Hot Ptah

k thnx bai ...and brought a strong strain of English music hall tradition. .....and had a producer who knew about other styles of music.

PM sent on: Eddie Lockjaw Davis and Bill Doggett--Midnight Shows Eddie Lockjaw Davis--Love Calls Flutes and Reeds Willis Jackson--Mellow Blues Willis Jackson--Funky Reggae Phineas Newborn--Piano Portraits Dizzy Reece--Manhattan Project Buddy Tate/Jay McShann/Paul Quinchette--KC Joys

I saw Anthony Braxton play contrabass sax in duet with Ray Anderson at D.C. Space in 1980. When Braxton was on contrabass sax, and Anderson was on tuba, and they were both playing all out at the same time, it felt like an assault of very low tones being blasted out at us. An assault in a good sense.

Joe the Plumber.

I can't find the interview that you are referring to, but I remember reading an interview of that sort. In fact, he was pretty harsh in the interview I remember. When I read it I thought that he was not being fair to Estrada or Black.

I understand your original post much better now. I understand the concept of innovators and copyists, and agree that Black was an important musician.

Bob Aspromonte Turk Farrell Roman Mejias

That is truly funny, MG. That stamped number in the lower right hand corner means that this was part of the original pressing. The lower numbers are very valuable now.

Well, I did not have that exactly right. Your post made me go back and look at my CD, and then go to the web for clarification. Check this link: http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/money.html What happened is that Zappa originally remixed and reissued "We're Only In It For The Money" on a CD which also contained "Lumpy Gravy", in 1986. On this 1986 CD, he erased Roy Estrada's bass parts and Jimmy Carl Black's drum parts from "Money" and had Arthur Barrow and Chad Wackerman record new parts. It was Wackerman, not Terry Bozzio. He claimed at the time that the original tapes were in such poor condition that he had to do that. I have a copy of the 1986 CD reissue. To me, "We're Only In It For The Money" does not sound right with the different bass and drum parts, as I am very familiar with the vinyl version (actually, versions, considering how many partially censored vinyl versions were released). It may be that Barrow and Wackerman were more technically skilled than Estrada and Black, but to my ears, there is a definite loss of feeling, of soul if you will. Also, there are odd little moments where Barrow or Wackerman really stick out where I think, oh no! It sounds to me like it would if someone dubbed Eddie Gomez over the original Jimmy Blanton bass parts on the 1940 Ellington classics. In 1995, a new CD reissue of "We're Only In It For The Money" was released, with the original bass and drums parts by Roy Estrada and Jimmy Carl Black present. There is no audible damage to their parts, so the "poor condition of the tapes" idea seems to be incorrect. I like the 1995 CD reissue much better.

If you had not noticed, the music industry, in all its genres, is made up of very few innovators and countless thousands of copyists. One Zappa, thousands of copyists. One Joni Mitchell, thousands of copyists. One John Coltrane, thousands of copyists. One Pat Metheny, thousands of copyists. One Laura Nyro, thousands of copyists. One Keith Jarrett, thousands of copyists.......et al. Just take your pick. It is of course not a sin to be a copyist, the industry flourishes on more than innovators. Malraux You misunderstood me. I truly want to know who copied Geronimo Black. I do not know who did, and would like to know.

C. Douglas Dillon Henry H. Fowler Joseph W. Barr

Of course! How did I forget that one?

Well, that is intriguing. I do not know who the many "genre-style copyists" are. Over thirty five years, we have had an avalanche of them? Somehow I missed it. Who are these copyists?

This is such a great review to read again because this group never had an official release, live or in the studio. It's a reminder of what should have been.

Chris, This is really interesting, as the album was later thought of as a great triumph by many listeners, a real classic. I heard it so many times at people's houses in that era that all of the songs are burned into my memory. Your negative comments about several of the songs are right on the money.

There was a CD reissue of "We're Only In It For the Money" on which Zappa had Terry Bozzio come in decades later and redo all of Jimmy Carl Black's drum parts. It doesn't sound right, for those who know the album in its original form. Black seems to have been one of those musicians with a truly personal sound. Zappa's later CD reissues of that album had the Jimmy Carl Black drum parts restored.