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jeffcrom

BFT 181 link and discussion

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Haven't listened to all of it yet but really like what I have heard.  (I was listening while working out at the Y this morning.  Great exercise music.)    Only one I've id'd is number 7 (which was pretty easy). Metronome al stars and they really were all stars-- Basie, Bean, Christian, Carter, Goodman etc.  I think Bean's solo was one he later turned into a song.  One Step Down maybe?  

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Posted (edited)

Track 1

"Ooh Bop Sh'Bam" Powell, Navarro, Dorham, Stitt

Track 4

Sidney Bechet, Tommy Ladnier, "I've Found a New Baby"

Track 11

Phineas Newborn?

Edited by BillF

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#8 has to be a live recording of the Warren Haynes/Derek Trucks version Allman Brothers doing "Afro-Blue", doesn't it?   I know Trucks loves the song, and I don't think Betts and Trucks ever played together in the group - Haynes was the common denominator on guitar. 

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15 minutes ago, felser said:

#8 has to be a live recording of the Warren Haynes/Derek Trucks version Allman Brothers doing "Afro-Blue", doesn't it?   I know Trucks loves the song, and I don't think Betts and Trucks ever played together in the group - Haynes was the common denominator on guitar. 

Wow. I've seen Trucks with the Tedeschi-Trucks band.  Didn't know he could play like this. 

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2 hours ago, medjuck said:

Haven't listened to all of it yet but really like what I have heard.  (I was listening while working out at the Y this morning.  Great exercise music.)    Only one I've id'd is number 7 (which was pretty easy). Metronome al stars and they really were all stars-- Basie, Bean, Christian, Carter, Goodman etc.  I think Bean's solo was one he later turned into a song.  One Step Down maybe?  

Yes - the Metronome All-Stars. I won't add any other details now in case someone else wishes to do so.

39 minutes ago, BillF said:

Track 1

"Ooh Bop Sh'Bam" Powell, Navarro, Dorham, Stitt

Track 4

Sidney Bechet, Tommy Ladnier, "I've Found a New Baby"

Track 11

Phineas Newborn?

Yes on tracks 1 & 4; no on track 11. When someone who owns that album hears that track, they'll know it right away.

18 minutes ago, felser said:

#8 has to be a live recording of the Warren Haynes/Derek Trucks version Allman Brothers doing "Afro-Blue", doesn't it?   I know Trucks loves the song, and I don't think Betts and Trucks ever played together in the group - Haynes was the common denominator on guitar. 

Yes, it's the Allman Brothers Band, but with a guest drummer in place of Butch Trucks and Jaimoe. 

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5 hours ago, medjuck said:

Wow. I've seen Trucks with the Tedeschi-Trucks band.  Didn't know he could play like this. 

He can, and Haynes even more so.

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Posted (edited)

Track #2 features a pianist with a nice touch, though the approach does not seem very adventurous.  A lot of possibilities here; I would not hazard a guess. 

Track #3 is an odd one.  It's like 1950's Miles coming out of one channel and 60's/70's avant garde out of the other, with no attempt to meet one another. 

Track #5 sounds like Sonny Rollins in a trio setting, though probably not--it could be a very good imitator.  The drummer could well be Elvin Jones, though he seems to have a lighter touch.

Track #6 is an alto?  Not sure.  It has a Classical music feel, not that your hear sax (spotlighted) over there.  No guess.

Tracks #7 sounds a lot like Basie, though the guitar solo threw me--Eddie Durham? It even seems to shift into "One O'Clock Jump."

Track #8 is definitely "Afro Blue."  Nice work on the drums to open up.  Good groove in a fusion style.  Some of the guitar work reminds me of Scofield.  So It's the Allmans?  I know the band's early work pretty well, and much of it is great.  This is attaining nearly the same level, and it's jazzier. 

Track #9 is old time jazz with R&B flavor.  This is stuff that must have influenced early rock 'n roll. 

My first thought on #10 is that it's very early Ellington. I've heard my share of this stuff, but can't identify the number...if it is Duke.

Track #11 features a locked-in trio, and the pianist shows the influence of Monk and Nichols--maybe a bit of Oscar Peterson too.  I don't know who's doing this, but it's very engaging--my favorite track on the BFT. \

Overall, an interesting and certainly diverse set of tunes.

Edited by Milestones

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1 hour ago, Milestones said:

Track #8 is definitely "Afro Blue."  Nice work on the drums to open up.  Good groove in a fusion style.  Some of the guitar work reminds me of Scofield.  So It's the Allmans?  I know the band's early work pretty well, and much of it is great.  This is attaining nearly the same level, and it's jazzier. 

The entry of Warren Haynes in the late 80's (via Dickey Betts) immediately inspired the band to heights they had not hit since 'Eat a Peach", and they stayed there the rest of their career.  Derek Trucks replaced Betts some years later, and they didn't miss a beat.   1972-1987 was just sort of a bad dream for them.  Haynes's Gov't Mule side project is also well worth checking out.  He's an incredible guitarist and a more than good singer.

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2 hours ago, Milestones said:

Track #2 features a pianist with a nice touch, though the approach does not seem very adventurous.  A lot of possibilities here; I would not hazard a guess. 

I like this one, but it's certainly not a masterpiece, and maybe a little anonymous. It might be more interesting after the fact - when people know who it it.

Track #3 is an odd one.  It's like 1950's Miles coming out of one channel and 60's/70's avant garde out of the other, with no attempt to meet one another. 

I know where you're coming from, although I don't quite agree. It's a kind of improvisation where the musicians are going in the same general direction, but on parallel paths.

Track #5 sounds like Sonny Rollins in a trio setting, though probably not--it could be a very good imitator.  The drummer could well be Elvin Jones, though he seems to have a lighter touch.

It's not Sonny, although I was fairly certain that someone would think it was. The drummer is indeed Elvin Jones, so you get a point there. I like this track very much - it jumped out at me when I played this album recently.

Track #6 is an alto?  Not sure.  It has a Classical music feel, not that your hear sax (spotlighted) over there.  No guess.

It is indeed an alto saxophone.

Tracks #7 sounds a lot like Basie, though the guitar solo threw me--Eddie Durham? It even seems to shift into "One O'Clock Jump."

Basie indeed, but not with his band. As medjuck said earlier, it's the Metronome All Star band from 1941. For folks who might not know, it's the winners, or as many as could make the record date, from Metronome magazine's annual jazz poll. They recorded a charity record (with a few gaps) from 1939 to 1956. Charlie Christian is the guitarist on this one.

Track #8 is definitely "Afro Blue."  Nice work on the drums to open up.  Good groove in a fusion style.  Some of the guitar work reminds me of Scofield.  So It's the Allmans?  I know the band's early work pretty well, and much of it is great.  This is attaining nearly the same level, and it's jazzier. 

Yes, Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks were a formidable guitar team. The drummer is a guest, as I said earlier. I'll be interested to see if anyone identifies him.

Track #9 is old time jazz with R&B flavor.  This is stuff that must have influenced early rock 'n roll. 

Definite R & B flavor. It might be slightly later than you're thinking. This is the one "so rare that it's unfair" track that I included this time around.

My first thought on #10 is that it's very early Ellington. I've heard my share of this stuff, but can't identify the number...if it is Duke.

Early stuff, but not Ellington.

Track #11 features a locked-in trio, and the pianist shows the influence of Monk and Nichols--maybe a bit of Oscar Peterson too.  I don't know who's doing this, but it's very engaging--my favorite track on the BFT. \

Yes, this is very interesting and creative playing.

Overall, an interesting and certainly diverse set of tunes.

Thank you.

 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/1/2019 at 4:55 PM, felser said:

#8 has to be a live recording of the Warren Haynes/Derek Trucks version Allman Brothers doing "Afro-Blue", doesn't it?   I know Trucks loves the song, and I don't think Betts and Trucks ever played together in the group - Haynes was the common denominator on guitar. 

Since there has been a fair amount of Allman Brothers discussion in this thread, I'll throw in a correction. Dickey Betts and Derek Trucks did play together in the ABB for a short time when Trucks first joined the band. (Haynes had left to form Gov't Mule.) There's even an album - Peakin' at the Beacon, recorded at the Beacon Theatre in March, 2000. This was when Betts was getting more and more erratic and his playing getting sloppier; his Beacon performances were so bad that they led the other founding members to disinvite him from the spring/summer tour. Jimmy Herring filled in for a short time, then Warren Haynes came back to complete the final lineup of the band.

Peakin' at the Beacon is so bad that I once wondered why the band released it. Not only are Betts' solos substandard, but he is unable to play some of the ensemble parts correctly - parts he must have played thousands of times. I think the album is the band's explanation to the fans of why they let Dickey go: "This is what we were dealing with."

Edited by jeffcrom

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Small window for a small response, sorry...

TRACK ONE - Little tenor, no madness, just sweebop! https://www.discogs.com/Kenny-Clarke-And-His-52nd-Street-Boys-52nd-Street-Theme-Rue-Chaptal-Royal-Roost/release/5386170

TRACK TWO - Is the song "You'll Never Know"? I like the tempo and the way it stays there. Like Monk in that regard, but his is not Monk. I guess I'll never know...

TRACK THREE - Oh, THAT'S nice! Bowie & Tchichai? No? If not, one or the other? I do like it! That drummer got it. Trumpet sounds less like Bowie as the piece develops, and no, probably not Bowie. Still like it, a lot.

TRACK FOUR - Bechet totally kicking ass. Excuse the redundancy.

TRACK FIVE - Yusef (that sound!) & Elvin (that time!). Yonder be some playin', matie, full speed ahead!

TRACK SIX - Braxton, almost surely? That narrows it down, right? :g

TRACK SEVEN - I love shit that sounds like an ass purposely wiggling. This does that, so I love it.

TRACK EIGHT - Not to my taste, but everybody plays well enough.

TRACK NINE - Gator? Whoever it is knows how that shit works form the ground up. No fadcadism going on here.

TRACK TEN - Is that a bass/contrabass sax on the bottom, or a priapic kazzoo? AND a tuba? I don't know enough to have an informed opinion, so all I can say with certainty that if I'm not going to like it, it would take a while to get there.Right now, it entertains me!

TRACK ELEVEN - Liking that drummer! Eccentric piano...eccentric but informed! Eddie Costa? The way he's playing those low octaves pouts me in mind of him, but I've heard him in bits and pieces, never really on a sustained basis. But did he live long enough for somebody to let him make a record like this (no, I don't think he did) , and are we instead getting out of America? I like the bits and pieces of it, as a whole...maybe not quite as much...at what point am I supposed to stop being impressed and just start digging?

TRACK TWELVE - that alto player puts me in mind of The Treniers, but not the vocal, not at all. No matter, that's badass, all of it. I can hear this being something that Cleanhead did with somebody, somewhere.There was a time when I'd have this figured out, but I'm afraid that time has passed. Oh well, besides, it's a groove!

The whole thing was a groove, pretty much. Wish I had more time, but life is short, time is only there until it's not, so....onward!

 

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1 hour ago, jeffcrom said:

Since there has been a fair amount of Allman Brothers discussion in this thread, I'll throw in a correction. Dickey Betts and Derek Trucks did play together in the ABB for a short time when Trucks first joined the band. (Haynes had left to form Gov't Mule.) There's even an album - Peakin' at the Beacon, recorded at the Beacon Theatre in March, 2000. This was when Betts was getting more and more erratic and his playing getting sloppier; his Beacon performances were so bad that they led the other founding members to disinvite him from the spring/summer tour. Jimmy Herring filled in for a short time, then Warren Haynes came back to complete the final lineup of the band.

Peakin' at the Beacon is so bad that I once wondered why the band released it. Not only are Betts' solos substandard, but he is unable to play some of the ensemble parts correctly - parts he must have played thousands of times. I think the album is the band's explanation to the fans of why they let Dickey go: "This is what we were dealing with."

Thanks for the clarification.  Haynes and Trucks, to my ears, are very tight playing together.

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3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Small window for a small response, sorry...

TRACK ONE - Little tenor, no madness, just sweebop! https://www.discogs.com/Kenny-Clarke-And-His-52nd-Street-Boys-52nd-Street-Theme-Rue-Chaptal-Royal-Roost/release/5386170

Bam! Target hit!

TRACK TWO - Is the song "You'll Never Know"? I like the tempo and the way it stays there. Like Monk in that regard, but his is not Monk. I guess I'll never know...

You got the song.

TRACK THREE - Oh, THAT'S nice! Bowie & Tchichai? No? If not, one or the other? I do like it! That drummer got it. Trumpet sounds less like Bowie as the piece develops, and no, probably not Bowie. Still like it, a lot.

IDs are not correct, but I'm glad you like the recording.

TRACK FOUR - Bechet totally kicking ass. Excuse the redundancy.

Bechet was always packing, for sure.

TRACK FIVE - Yusef (that sound!) & Elvin (that time!). Yonder be some playin', matie, full speed ahead!

Nicely done.

TRACK SIX - Braxton, almost surely? That narrows it down, right? :g

Braxton indeed. Didn't really expect anyone to narrow it down the album or track; just wanted folks to hear this aspect of his playing.

TRACK SEVEN - I love shit that sounds like an ass purposely wiggling. This does that, so I love it.

More info above.

TRACK EIGHT - Not to my taste, but everybody plays well enough.

The folks who like this band found this one pretty intriguing. Everyone else is not likely to like it much.

TRACK NINE - Gator? Whoever it is knows how that shit works form the ground up. No fadcadism going on here.

Not Gator. A real rarity which may surprise some folks.

TRACK TEN - Is that a bass/contrabass sax on the bottom, or a priapic kazzoo? AND a tuba? I don't know enough to have an informed opinion, so all I can say with certainty that if I'm not going to like it, it would take a while to get there.Right now, it entertains me!

Your middle guess as to the bass instrument(s) is not correct, but is closest.

TRACK ELEVEN - Liking that drummer! Eccentric piano...eccentric but informed! Eddie Costa? The way he's playing those low octaves pouts me in mind of him, but I've heard him in bits and pieces, never really on a sustained basis. But did he live long enough for somebody to let him make a record like this (no, I don't think he did) , and are we instead getting out of America? I like the bits and pieces of it, as a whole...maybe not quite as much...at what point am I supposed to stop being impressed and just start digging?

Another target falls! It is indeed Eddie Costa.

TRACK TWELVE - that alto player puts me in mind of The Treniers, but not the vocal, not at all. No matter, that's badass, all of it. I can hear this being something that Cleanhead did with somebody, somewhere.There was a time when I'd have this figured out, but I'm afraid that time has passed. Oh well, besides, it's a groove!

Cleanhead is a reasonable guess, considering, but no. I will resist the temptation to reveal more right now.

The whole thing was a groove, pretty much. Wish I had more time, but life is short, time is only there until it's not, so....onward!

Pretty good shooting, there, overall.

 

 

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Is the Eddie Costa cut from that Dot record? House Of Blue Lights, I think it was?

and #12...is that a, uh...band of peoples who might have come to the blues consciously more than waking up to find the blues already there? Somethings about the vocal and the organ have me asking this question, and asking because I really could see that one going either/both way/ways.

is that you on #3?

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Is the Eddie Costa cut from that Dot record? House Of Blue Lights, I think it was?

Yes, from House of Blue Lights.

and #12...is that a, uh...band of peoples who might have come to the blues consciously more than waking up to find the blues already there? Somethings about the vocal and the organ have me asking this question, and asking because I really could see that one going either/both way/ways.

This is an eclectic gathering of individuals from different backgrounds and varying relationships to the blues.

is that you on #3?

No. One of our members here is connected to this recording, though.

 

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Ok, let me ask one more question about #12 - the singer, as I hear it, is doing a pretty good Sonny Boy Williamson imitation. But there are fleeting moments where it does indeed appear to be an imitation. So...behind that mask, how big of a journey would the individual likely had to have made to be able to do such a good imitation?

My question is entirely socio-curious. I dig the cut a lot. It reminds me of a lot of, like, earliest Butterfield or Charlie Musselwhite, where both the sincerity and the slight "otherness" work with and not against each other. Sounds a bit like that happening here, although, hey, what do I know?

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Also, can't access the file from work, but iirc, it's a combo organ on 12, not a B-3?

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4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Ok, let me ask one more question about #12 - the singer, as I hear it, is doing a pretty good Sonny Boy Williamson imitation. But there are fleeting moments where it does indeed appear to be an imitation. So...behind that mask, how big of a journey would the individual likely had to have made to be able to do such a good imitation?

My question is entirely socio-curious. I dig the cut a lot. It reminds me of a lot of, like, earliest Butterfield or Charlie Musselwhite, where both the sincerity and the slight "otherness" work with and not against each other. Sounds a bit like that happening here, although, hey, what do I know?

Um, I'd say that it's beyond a good Sonny Boy Williamson imitation. Like, the best possible. Literally.

And yes, the organ sounds like a Vox or some other combo organ to me.

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So it IS Sonny Boy (I guess he got hoarse or something)!  Playing with a rock band, or something resembling one in its own world. But that's neither the Yardbirds nor the Animals, right? And that alto player sounds very..."indigenous".

Impressive stumping selection!

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2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

It does, but pretty serious case of the whole being less than the sum of the parts.  And they couldn't even get the song title right.

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I think it's the perfect sum of those particular parts, could have been a lot worse, could not have been better for that time/place/peoples.

You put Sonny Boy into any mix, and right away, possible outcomes are pretty clearly set in stone. If you want better than this, gonna have to change the pieces, up to and including Sonny Boy. But if/when you did that, then whattya get? A John Mayall record?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

But no matter - JOE HARRIOT!!!!

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6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I think it's the perfect sum of those particular parts, could have been a lot worse, could not have been better for that time/place/peoples.

You put Sonny Boy into any mix, and right away, possible outcomes are pretty clearly set in stone. If you want better than this, gonna have to change the pieces, up to and including Sonny Boy. But if/when you did that, then whattya get? A John Mayall record?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

But no matter - JOE HARRIOT!!!!

This session is pretty much a mess, but it's kind of a glorious mess. I included what I think is the best selection. Some of the other tracks really sound unfinished. But I love anything with Sonny Boy, and have always enjoyed Joe Harriot just going for it on this track.

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Listened to the whole album on youtube, and yes, glorious mess. didn't bother me at all, actually (well, Skidmore was kinda superfulous, but oh well). I've played (and I bet you have too) in enough "local" (i.e. amateur and neighborhood and SO not in it for ANY money) blues bands that have been every bit this messy and every bit this glorious. The only difference is that those messes had a different accent than these do.

As somebody who gleefully and scornfully LOLs when somebody from someplace else tells me that we "talk funny down here", far be it from me to prioritize the accent before the glory.

ESPECIALLY when it comes to messes!

There are toenails to be clipped, how can there NOT be messes?

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