BFT #83 Discussion

[king ubu]

So, the link's been out there for a while, has seen more than two dozen downloads so far (more takers are of course welcome - check the sing-up thread for details). Time to start the discussion then...

There's no theme to this compilation, it's merely a selection of more or less obscure stuff (and some less so) that I enjoy and that I wanted to spread word about. As always, I'd be most interested to read some impressions, thoughts, reflections etc about your immediate reactions to the music - what do you like, what not, why? But if you're just in for the guessing game (good luck!), that's fine, too... I'll try and follow this thread regularly and post some replies whenever I have to add anything!

Thanks in advance for your participation!

[BillF]

This is my first BFT and I'd better say at the outset that it's been as much an exercise in searching for information as of musical knowledge. Particularly helpful have been Amazon's lists of albums and tracks, as well as Cook and Morton's guide. That said, I'm still left with little more than guesswork for about half of the tracks. So, here goes:

1. I think this is Marion Brown playing Duke Ellington's "Black and Tan Fantasy". I started by recognizing the tune and that it was played by an avant-garde altoist and then found from Ubu's blog that Marion Brown had recorded "B&TF". Hope this won't be seen as cheating of the worst sort! Nice to hear a tune from the 1920s played by someone from the other end of jazz!

2. Piano, guitar, muted trumpet and bass, recorded in the 1940s. All very boppish, with possible influence from the Nat King Cole Trio and Fats Navarro. Can't say any more than that.

3. I think this is Tony Fruscella playing "Blue Lester". I know the tune and Fruscella's sound and found this track on one of his albums.

4. This is Lee Wiley singing "Street of Dreams". First of all I thought it might be Mildred Bailey. Google did the rest, taking me to a YouTube clip of this track.

5. This is Jack Teagarden playing and singing "In a Litte Waterfront Café" with a string orchestra from his album Think Well of Me (1962). This is the only artist I recognized straight away. Cook and Morton did the rest.

6. "I Cover the Waterfront" recorded live by a big-toned, bop-influenced tenor whose sound reminds me a little of Roland Kirk. Can't say any more.

7. Tenor, bass, drums recorded fairly recently, judging by the quality of the sound. Very high level of instrumental proficiency from bassist. No idea who they are.

8. Trumpet or flugelhorn, alto, piano, bass, drums. Recent. A lot collective improvisation. No idea who it is.

9. Avant-garde influenced tenor (reminds me of Shepp or George Adams) and similar trumpet in a big band setting which is surprisingly conventional as regards arrangement and voicings.

10. Guessed this might be Albert Ayler and Amazon samples suggest it is. When Ayler first emerged in the mid-sixties, I decided his music wasn't for me and haven't listened to it until this BFT. I now recognize it as amazingly powerful and I think exposure over the years to the many tenormen who have taken aspects of his sound has made it easier for me to get his message now. (Hope after all that, this isn't someone else!)

11. Trio of alto, bass and drums. Free form? Well, I can't detect any chord sequence!

12. Sounds like the early beginnings of big band jazz. I'd say this was Fletcher Henderson around 1928. Some great "hot" soloists! Trumpet swings like mad!

13. Piano/guitar duo playing "Poinciana". Boppish: perhaps recorded 1950s.

14. Solo soulful piano, recorded fairly recently. Gospel-ish melody. Gently swinging - nice! Of the usual suspects (Ray Bryant, Ramsey Lewis, etc), I'll plump for Junior Mance.

15. This is a fairly recent recording of what I call "comic" dixieland, of the sort popularized by the Firehouse Five and heard on the soundtrack of Woody Allen's The Sleeper. As this is Ubu's BFT, could this be a Swiss band?

[NIS]

Only one listen but I'm logged in, so one quick comment.

I don't usually make guesses but the last track has to be the Willem Breuker Kollektief, no? Rousing final track in any event.

I'll be back. Thanks for the BFT.

[king ubu]

Only one listen but I'm logged in, so one quick comment.

I don't usually make guesses but the last track has to be the Willem Breuker Kollektief, no? Rousing final track in any event.

I'll be back. Thanks for the BFT.

No, it's not... but I see why you'd think that, of course!

[king ubu]

NOTE: I'm not able to have 15 quotes in a post - why is that? These technical limitations are getting a bit silly, really!

This is my first BFT and I'd better say at the outset that it's been as much an exercise in searching for information as of musical knowledge. Particularly helpful have been Amazon's lists of albums and tracks, as well as Cook and Morton's guide. That said, I'm still left with little more than guesswork for about half of the tracks. So, here goes:

Gee, Bill, you're way too good at this!

1. I think this is Marion Brown playing Duke Ellington's "Black and Tan Fantasy". I started by recognizing the tune and that it was played by an avant-garde altoist and then found from Ubu's blog that Marion Brown had recorded "B&TF". Hope this won't be seen as cheating of the worst sort! Nice to hear a tune from the 1920s played by someone from the other end of jazz!

100 points! A tiny bit of cheating, but there you go...

2. Piano, guitar, muted trumpet and bass, recorded in the 1940s. All very boppish, with possible influence from the Nat King Cole Trio and Fats Navarro. Can't say any more than that.

Yeah, it's from those most interesting middle grounds between swing and modern... Cole came from there, too... I'm particularly fond of the trumpet!

3. I think this is Tony Fruscella playing "Blue Lester". I know the tune and Fruscella's sound and found this track on one of his albums.

Smack dab in the middle!

It's on the rarest of discs... thanks to brownie I got that one. More later on, of course!

4. This is Lee Wiley singing "Street of Dreams". First of all I thought it might be Mildred Bailey. Google did the rest, taking me to a YouTube clip of this track.

This is an easy one, of course! But I needed to have her in! Of my favorite singers (Billie, Anita, Helen Merrill, June Christy, Chris Connor, Jeanne Lee, Sheila Jordan...) she's the most elusive and it seems to me most forgotten... and ain't the trumpet beautiful?

5. This is Jack Teagarden playing and singing "In a Litte Waterfront Café" with a string orchestra from his album Think Well of Me (1962). This is the only artist I recognized straight away. Cook and Morton did the rest.

Yup - another easy one. I love that album so much... first I wanted to include "Don't Smoke in Bed" but I wanted to get both the singer AND the trombonist, hence this one got in.

6. "I Cover the Waterfront" recorded live by a big-toned, bop-influenced tenor whose sound reminds me a little of Roland Kirk. Can't say any more.

See, on the waterfront we stay...

7. Tenor, bass, drums recorded fairly recently, judging by the quality of the sound. Very high level of instrumental proficiency from bassist. No idea who they are.

It's alto, fairly recently... not quite, but yes, depending on how you look at it.

8. Trumpet or flugelhorn, alto, piano, bass, drums. Recent. A lot collective improvisation. No idea who it is.

A decade older than #7

9. Avant-garde influenced tenor (reminds me of Shepp or George Adams) and similar trumpet in a big band setting which is surprisingly conventional as regards arrangement and voicings.

Again alto - but the guttural and heavy sound may make this a bit tenor-like (not to me though as I've been enamored with this player for a while). Similar trumpet indeed... can't give too many hints yet, though!

10. Guessed this might be Albert Ayler and Amazon samples suggest it is. When Ayler first emerged in the mid-sixties, I decided his music wasn't for me and haven't listened to it until this BFT. I now recognize it as amazingly powerful and I think exposure over the years to the many tenormen who have taken aspects of his sound has made it easier for me to get his message now. (Hope after all that, this isn't someone else!)

Huh? Not really... and once again this is alto sax!

But powerful it is! If you like this, you might as well enjoy Ayler, too! (I've been on an Ayler binge in the past weeks, would be glad to give some hints!)

11. Trio of alto, bass and drums. Free form? Well, I can't detect any chord sequence!

Free form indeed - and this time it's an alto, too!

12. Sounds like the early beginnings of big band jazz. I'd say this was Fletcher Henderson around 1928. Some great "hot" soloists! Trumpet swings like mad!

Not Fletcher, but the year is off by just one... ain't that trumpet great!?! Yowzah!

13. Piano/guitar duo playing "Poinciana". Boppish: perhaps recorded 1950s.

Elusive stuff... I've not been able to find a recording date for this one, even!

14. Solo soulful piano, recorded fairly recently. Gospel-ish melody. Gently swinging - nice! Of the usual suspects (Ray Bryant, Ramsey Lewis, etc), I'll plump for Junior Mance.

You're way off her! But then not so, after all...

15. This is a fairly recent recording of what I call "comic" dixieland, of the sort popularized by the Firehouse Five and heard on the soundtrack of Woody Allen's The Sleeper. As this is Ubu's BFT, could this be a Swiss band?

No Swiss involved or harmed in this one... no connection to Woody Allen, either!

Thanks your reply, Bill! Enjoyed reading the comments!

[RDK]

Only one listen so far, but I'm really digging most of it. Will supply some guesses soon.

[brownie]

Even if I tend to keep away from blindfold tests these days, I knew that Ubu's one would be worth paying attention to. Told him I would not post much on it. So here goes...

1- A Black and Tan alto solo. I knew that Marion Brown had recorded it that way but I had never heard it. A rather iconoclastic but quite respectful interpretation. Very moving.

2- A drummerless trumpet-piano-guitar and bass quartet most probably from the mid-40s. The trumpetist has listened to the developments brought in by Dizzy. Will be interested to find out his identity (the other players as well!)

3- On familiar ground with this Fruscella-DiNovi recorded at Gene DiNovi's house.

Fruscella's sound is unique and each of his recorded statement deserves to be listened.

I had trouble purchasing this rare CD from Japan. Not very long after I finally managed to obtain it, got it, another copy surfaced in a Paris store. It was shipped to Switzerland in no time. That's the one that Ubu used;

4- One of my favorite singer! The ever sensual Lee Wiley! Evocative interpretation of 'Street of Dreams' with the impeccable Bobby Hackett. A musician I rank at the top after neglecting him for way too long

5- Another favorite: Jack Teagarden. I had listened to the vinyl of this Verve LP a couple of weeks before receiving the BFT so had no trouble the identification of this track. Great idea to have Lee Wiley succeeded by Teagardan. Those two go together!

6- I am stuck on the waterfront with this intense tenor from the Dexter school!

Sounds like this comes from an European boot.

7- was more impressed by the effervscent sound of the alto than by the brass solo. Missed the point of his intervention

8- good quintet side by musicians (CrissCross sessions habitués?)

9- not familiar with this either.

Intrigued by the alto player (very much to my liking). He does not seem to enter into the list of musicians I am familiar with...

The pyrotechnics of the trumpet player bothered me at first listen but I may accept that after more spinning of that side (like it took me a long time before accepting Charlie Shavers' improvisations).

Liked that one!

10- AEC derivatives?

11- another alto, bass; drums trio.

Liked this (as well as track 10)! Very coherent music to my ears!

12- The very distinctive sound of Higginbotham and Charlie Holmes were the giveaway for me on that one. Henry Allen's ever inspired playing clinched this. Luis Russell's 1929 band playing 'Doctor Blues'. One of the best bands from its time. No wonder Louis Armstrong took over the full orchestra to make it his own.

13- No Jamal on this Poinciana. It did not do much for me!

14- liked that piano player. Pretty individual stylist. Another one I will be curious to know his (or her) name. Are these variations on 'Tennessee Waltz'?

15- Very nice way to end a Blindfold Test. Who dat?

Many thanks Ubu for inviting me to the party

[king ubu]

Even if I tend to keep away from blindfold tests these days, I knew that Ubu's one would be worth paying attention to. Told him I would not post much on it. So here goes...

Thank you! Will write my answers in red, as I can't have such a long number of quotes in here...

1- A Black and Tan alto solo. I knew that Marion Brown had recorded it that way but I had never heard it. A rather iconoclastic but quite respectful interpretation. Very moving.

Yes, very moving! That's my feeling about this performance... how he thins out the theme towards the end... love it!

2- A drummerless trumpet-piano-guitar and bass quartet most probably from the mid-40s. The trumpetist has listened to the developments brought in by Dizzy. Will be interested to find out his identity (the other players as well!)

You will! I wonder if anyone will recognize this one, but odds aren't that good with you and BillF already through... though you might try again?

3- On familiar ground with this Fruscella-DiNovi recorded at Gene DiNovi's house.

Fruscella's sound is unique and each of his recorded statement deserves to be listened.

I had trouble purchasing this rare CD from Japan. Not very long after I finally managed to obtain it, got it, another copy surfaced in a Paris store. It was shipped to Switzerland in no time. That's the one that Ubu used;

Yes indeed! Thanks so much for this one!

Seems nowadays it's rather easy to find, as Gene DiNovi is selling it on his website!

It's the perfect companion to Definitive/Jazz Factory's essential 4CD set by Fru!

4- One of my favorite singer! The ever sensual Lee Wiley! Evocative interpretation of 'Street of Dreams' with the impeccable Bobby Hackett. A musician I rank at the top after neglecting him for way too long

Is the Hackett Mosaic worth going for?

5- Another favorite: Jack Teagarden. I had listened to the vinyl of this Verve LP a couple of weeks before receiving the BFT so had no trouble the identification of this track. Great idea to have Lee Wiley succeeded by Teagardan. Those two go together!

Thanks! I like how the programming at the beginning of my compilation builds slowly... only to really catch fire later one... isn't Tea the best?! I fell in love with "Think Well of Me" instantly - his singing and his trombone playing are just perfect together!

6- I am stuck on the waterfront with this intense tenor from the Dexter school!

Sounds like this comes from an European boot.

It's not a boot, but certainly not recorded under ideal conditions

This guy is way too obscure and died way too early, too...

7- was more impressed by the effervscent sound of the alto than by the brass solo. Missed the point of his intervention

The alto is burning! This release came as a big and very delightful surprise to me! Oh, and I do love the bass player (though he's played better elsewhere, but not with this alto player I wanted to have in!)

8- good quintet side by musicians (CrissCross sessions habitués?)

No Criss Cross... this is somewhat earlier.

9- not familiar with this either.

Intrigued by the alto player (very much to my liking). He does not seem to enter into the list of musicians I am familiar with...

The pyrotechnics of the trumpet player bothered me at first listen but I may accept that after more spinning of that side (like it took me a long time before accepting Charlie Shavers' improvisations).

Liked that one!

More burnin' alto, indeed! With my first selections (about two discs full of music) I was afraid I might end up with tenor after tenor after tenor... instead I ended up with some fine alto players! And a few tenors, too...

10- AEC derivatives?

Rather contemporaries from another corner...

11- another alto, bass; drums trio.

Liked this (as well as track 10)! Very coherent music to my ears!

Yeah! I guess you have this...

12- The very distinctive sound of Higginbotham and Charlie Holmes were the giveaway for me on that one. Henry Allen's ever inspired playing clinched this. Luis Russell's 1929 band playing 'Doctor Blues'. One of the best bands from its time. No wonder Louis Armstrong took over the full orchestra to make it his own.

Yowzah! I expected you'd recognize this one! The joy and surging power, the infectuous swing of this music has struck me like lightning when I first heard it, a couple of years ago! Allen's taking chances - the liners mention at least two "wrong" notes in his solo here - one I'm quite sure I hear, early on in his solo at the end of the number... by-products of his exuberance... and he made it all work! Amazing!

13- No Jamal on this Poinciana. It did not do much for me!

No Jamal indeed... put this in for the unknown guitar player. Not that the pianist is much better known.

14- liked that piano player. Pretty individual stylist. Another one I will be curious to know his (or her) name. Are these variations on 'Tennessee Waltz'?

Yes indeed, it's "Tennessee Waltz" we're hearing! I *love* Sam Moore's version, but that one would have been out of place in here... this ain't no bad a substitue, methinks! It's anachronistic on so many levels, I just love it! Comes from a wonderful, wonderful disc! (Which I'd be surprised to hear you don't own yet!)

15- Very nice way to end a Blindfold Test. Who dat?

Well, you'll find out soon, I guess...

Many thanks Ubu for inviting me to the party

My pleasure! Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your thoughts about the music!

This whole part of reading about people's reactions makes these BFTs a very satisfying thing!

[brownie]

Is the Hackett Mosaic worth going for?

It's rather different from the usual jazz sets released by Mosaic.

I did not go for it because I already have several of the albums that were included in the box. Have turned lately to relisten to them and

enjoying the music much more than when I purchased them.

Nowadays I understand why Miles Davis was a big fan of Hackett!

[king ubu]

Is the Hackett Mosaic worth going for?

It's rather different from the usual jazz sets released by Mosaic.

I did not go for it because I already have several of the albums that were included in the box. Have turned lately to relisten to them and

enjoying the music much more than when I purchased them.

Nowadays I understand why Miles Davis was a big fan of Hackett!

Ok, I guess that's enough of an endorsement to get it whenever it'll be running low... I've been unsure if or if not to put it on the list, but I've got none of the music that's included!

[Jim R]

Just found some time to listen last night, and although much of the music is outside the realm of what is familiar for me, it's all interesting and well-chosen.

I was just listening again to track 2, and the run played by the guitarist at the end of his solo has me wondering if the player here might be Arv Garrison. With Howard McGhee, perhaps?

[king ubu]

Just found some time to listen last night, and although much of the music is outside the realm of what is familiar for me, it's all interesting and well-chosen.

I was just listening again to track 2, and the run played by the guitarist at the end of his solo has me wondering if the player here might be Arv Garrison. With Howard McGhee, perhaps?

Glad you enjoyed it!

Not Arvin Garrison nor McGhee though... don't know more about the guitarist there other than his name.

[Spontooneous]

I should be shoveling snow, but instead, let's see if I can bang out a whole BFT in one morning...

1. Black and Tan Fantasy, by an alto player in a tile bathroom. The spirit of Hodges shakes hands with the spirit of Ornette, and I like that. The dropped bars don't matter. The chorus starting about 3:30 is especially beautiful.

2. Hey, kids, let's see how many hep bebop licks we can cram into one chorus! There's probably some King Cole Trio gestures in there too. It's over-arranged but cute. No idea who it is.

3. Don't care for the head, but wow! Maybe a home recording of Kenny Dorham?

4. I've always liked "Street of Dreams" but can't recall hearing the verse before. Now I know why. It's so awkward, musically and lyrically! The singer does what she can with it, and it gets conspicuously better once we hit the chorus. Still, the whole performance doesn't live up to the promise of the opening trumpet solo, and the celesta ending is overkill. I'm curious about the singer and the trumpet.

5. Teagarden with strings. This is how it's done, folks. The arranger ups the ante by writing impossible parts, and the badass studio string players make it work. Big Tea doesn't let them down. Check out some of the harp figures behind him. The trumpet ain't bad either.

6. Grab a folding chair down at the VFW hall and listen to "I Cover the Waterfront." The tenor reminds me of Stanley Turrentine when he isn't reminding me of Jimmy Heath. The bass and drums seem a little overenthusiastic at times. But even the mistuned ensemble at the end can't sink the tenor. Yeah!

7. There's something naggingly familiar about this head. Tenor starts out just OK but picks up momentum very well. Is it Shepp? The bass-and-drums episode has some nice spontaneous architecture; love the bassist's dialogue with himself.

8. Good writing, good playing from all. I didn't see that coda coming. Whatever it is, I want to buy a copy, now.

9. Edgy, crackling alto in a brassy setting. Then a Lester Bowie-like trumpet obsessed with getting the most out of one figure. Avant guys showing where they came from? No dishonor for the old or the new here. This is maybe my favorite track on the BFT.

10. The trumpeter's vibrato is cute, but I'm happy when he drops it. The bassist gets better and better as it goes on. Alto is OK. I appreciate the concision of the drum solo. No idea who it is.

11. Alto has energy and effects, but some stronger ideas would be nice. OK, but this isn't working for me today.

12. Set the Wayback Machine for 1931! A pretty good side, maybe not a distinguished one. Don Redman, maybe? The ensemble might be more noteworthy than the solos. Hate to say it, but today this seems much less corny than track 11.

13. A "Poinciana" that seems unnecessarily convoluted next to the Jamal version. Cutesy coda.

14. "Tennessee Waltz" is the tune. Is that Jay McShann?

15. "Union Special," Brotherhood of Breath. Presumably a sendup of the crappy music played on union gigs? It was disconcerting the first time I heard it years ago at the end of that album, but the second time it was funny, and now it's even funnier every time.

This is a good time, Ubu, and it's going to send me searching for more discs!

Edited February 4, 2011 by Spontooneous

[king ubu]

I should be shoveling snow, but instead, let's see if I can bang out a whole BFT in one morning...

Thanks a lot for your replies! Again, I'll write into your notes in a different cover...

1. Black and Tan Fantasy, by an alto player in a tile bathroom. The spirit of Hodges shakes hands with the spirit of Ornette, and I like that. The dropped bars don't matter. The chorus starting about 3:30 is especially beautiful.

That's a nice description about Ornette and Hodges! It was recorded in a rather high-profile location - but obviously far from "professinally"...

2. Hey, kids, let's see how many hep bebop licks we can cram into one chorus! There's probably some King Cole Trio gestures in there too. It's over-arranged but cute. No idea who it is.

Yes, I kinda liked it for various reasons, one of them being the cutesy arranging touches and the piano...

3. Don't care for the head, but wow! Maybe a home recording of Kenny Dorham?

Not KD, but in several respects not too wrong...

4. I've always liked "Street of Dreams" but can't recall hearing the verse before. Now I know why. It's so awkward, musically and lyrically! The singer does what she can with it, and it gets conspicuously better once we hit the chorus. Still, the whole performance doesn't live up to the promise of the opening trumpet solo, and the celesta ending is overkill. I'm curious about the singer and the trumpet.

The singer and trumpet player have been identified, as you've certainly seen by now!

5. Teagarden with strings. This is how it's done, folks. The arranger ups the ante by writing impossible parts, and the badass studio string players make it work. Big Tea doesn't let them down. Check out some of the harp figures behind him. The trumpet ain't bad either.

This is how it's done indeed!

6. Grab a folding chair down at the VFW hall and listen to "I Cover the Waterfront." The tenor reminds me of Stanley Turrentine when he isn't reminding me of Jimmy Heath. The bass and drums seem a little overenthusiastic at times. But even the mistuned ensemble at the end can't sink the tenor. Yeah!

Turrentine is an interesting comparison!

7. There's something naggingly familiar about this head. Tenor starts out just OK but picks up momentum very well. Is it Shepp? The bass-and-drums episode has some nice spontaneous architecture; love the bassist's dialogue with himself.

Not Shepp, but an alto player - a heavy one, though! And yes, the bassist is great, isn't he?

8. Good writing, good playing from all. I didn't see that coda coming. Whatever it is, I want to buy a copy, now.

That shall be rather difficult... (it's of course from a commercial recording, but it took me a while to find a copy for a halfway normal price... very nice album!)

9. Edgy, crackling alto in a brassy setting. Then a Lester Bowie-like trumpet obsessed with getting the most out of one figure. Avant guys showing where they came from? No dishonor for the old or the new here. This is maybe my favorite track on the BFT.

Glad you enjoy it that much! This one is easier to obtain if you feel like... I love the mix of tradition and free playing, the rootsiness, the fun they put into it... and I adore the alto!

10. The trumpeter's vibrato is cute, but I'm happy when he drops it. The bassist gets better and better as it goes on. Alto is OK. I appreciate the concision of the drum solo. No idea who it is.

Yeah... this one's a true rarity!

11. Alto has energy and effects, but some stronger ideas would be nice. OK, but this isn't working for me today.

Well, maybe tomorrow... turned out I had plenty of good and rather heavy alto players in here - and of course I do like this one, too!

12. Set the Wayback Machine for 1931! A pretty good side, maybe not a distinguished one. Don Redman, maybe? The ensemble might be more noteworthy than the solos. Hate to say it, but today this seems much less corny than track 11.

Not Don Redman, not 1931 (but that's pretty close)... and yes, the free-wheeling swing this group boosts remains fresh and engaging, doesn't it?

13. A "Poinciana" that seems unnecessarily convoluted next to the Jamal version. Cutesy coda.

14. "Tennessee Waltz" is the tune. Is that Jay McShann?

Yes on the tune, no on McShann... wrong direction!

15. "Union Special," Brotherhood of Breath. Presumably a sendup of the crappy music played on union gigs? It was disconcerting the first time I heard it years ago at the end of that album, but the second time it was funny, and now it's even funnier every time.

This is a good time, Ubu, and it's going to send me searching for more discs!

Glad you enjoyed it! And of course #15 is correct! Thought it would made a swell closer!

[NIS]

Only one listen but I'm logged in, so one quick comment.

I don't usually make guesses but the last track has to be the Willem Breuker Kollektief, no? Rousing final track in any event.

I'll be back. Thanks for the BFT.

No, it's not... but I see why you'd think that, of course!

And that's why I usually don't make guesses.

I will be asking you about the Brotherhood of the Breath at the end of the month.

[Spontooneous]

I probably should have said that #15 is here.

[king ubu]

Correct on #15 - great disc!

[BERIGAN]

Ok, no checking anything, or reading the comments. What to maximize my looking stoopid!

Well, I did see the Ellington tune was Black and Tan Fantasy...amazing I couldn't think of the title!

My piss poor guesses on tunes 1-7, hopefully I will get a chance to hear more of the BFT soon, but I remember wondering why folks hadn't already listened to mine, 2-3 hours after it was available!

1) Duke Ellington tune, that the name escapes me at this moment.

Interesting, just 1 guy. Is that an alto, or is he doing something funky on a tenor?? Different mouthpiece??? Sounds a bit melancholy, but nice.

2) Herman Chittison??? Nah, a bit too modern to be him I believe. And too slow. Dodo Marmarosa? Live recording??? Late 40's I would assume. Tiny Grimes on Guitar??? Can't pick out who the trumpeter is. What I do know is I like it!

3)You like melancholy music, don't ya? Like the trumpet player(He is on a trumpet, and not a flugal horn or somethin'? ) Kinda has that slurred valve style of Rex Stewart, but don't think it's him. 50's I assume??? Man, sure is easy to psyche yourself out when you don't know who you are listening to!

4) Lee Wiley! No confusing that voice. Later in her career. Mid 50's or later. Bobby Hackett on Trumpet I assume. Think I have heard Jack Teagarden do this song....Nice!

5)Which fits nicely with this Big T tune! Never heard it before. A bit lush. Not only Teagarden, but the strings as well. Har! Almost too lush, but can't go wrong with Mr. Teagarden. Sounds very late in his career, early 60's then???

6) I Cover the Waterfront. Finally can recall a name of a song. Don't know who is playing, but I bet I will know the name. Wow, not exactly a short tune, is it???

7)I like everything but the horn player...unfortunately he is playing a fair bit! Well, that's not that fair...I guess I like his ideas, more than his sound. Man, I have to say this, usually I don't have to think what instrument someone is playing. I was thinking Soprano, then Alto...I really do like the bassist. The more I hear of this live track, the more I like it...perhaps because I haven't heard the sax player for awhile! Well, he came back(I assume) Liked him more, glad I stuck around for the end of the tune, a good one!

[king ubu]

Interesting comments, Berigan! Thanks a lot!

And yes, the start of the whole set was rather on the slow, melancholy and moody side... that was my intention of course. The smokin' stuff starts with #7 (while #8 is another slow and beautiful one, #14 too) - but most of that will likely be outside your usual listening zone (as your comment to #7 shows - this of course isn't intended as a judgment of values or anything - tastes are different, so are scopes and horizons... and I really wanted to have a broad ranges of stuff on this disc, at the risk that some of the listeners might be bored by the free stuff, others by Wiley and Tea and ... well, you'll hear as you go on with your listening!)

#2 is interesting, huh? Kind of cute, kind of over-arranged, but dig the trumpet! None of the musicians involved have been mentioned (or at least not with regard to this track - hint hint), but it's from "swing-to-bop"-land...

#3 is indeed from the 50s - it's been correctly identified above.

Same for the Lee Wiley and Jack Teagarden cuts - your guesses were correct on both counts (50s with Hackett and late in Big T's career).

The guy on "I Cover the Waterfront"... I guess most you won't even have heard his name, alas!

As for #7, as I said, I didn't expect you to like it - same for #9-11, I think (you might enjoy #9 though), but I don't want to patronize you in any way, please do listen yourself!

Anyway, the chap on #7 is pretty wild and burning, yet always sounds very much in charge and in control of what's going on - very focussed music! That's what I like... the burn and the focus, the wildly swinging quality of it... and the wonderful bass player, too!

Edited February 4, 2011 by king ubu

[relyles]

I am going to have to do this in multiple sittings. Here are my comments on the first seven tracks - typed while listening to them the first time.

1. I am not good identifying titles, but at least I can identify this as an Ellington (or Strayhorn?) tune – “African Flower” maybe? Anyway, the intro by the saxophonist stretches it out a bit to make it sound a little like something else. I can’t identify the saxophonist with any confidence, but Rahsaan comes to mind. Solo saxophone requires a bit of effort by the performer a well as the listener. I enjoyed this. He/she for the most part sticks to the melody of the tune and adds little inflections in the tone here and there that keeps me interested.

2. The sound quality betrays this as an older recording. It has a certain primitive relaxed feel that is appealing. The track was over before I realized it. The trumpeter and pianist did not overwhelm with virtuosity or imagination, but both had an effective feel that worked.

3. This track is somewhat in the same zone as the prior track. Hard to pick between the two tracks, but here the trumpeter seems to tell a bit more of a story in his/her solo – but again with what today I am calling a “primitive relaxed approach” – not intended as an insult. It’s a contrast to the other side of the extroverted trumpeter that I seem to hear more of. The pianist plays some interesting things – not necessarily in support, but more along with the trumpeter.

4. Are we going further back in jazz history here? Good vocalist, but I suspect for it to really resonate with me I would have to hear this under different circumstances than I am currently listening. Another feature for relaxed trumpet work – nice little interlude there.

5. Since the second track we have been a bit outside my usual listening preferences so any perceived lack of excitement over these tracks should keep that in mind. Another trumpeter, but the strings here makes this feel “pleasant” as opposed to relaxed like the prior tracks. It actually gets more interesting once the male vocalist enters. I wish there was more time for me to investigate some of the gaps in my listening experience so that I can enhance my appreciation of tracks like this. For now, I will just have to say it is “nice”, but not something that has the immediate impact of motivating further investigation.

6. We are still dwelling in a certain zone regarding tempo and overall mood, but now we get to hear some heartfelt tenor saxophone. Maybe it is a preference for saxophones, or perhaps we are moving a bit forward on the timeline, but I am enjoying this one a bit more than the previous tracks. The saxophonist sounds like someone that maybe I should know, but there is nothing readily identifiable to me. Very enjoyable track.

7. This immediately got me to refocus as I had drifted a bit and started checking facebook on my cell phone. Sax-bass-drums trio. It is an alto, but it has that rough around the edges tone that I like – someone like Thomas Chapin has that at times. Bass and drums seem locked in. Saxophonist is familiar, but again I am not willing to go out on a limb and commit to anyone in particular – although the previously mentioned Mr. Chapin sounds like a legitimate possibility to me. Very interesting bass solo. Easily my favorite track so far.

[king ubu]

Ronald, thanks for your first bunch of comments!

Not Thomas Chapin on #7 - goes into a similar direction, though! I love that burning intense way of playing alto, combined with a heavy "deep" sound that makes some believe they're hearing a tenor, even!

You'll find more music that's from your preferred period/style as you'll go on with #8... read my comments to Berigan's post just above yours (he only listened up to #7 so far, so you can read those safely, without spoiling the fun!) to see some more thoughts about my intention/scope etc!

[BERIGAN]

pt2, on with the embarrassment!

8)Well, not going to hazard a guess as to whom is playing, or the song title... perfect song for a cold rainy day....won't guess when it was recorded either...that will be interesting on some of these songs....

9)Well, I'm sorry, I guess this would be me least favorite(So far, keep your fingers crossed ) Trumpeter has some interesting ideas...just can't seem to warm up to it.

10)Wait, a new least favorite! Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Bud Freeman...bet they aren't on this track!

11)I don't know if this one would be considered as Avant-garde as the previous two, and I might have had more issues with it if it was the first track, but I can take it, go ahead, laugh at me for not knowing this is Coltrane, or whomever it is.

12)Ah, MUSIC!!! late 20's to perhaps 1932 I'd guess??? Luis Russell band??? JC Higginbothem on Trombone??? Red Allen??? If it is, my idea of Avant-garde(and I know someone said he was the most avant-garde player he was hearin in the 60's)

13)Know the track, but can't think of the title...wait,Poinsettia??? like the guitar work. and the Piano.. late 40's/early 50's????

14) Tennesse Waltz. Very nice version, but haven't a clue who is playing. Someone with a lot of heart and soul. Don't even know why, but I feel like the guy might have played the organ from time to time.

15)Oh no, not another sad song! Nope, quite the opposite. Not quite how you could catagorize it. Fun, different!

Well, speaking of fun, this BFT! It really is a trip to listen to music, not knowing who, when, where, and in the case of track 10, why! :rsmile: Really enjoyed it, thanks for inviting me! Now, to remember about the next one, when it comes up... is there a BFT reminder App?? great, I don't have a phone that apps work with, but great for others...

Edited February 5, 2011 by BERIGAN

[NIS]

I am listening to track 14. I've always liked this song and this piano player seem to me to be really feeling it. Very nice.

I've been listening to the BFT a couple of time and following along with the comments. I do enjoy the differences in opinions. The Jack Teagarden track is certainly not bad music but for me it's kind of a snoozer. On the other side, track 10 is really interesting to me.

There is something for everyone, I think.

[king ubu]

pt2, on with the embarrassment!

Thanks Berigan! Not embarrassing at all what you write!

8)Well, not going to hazard a guess as to whom is playing, or the song title... perfect song for a cold rainy day....won't guess when it was recorded either...that will be interesting on some of these songs....

Smart move - this one led to some rather wrong-ish guesses regarding when it's from!

9)Well, I'm sorry, I guess this would be me least favorite(So far, keep your fingers crossed ) Trumpeter has some interesting ideas...just can't seem to warm up to it.

10)Wait, a new least favorite! Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Bud Freeman...bet they aren't on this track!

11)I don't know if this one would be considered as Avant-garde as the previous two, and I might have had more issues with it if it was the first track, but I can take it, go ahead, laugh at me for not knowing this is Coltrane, or whomever it is.

That's the ones I thought off... no Coltrane in there - #10 and #11 are from little-known musicians, #9 rather less so, but these aren't big and famous names (alas, in my book).

12)Ah, MUSIC!!! late 20's to perhaps 1932 I'd guess??? Luis Russell band??? JC Higginbothem on Trombone??? Red Allen??? If it is, my idea of Avant-garde(and I know someone said he was the most avant-garde player he was hearin in the 60's)

Smack, dab in the middle! Red and Higgy with the great Luis Rusell band!

Indeed, to me Allen fits in with the avantgarde stuff - he was *always* there to play, taking chances, but he was always very musical, no matter how exuberant his solos got... making the occasional wrong note work, even!

13)Know the track, but can't think of the title...wait,Poinsettia??? like the guitar work. and the Piano.. late 40's/early 50's????

As I stated already, I don't even know the recording date of this one!

14) Tennesse Waltz. Very nice version, but haven't a clue who is playing. Someone with a lot of heart and soul. Don't even know why, but I feel like the guy might have played the organ from time to time.

Don't think he ever played organ, but he lived for a looooooooooong time and I don't by far know all of his recordings.

15)Oh no, not another sad song! Nope, quite the opposite. Not quite how you could catagorize it. Fun, different!

Well, speaking of fun, this BFT! It really is a trip to listen to music, not knowing who, when, where, and in the case of track 10, why! :rsmile: Really enjoyed it, thanks for inviting me! Now, to remember about the next one, when it comes up... is there a BFT reminder App?? great, I don't have a phone that apps work with, but great for others...

Glad you enjoyed the ride, Berigan! I'm aware it's quite a ride, but then I wanted it to reflect somewhat the broad range off music I enjoy!

I am listening to track 14. I've always liked this song and this piano player seem to me to be really feeling it. Very nice.

Yes, it's funny you know... the piano player is much older than the song, this recording much more recent... and an odd choice once you know who the pianist is!

(My favorite version of "Tennessee Waltz" might be Sam Moore's from his "Plenty Good Lovin'", btw)

I've been listening to the BFT a couple of time and following along with the comments. I do enjoy the differences in opinions. The Jack Teagarden track is certainly not bad music but for me it's kind of a snoozer. On the other side, track 10 is really interesting to me.

There is something for everyone, I think.

#10 is quite a rarity and somewhat of an oddity, I think - but I like the sounds there!

Big T generated some irritation over on another (german-language) forum I also did this BFT... (but the jazz community there is small and not too many are into pre-bop or pre-modern jazz at all there).

Me, I just love him! And I adore his late stuff, where it sounds as if his denture isn't quite sticking to where it should... it's somehow desolate and sad and touching, but on the other hand it's magniloquent and grand!

Edited February 5, 2011 by king ubu

[NIS]

"Magniloquent".

WOW, what a great word.