SNWOLF

Some of these responses just serve to reaffirm my contention that a commissar-like inability to deal with critque ultimately results in evasion, and a highly reactive defensiveness aimed at the person, not the argument. Forget it. I'll see if I can confine myself to ingroup sniggering and discographical territorial pissings, if that and predigested sectarian cant is the extent of argument some are prepared to engage in.

Thanks for the avuncular digression, then.

Maren, the extrapolations are yours. Hagiographical inferences did not refer to Roach specifically - he became a springboard for a general "discussion" with regard to "liberal in theory" but not in practice tendencies, particularly pertaining to the jazz world's defensive attitude to criticism, as evidenced by your post. If you examine my texts, when they are presented generally it is for purely rhetorical effect in order to emphasis the subject(s) and provoke debate (seige mentality kills that at birth, however). Otherwise I qualify my statements. If I was on a conservative board and presented criticism of right-wing shibboleths I imagine I wouild receive the same response. It's dichotomous reasoning that get's people so tribalistic, territorial, and worked up in the first place. Forget allegiences and just think.

Another evasion. No, I'm not inclined to sit back, light my pipe and enjoy some timeless wisdom from Reader's Digest or Collier. Nevertheless, I believe liberal pieties, pretensions, and hypocrisies can be critiqued - from within. In terms of starting a storm, as Allen Lowe put it - yeah, that's a shame. Luxuriating in a mutual admiration society while taking pot shots at obvious targets (conservatives, Marsalis etc et al - no, I'm not cheerleading for them either) seems like the path of least resistance to me. Going by what I've read here, most boardmembers are of a liberal persuasion, as am I. But there's too much hagiography, and a very real fear of fronting up to uncomfortable subjects. It's a seige mentality, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a liberal response to reality embraced transparency and debate.

No excess of testosterone, but crotchetiness, certainly. However the incapacity of some members to confront a thorny issue, to sidestep it with nervous or peevish evasive drollery, is demonstrated again. Genuine respect of a form, and an artist, is predicated upon the realisation that they are good, bad, and ugly, not something untouchable you deify and defend like a guard dog for right-thinking enlightenment. Humanity is messy; great jazz musicians are often messy. That does not diminish their contribution.

Of course I was speaking in a generalised way. The tone announces that from the get-go. The "mama's boy" quip, marcello, was not any reference to sensitivity, artistic or otherwise, but to the parcticular type of emotional dependency evinced by many artists. It's a damn shame Max got dragged into this issue when he's in bad shape: I love the man's music, I own a lot of discs he plays on, and some he has led (although they're a lot scarcer to come by.) I am not derogating jazz, or artists by bringing up issues which appear to be distinctly uncomfortable for people who imagine themselves to be relatively forward thinking. Jazz is an art, a life, a love. But it is not a RELIGION, a totalistic glory box that can't be besmirched by those who point out the sores. Your remark JSngry: " Well, isn't THAT special." Come on, I thought you had more intellectual chops than that. I really enjoy reading some of your posts, and you cop out with some adolescent sarcasm. We both know you can raise your argumentation to a higher level. How 'bout it?

If Max Roach took his anger out on Abbey Lincoln, or others, that definitely should not be swept under the rug, and it is not prurient psychobabble to bring it up. It seems to me that "psychobabble" used in a dismissive sense, is a convenient copout for men who are tone-deaf to psychological territory and emotional transparency. Max was one of MANY girl/wife beaters in the jazz community, and part of it is cultural, as Miles Davis relates in his autobiography, being so impressed by Eckstein slapping about bitches etc. In addition to that, what I've seen, as I'm sure many of you have when observing musician behaviour, is, despite the abundance of expressive and/or creative ideas, many musicians are mama's boys, they have dependent personalities. They either create a barrier between themselves and the world with "The Tough Guy", "The Imperious Geek", "The Aloof Artsnob" get it? They get wasted to regulate negative, "real world" emotion, and assault their woman to assuage anger and frustration. They are just as dependent on women as they are on alcohol or smack. Their woman has POWER over them, and these little vain lords can't stand being in chains - BOOF. Violence in jazz isn't going to be readily dealt with in the near future for so many reasons. Although jazz has become more polite and genteel, it is still played and listened to primarily by men - the sort of superficially intelligent men that are often divorced from their emotions, but use the music for catharsis. Although "Jazz Male Style" has mutated from machismo to "geekchismo", that fundamental alienation from emotions prevents jazz musicians talking about all sorts of stuff.

I saw a one-off concert Prior did on VHS, and was so blown away I read his autobiography, which made for pretty tragic reading at times - though outrageously funny too. Pryor was funny - I mean really funny with that deranged sense of the absurd and perverse lilke Lenny Bruce, although I don't think Lenny Bruce's monologues translate over time so well. For funny Lenny Bruce I always go back to his book "How to Speak Dirty and Influence People", which is a format that endures. It's hard for the charisma and attitude of a comedy performance to come across on a small TV screen. Eddie Murphy did it very early in his career. His satire of how white people dance still cracks me up whenever I'm at a gig and there's the p.c. sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers engaged in stiff, jerky dancing to complement the inevitable dreadlocks. It would be great to see Robin Williams on that DVD collection too. I saw some early footage of him once, not much, and it was hard to know whether he was inspired more by the muse or by coke. At any rate, he was fucking funny. But I like his recent move to "serious" movie roles too - the guy can act, and he has the depth and inner resources to draw from.

I just hope Jenkins' exposition on "free jazz" isn't as tortured and tendentious as so many earnest attempts to nail it down politically and culturally. Worst historical example of this: Kofksy. Some modern practitioners and critics have reframed that revolutionary hyperbole in postmodern terms, so we, the listeners who enjoy this music, have to endure some dessicated post-structuralism in order to be truly edified and lifted into a pure state beyond false consciousness (I once read an egregious review in "One Final Note" where the writer had a hissy fit about someone's lapse into making some cash doing occasional Mambo gigs, and Ron Carter selling his soul for some session work. Jazz Transgression! Evil was afoot!) I love free jazz, but as a soundtrack for slumming highborn snobs who propound the virtues of collectivism and being down with the people, when they've never SPOKEN to anyone outside their postgrad, insular milieus, sorry, but that's a major turnoff for me and so many potential listeners. I prefer to listen to this music at home, away from snooty poseurs. Only occasionally will I go and see a gig if they're truly outstanding, put on mental blinkers and soak in the music. And if it's outstanding - boy, you truly ARE transported.

Which Hank?

Well you had me, cheers.

Message to those inclined towards the Universal Pedantic Jazzsnob Petulant Sandpit: With or without personal pronouns, IOUs, petty grievances, or any other forms of self-involvement, subjectivity or rampant narcissism - who gives a fuck! Get over yourself and get on with the music..

Ron, could you give me some more details on the "custom" option? And what were, and how many, were the alternative takes. Is this clutter for completists, or is Pepper's playing significantly idiosyncratic on each take to make it worthwhile> Additionally, if it means them going out of their way and thus significantly hiking up the price, would it be possible to assemble a "custom" collection of any OOP Mosaics?

I just had a quick look at CDUniverse, which often lists personnel. Cool Blues has at least three of the musicians on House Party: Lou Donaldson, Art Blakey, and Tina Brooks. I've only ever owned The Sermon, but I've heard Cool Blues at a friend's place and really enjoyed it. Never heard House Party, but with that lineup it looks great. So it looks like Cool Blues and House Party will be on the buying agenda.

There's a track from this album which made it's way onto a compilation of West Coast hard bop. The track was Frankly Speaking, and that is some of the best playing I've heard Teddy do, equal parts deep blues and subtle lyricism. And of course Leroy Vinnegar gets such a rich, resonant tone on bass, and swings so effortlessly. I love his bass playing to bits. I really wish they would reissue that record - because I don't even have the record. Just had that compilation album I heard Frankly Speaking on. And I don't even have that! It was stolen with a bunch of other LPs that went west, so to speak. But if the rest of the album is as good as Frankly Speaking, I know I'm in for a treat.