Ring dem doorbells!

[Free For All]

A quick scan of the thread revealed no mention of Victor Feldman. Where does he fall (as a "vibist") among these players?

[.:.impossible]

Like someone else earlier said "This is a no brainer"

Why??

Because all are great BUT..

Milt Jackson is the only vibist who actually "played" the instrument. The rest executed either technically, rhythmically or experimentally. Milt made the instrument sing to you. No other had that potential except maybe Lem Winchester (who died too soon). Yes, Bobby was really out there pushing the envelope and was daring but the instrument did not speak to you. You knew he was executing frontiers on the vibes but not necessarily playing the vibes. Cal Tjader was the best at incorporating his vibes into the genre he was following, latin jazz, but again, the instrument did not quite sing to you, he merely executed very well within the context of the style of music (which a lot of other vibists cannot do even in latin jazz).

In short...... Milt was "in touch" with the instrument, the individual sound of each note, no matter what tune or progression. It was not just the blues, but him.

Bruce

I couldn't disagree more. A lot of vibists sing to me. Milt Jackson is not the only vibist who actually played the instrument. I just can't understand where this is coming from, especially knowing that you yourself play the vibraphone.

Milt Jackson defined the sound of the instrument for a lot of people, and I think that is something that many vibists have been dealing with ever since. I know you have said elsewhere that you used to play Milt Jackson parts verbatim. While that is ok for you, other musicians were, and are, more interested in finding their own voices. Milt didn't just take up the vibraphone and settle on sounding like Lionel Hampton. Red Norvo, Rollini, etc. These guys played their way.

Let's start with Bobby Hutcherson. Have you ever heard Idle Moments? The Kicker? The entire session has a very songlike quality. Both of these sessions were recording during the same period that he was exploring Joe Chambers compositions. I think you are really selling Bobby Hutcherson short by assuming that he only played one way. He has decades of recordings that are all vastly different. I don't care for all of them. I have a feeling I might not care for half of them. I don't know. I do know that it is not possible for me to listen to Components and assume that Bobby Hutcherson played in that style for the rest of his career.

A lot of guys coming up after Bags made a conscious decision NOT to cop his style. You are writing off a lot of great music by assuming that all everyone else was doing was executing either technically, rhythmically or experimentally. I personally cannot draw those lines. These are elements of music, but they can't singularly define someone's approach.

I find it odd that vibists are more close-minded and decided about how the vibraphone should be played than other musicians/listeners are. All anyone ever talks about is Milt Jackson or Gary Burton and the guys who play in their styles. Come on Bruce! How about your buddy Sid? Don't you think he actually "plays" his instrument?

[.:.impossible]

Victor seems to be one of those guys that vibists never took seriously. Because he was a pianist. Nevermind the fact that he had a fully developed four-mallets style contemporaneous with Gary Burton. Victor was different because he was playing four mallets above the nodes, which allows for a lot less reaching and much flatter shapes. You can hear it in his tone, which is quieter and somewhat less "alive". I personally like his playing. Gary Burton has always played in the middle of the bar, getting a much louder and thicker tone. I like Gary too, in certain contexts.

[BeBop]

A quick scan of the thread revealed no mention of Victor Feldman. Where does he fall (as a "vibist") among these players?

Good call, Free. Again, perhaps not my absolute favorite, but worthy of inclusion.

[BruceW]

Don't believe I ever said I played Milt Jackson parts verbatim, why?? because I couldn't. I may have said I tried to. Most vibists can't and when they do, it is very stiff. That must have been someone else who said that.

Now, having said that, it is not a put down of other vibists, why? because most other vibists started trying to emulate Milt. Milt himself, played exactly like Hamp until he broke away and started a whole revolution of vibists, including Bobby, Roy Ayers, Lem Winchester, Victor Feldman, Dave Pike and a host of others. Bobby distinctly has his own voice and has had for a very long time but that does not negate where he started from. Bobby himself, as great as he is, will tell you he could not "play" the music the way Milt did (inside out backwards and forwards). It did not diminish him one bit. Believe me, most all vibists while learning and trying to emulate Milt, will eventually voluntarily or otherwise attempt to break away from th exact sound Milt has. It is a natural progression.

I think vibists are more critical of these analogies because we understand the instrument way more than the average listener or even a lot of other musicians. And this is not a negative.

[johnagrandy]

Like someone else earlier said "This is a no brainer"

Why??

Because all are great BUT..

Milt Jackson is the only vibist who actually "played" the instrument. The rest executed either technically, rhythmically or experimentally. Milt made the instrument sing to you. No other had that potential except maybe Lem Winchester (who died too soon). Yes, Bobby was really out there pushing the envelope and was daring but the instrument did not speak to you. You knew he was executing frontiers on the vibes but not necessarily playing the vibes. Cal Tjader was the best at incorporating his vibes into the genre he was following, latin jazz, but again, the instrument did not quite sing to you, he merely executed very well within the context of the style of music (which a lot of other vibists cannot do even in latin jazz).

In short...... Milt was "in touch" with the instrument, the individual sound of each note, no matter what tune or progression. It was not just the blues, but him.

Bruce

This is a really bizarre statement. You might as well say that most every musician on a non-wind instrument never achieved lyricism, did not "sing to you".

Do the percussive aspects of McCoy's left-hand and the complex scalar permutations of his right imply that he is merely technically executing on the piano? Does this mean Max with a sparse kit does not "speak to you" because he lacks enough distinct sounds ? And by that analogy it's even worse for a big kit drummer like Erskine because no one can master the sound of so many skins or sheets.

I don't spend much time nowadays listening to recorded Bobby , but I saw him live many times at KK in the late 70s early 80s and he was not a Steve Nelson cerebral style of player.

The man gripped ahold of you and took you into his world. It was a mesmerizing and unforgettable experience.

Hutcherson merely technically integrated his instrument into the prevailing musical context spoken by others ... ? I don't think so.

Hutcherson live was capable of locking your anticipation into his own and catalyzing truly transcendental experiences.

Edited March 15, 2006 by johnagrandy

[mikeweil]

Cal Tjader was the best at incorporating his vibes into the genre he was following, latin jazz, but again, the instrument did not quite sing to you, he merely executed very well within the context of the style of music (which a lot of other vibists cannot do even in latin jazz).

"Executing very well" is a damn hard thing to do on any instrument, for one, and doing it on the vibes is much more difficult than one might think - the subtleties of phrasing are hard to do.

If Tjader or anybody else didn't "sing", how come I can memorize many more phrases from Ayers or Tjader than from Bags? I know several solos of John Lewis from MJQ recordings by heart, but the Jackson solos fly away - I can recognize him any time, but his style is so embellished that it's hard to memorize a solo. Can you do this?

I wonder which Tjader jazz recordings you have heard - there are some, BTW. where he emulates the MJQ and Bags style so well I fooled a friend of mine with them.

[Peter Friedman]

I don't spend much time nowadays listening to recorded Bobby , but I saw him live many times at KK in the late 70s early 80s and he was not a Steve Nelson cerebral style of player.

I have seen Steve Nelson live and found him to be a very swinging, blues oriented player. It may depend on the context in which he is playing, but I strongly recommend the following CD's to demonstrate the way Nelson can play with emotion and soulfulness.

Steve Nelson - Communications - Criss Cross

Steve Nelson - Fuller Nelson - Sunnyside

Mike LeDonne - Bags Groove - Double-Time

[mikeweil]

Steve Nelson - Full Nelson - Sunnyside

That's one of the most relaxed and best sounding vibes records I have!

(I understand that's a CD different to the "Fuller Nelson" Peter mentions.)

Edited March 16, 2006 by mikeweil

[.:.impossible]

I'm pretty sure Bruce was just trying to say that in his mind no one else compares to Milt Jackson. Bruce is a vibist. He knows first-hand the challenges that the vibraphone presents to the player.

Bruce, everyone sings in a different style. I don't think it is possible to say that Louis is hands down the only trumpet player that ever made the instrument sing. Brownie either for that matter. Same goes for Lester Young and the tenor saxophone. I think I understand what you meant, but I would still stress that there is a lot to be heard in other vibists' recordings that you just cannot get in a Milt Jackson record.

All that being said, I love to listen to Milt. Everything from Wizard of the Vibes, the Monk stuff, to Bags and Wes and the more blues/hard bop related sessions. I still haven't developed much of a taste for the MJQ though...

Now listening: "These Foolish Things" Lionel Hampton The Complete Quartets & Quintets With Oscar Peterson on Verve (Disc 3). Singin'...

[johnagrandy]

Moving into the here and now ... anyone on here who hasn't checked out Joe Locke should do so.

I'm sure glad I did.

[.:.impossible]

As far as the here and now goes, Pascal Schumacher was recently brought to my attention. I really like his playing.

http://www.pascalschumacher.com/

[SonnyBoy]

I do like Cal Tjader's - Live At The Blackhawk - album and wish it was available on CD. I also like his session with Getz. Other than those two, Cal never impressed me much. He also made some commercially oriented albums that turned me off a bit.

Roy Ayers is another guy who started out (recording-wise) playing straight ahead jazz that I liked, but moved into a heavily commercial direction and I lost interest in his playing.

Bags on the other hand had a lengthy career that was 99% pure jazz. Milt's was a blues player

par-excellence, and a great ballad player as well. When it came to swinging, he could not be beat, in my opinion. It was extremely rare when Bags did not sound terrific.

Some of Bobby Hutcherson's recordings are ones I very much like, but as my personal taste leans to straight ahead jazz, there are quite a few times when Hutcherson's playing doesn't do much for me.

Lem Winchester is a player I very much liked. Unfortunately, his early death left us a limited number of recordings.

It, as usual, all boils down to personal taste.

[BruceH]

Eddie Costa.

[mikeweil]

How's the OJC with Getz (it pops up in its ZYX-24-bit incarnation here).

It's an excellent, spirited session, but the best edition is the hybrid SACD Fantasy issued - great sound!

[mikeweil]

I do like Cal Tjader's - Live At The Blackhawk - album and wish it was available on CD.

It is, in fact all of the sessions Tjader recorded at the Blackhawk are on some CD:

Jazz At The Blackhawk (a straightahead quartet date) Fantasy 3-241/Fantasy 8096 is on Original Jazz Classics OJCCD-436-2

Latin Concert Fantasy 3-275/Fantasy 8014 is on Original Jazz Classics OJCCD-643-2

A Night At The Blackhawk Fantasy 3-283/Fantasy 8026 is on Fantasy FCD-24755-2 Black Hawk Nights

2 more tracks from this session are on Tjader Goes Latin Fantasy 3-289/Fantasy 8030 CD issue is Fantasy FCD-24730-2 Black Orchid

Demasiado Caliente Fantasy 3-309/Fantasy 8053 is on Fantasy FCD-24732-2 Latino! with two Latin tracks from Fantasy 8079 which also was titled Latino!

The remaining straightahead material from these sessions was Fantasy 3-315/8059 Live and Direct and also is on Fantasy FCD-24755-2 Black Hawk Nights

All of this material was recorded live at the Black Hawk!

So what is it that you are looking for?

[mikeweil]

I have added a list of all major doorbellists to the initial post - please help tp complete this!

[couw]

I have added a list of all major doorbellists to the initial post - please help tp complete this!

Jerzy Milian! (10 Apr 1935)

in spite of some scary pics, he's still very much alive

Edited May 11, 2006 by couw

[Jim R]

Mike,

There were quite a few names mentioned in recent AAJ threads as well... perhaps there might be a few you can add here...

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=6525

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=11396

[Guest akanalog]

joe locke's appearance always turned me off from checking him out.

he generally sported a mullet and sunglasses on the albums i would see.

i see he has cut his hair at this point but it's too late for me and him.

[marcello]

joe locke's appearance always turned me off from checking him out.

he generally sported a mullet and sunglasses on the albums i would see.

i see he has cut his hair at this point but it's too late for me and him.

You can always get up to date here: Joe Locke

It's been a long, long tome since he cut his hair.

This is a new one coming up from the concert that the photo above was taken:

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Antonello Vannucchi!

[.:.impossible]

Ha! Never heard of him. How's he sound?

That picture is a kick! You know the purists are polishing their bars right now... they would die if they saw him laying on his vibes.

[Michael Weiss]

I haven't backtracked through all the posts here but has anyone mentioned Buddy Montgomery?

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Ha! Never heard of him. How's he sound?

That picture is a kick! You know the purists are polishing their bars right now... they would die if they saw him laying on his vibes.

Cary,

I don't know much of the guy other than I love his sound. That pic is truly a kick!!

Vannucchi is mostly an organist but this shot is from his days with a group called "I Marc 4". Evidently legendary in 60s Italy.

I have been pursuing info about him off and on with a recent obsession of swanky sixties Italian cinema music. His organ work can be heard on many a soundtrack from the likes of Piccioni and Umiliani and his is truly the signature sound that you hear on much in that genre.

A recent hommage disc from Daniele Luppi (don't know of him either aside from being a modernist and found him via Vannucchi) brings together the group of I Marc 4 with Antonello.