IT DOES NOT SOUND AS IT SHOULD: I JUST WISHED BILL LASWELL HAD A CHANCE TO RE-MIX THIS POWERFUL RECORDING. CHECK THE ORIGINAL LP: Reggie Lucas and Pete Cozey are upfront, menacing; Michael Henderson's bass is EXTREME, and Miles opens up a river of shining light-sound. To make a long story short: transfer the LP to a recordable CD, and then you'll be able to hear the AUTHENTIC AGHARTA!!"

Unfortunately, this is absolutely true. I bought the vinyl when it first came out, and Henderson's bass guitar is up front in the mix, lending a superheavy funk factor to the sound. Pete Cosey is killer throughout and also featured prominently in the mix. I got rid of almost all my vinyl(Sadly, this included), but I have a good tape I made of the vinyl, and when I want to listen to Agharta, that's what I reach for. I also have the Japanese import disc, and the mix on that is also atrocious- don't spend $40+ on it, you get almost exactly the same f***ed up mix on the domestic version that sells for around $20(I also owned the horrible domestic mix).

This is one recording that I pray someone with half a brain will remix(properly) to get the original mix and reissue it. The original mix of Agharta was the closest I've heard to how the band actually sounded live.

I saw the group with Sonny Fortune about 8-10 times, and they were a total mindblower- deep, deep funk grooves with Henderson up front in the sound mix, and Cosey's guitar playing was from another galaxy, not even another planet- that's how 'out' he was. One critic likened his guitar solos to a drill to the back of the head, and that description comes pretty close to the effect it had on me.

Back to the original question, what I remember of those gigs I caught 30 years ago was that Lucas hardly ever soloed. From what I remember, nearly every solo is by Cosey, with Lucas playing some excelleny rhythm guitar.

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Well I still got the LPs. So how do I get them into digital? Is there some place I can send them?

Edited by johnagrandy

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You can get a home burner (or find somebody who does) and dub them to CD just as you would a cassette.

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Try this link from Losin's site: HERE

Whoooah ! Is there any way to get tapes of those Japanese radio recordings ?

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The January 22 and February 8 concerts were streamed on darkfunk.com some years ago, so there must be bootlegs around.

Edit: Bootlegs are listed on the Miles Ahead site. The February 8 concert is an audience recording though.

Edited by Claude

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i was actually just listening to 1/22/75. i have 2 bootlegs of it-a shorter version and a slightly less good sounding 2 disc version. it is awesome. just about my favorite miles stuff i have. the bass is definitely out front. it's a good mix.

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i was actually just listening to 1/22/75. i have 2 bootlegs of it-a shorter version and a slightly less good sounding 2 disc version. it is awesome. just about my favorite miles stuff i have. the bass is definitely out front. it's a good mix.

akanalog, do you accept begging?

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I have the Japanese 'Agartha'; 'Mayisha' comes to a proper end- as opposed to the fade on all other versions- and the final few minutes of disc 2 have some additional feedback/ bleeps/ rattling percussion. A few minutes extra in total although if you don't have them I wouldn't lose any sleep unless you're a real Miles nut.

That said, I do prefer the mix on the Japanese version.

Anyone got the Japanese 'Pangaea'?

I have the Japanese Pangaea. Like the Japanese Aghatha the sound is much better than on the Columbia-versions. That said, I can't compare them to the original LP's.

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I have the Japanese 'Agartha'; 'Mayisha' comes to a proper end- as opposed to the fade on all other versions- and the final few minutes of disc 2 have some additional feedback/ bleeps/ rattling percussion. A few minutes extra in total although if you don't have them I wouldn't lose any sleep unless you're a real Miles nut.

That said, I do prefer the mix on the Japanese version.

Anyone got the Japanese 'Pangaea'?

I have the Japanese Pangaea. Like the Japanese Aghatha the sound is much better than on the Columbia-versions. That said, I can't compare them to the original LP's.

Any extra music on the Japanese edition?

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I have the Japanese 'Agartha'; 'Mayisha' comes to a proper end- as opposed to the fade on all other versions- and the final few minutes of disc 2 have some additional feedback/ bleeps/ rattling percussion. A few minutes extra in total although if you don't have them I wouldn't lose any sleep unless you're a real Miles nut.

That said, I do prefer the mix on the Japanese version.

Anyone got the Japanese 'Pangaea'?

I have the Japanese Pangaea. Like the Japanese Aghatha the sound is much better than on the Columbia-versions. That said, I can't compare them to the original LP's.

Any extra music on the Japanese edition?

According to the Miles Ahead site, there are just over two extra minutes of Mtume and Cosey at the end of Godwana ("For Dave") on the last Japanese issue.

http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=750201

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According to the Miles Ahead site, there are just over two extra minutes of Mtume and Cosey at the end of Godwana ("For Dave") on the last Japanese issue.

http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=750201

I thought Pete Losin would have the answer, though last time I checked the site was down. Thanks for that.

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I have the Japanese 'Agartha'; 'Mayisha' comes to a proper end- as opposed to the fade on all other versions- and the final few minutes of disc 2 have some additional feedback/ bleeps/ rattling percussion. A few minutes extra in total although if you don't have them I wouldn't lose any sleep unless you're a real Miles nut.

That said, I do prefer the mix on the Japanese version.

Anyone got the Japanese 'Pangaea'?

I have the Japanese Pangaea. Like the Japanese Aghatha the sound is much better than on the Columbia-versions. That said, I can't compare them to the original LP's.

Any extra music on the Japanese edition?

From my ipod (so subject to a slight margin for error), the japanese times are as follows:

Pangaea:

Zimbabwe - 41.42

Gondawana - 49.46

Agharta:

Prelude - 32.33

Maiysha - 13.10

Interlude... - 1.00.48

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people interested in this era of miles music might be intrested in some albums on east wind.

i think they were prob. recorded when miles was over in japan with his band.

one album would be masabumi kikuchi (kochi)'s album "wishes" which is from 76 and has reggie lucas, steve grossman, dave liebman, al foster and mtume on it. good album. for some reason anthony jackson is on bass? (was henderon off on some norman connors cheese stuff?) and terumasa is in the miles seat on trumpet. kikuchi plays keys, including the electric organ so familiar from miles davis albums. actually since this album was recorded in '76 obviously my theory of being recorded during a miles japanese tour is wrong ( i think...). one song sort of apes the bassline from rated X, i think it is. and with the electric organ...well a lot of the japanese guys obviously had a strong love for miles and his music, hence the use of the yamaha electric organ and many of miles' sidemen of the time. this album is a good one, though.

i have never heard it, but reggie lucas and mtume have an album called "survival themes" which is partially duets and partially with some other miles-related guys (i think henderson is on this one...)

shunzo ohno has an album called "something's coming" which has reggie lucas and cedric lawson (from miles '72 band) as well as roy haynes. ohno plays miles-ish trumpet over lawsons electric organ work. this album is a good one. the other sidemen are american but i can't remember them right now. maybe don pate is on bass.

sam morrison has a more commercial album from a few years later called "dune" which has al foster on drums. morrison and foster were both part of miles' last band before retirement. this album is ok but not as dark as the ones i mentioned before. there is a song on this one dedicated to miles.

well anyway, these are some miles related albums on east wind off the top of my head. can be found as japanese imports.

i recently got terumasa hinio's "hi-nology" and there is even a song called "like miles" and the back photo shows hino totally ripping off miles jack johnson stance (side profile, arched back). but this album copies more of filles era miles than the pangea stuff. decent album though it might grow on me.

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Fascinating stuff.

Anyone seek the flick "Electric Miles: A Different Kind of Blue" ? Worth watching ?

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