Hot Ptah

Noj, you are scheduled to present next month's Blindfold Test. I sent a private message to you asking if you are on track to present it, which you have not answered. Could you let me know? Thanks, Bill

This sort of thing, an attempt at perfect imitation, was discussed in Thom Keith's Blindfold Test #114. This song by Richard Noble and his group so perfectly captured the sound of the John Coltrane Quartet that many of us were genuinely fooled: 04 - The End of a Love Affair - Richard Noble - (2002) Continuity: In Memory of John Coltrane Richard Noble - tenor sax This was recorded off a radio broadcast to tape, then transferred to CD for posterity. I've never found the original disc (NOT For a lack of trying). My friend Ken Eisen turned me on to this cut, which is by far the class of the album. Noble was fresh out of college when this was recorded and had clearly spent a lot of time honing his Coltrane. What really sells this is how incredibly well they capture the sound of the whole quartet (solos notwithstanding). This one fooled The Boss (my Dad) who saw Coltrane many times. Like most of us, he went for his discography and was unable to find a recording of this song. The other cuts I've heard from the album expose Noble's limits as a player, and I'm not sure what ever became of him

I wonder if this album is the logical end result of the movement to label jazz as "America's classical music." This would seem to be a dream come true for those who have so stridently insisted on that label. At last jazz is viewed as a music having old works which rise to the level of Mozart's Symphony No. 41, to be faithfully played note for note as a work from a canon. Now jazz really is "America's classical music".

Well now, here is a novel approach--actually LISTENING to the album that everyone is discussing so much. I wonder how this discussion may have changed if everyone who has commented on this thread had first heard the album in its entirety..

I have been thinking about this album some more, but what I have been mostly thinking about are the reactions which have been printed not only here, but also on other online sources. I am surprised by the number of writings about how Mostly Others... should not have recorded this album, that it was unacceptable or wrong of them to do so. To me, that reaction is unique to jazz. I can't imagine country or rock writers and musicians turning on one of their own and writing that another artist in their genre could not and should not record an album that the artist wanted to record. It would seem ridiculous for them to do so. But in jazz, an all out attack on Mostly Others... is seen as just another thing that jazz writers and musicians do. Is jazz so fragile, so precious, that it has to be protected like a piece of delicate fine crystal on display in a case? What ever happened to robust, controversial exploration in all areas in jazz, some not successful perhaps but with the spirit of adventure applauded? What happened to jazz musicians forging ahead regardless of orthodoxy and doing what they wanted to do, and being appreciated for that? How do we KNOW that Mostly Others... is not embarked on a creative career of distinction, with this album as one step in a lifetime of experimentation? Why do we have to jump all over them like a strict schoolmarm rapping their knuckles with a ruler?

This is a great Blindfold Test. It is filled with compelling songs which I don't know. So it is both enjoyable and expands my knowledge. 1-1. This sounds like it could be an African recording. I love the reed player, very compelling soloist. I can't identify the rhythms exactly, but they are interesting and I want to know where this music comes from. 1-2. This sounds like a group that has immersed itself in the 1969-70 Miles Davis period. The drummer sounds like Tony Williams on "In a Silent Way" to me. The electric piano sounds like the keyboard work on "Bitches Brew" and "At Fillmore". But these are not Miles' musicians. It is a really good interpretation of that era--they get within the feel of the music, not just the surface. I have no idea who it is. 1-3. This is a compelling track. I can't identify the saxophone soloist but this is a very distinctive sound. The drummer has a unique sound too. The pianist is excellent, and it sounds to me like he or she has studied Andrew Hill's playing. Again, I have no idea, but really want to know who it is! 1-4. This sounds like an ECM recording to me. The musicians know their Ornette Coleman. The composition reminds me of Ornette's "Lonely Woman" at times. The trumpet soloist is a major player and must be the leader. That leads me to a list of possible guesses, of major trumpet players who have ECM albums in their names, but it would be only a guess. I want to get this album--if I don't have it already. 1-5. This is very interesting. It sounds like players who often play post-bop or music on the edge of bop and avant garde, who are on this track delving into a more overtly swinging, blues based, catchy mainstream style. The saxophonist is compelling and has a blues feeling. The pianist can go inside and outside, swinging while playing dissonant notes. I want to know who this is--I want to get it. 1-6. This reminds me of Bill Evans' version of "Some Other Time" from the Village Vanguard sessions album. The players are all quite lyrical. This is beautiful music. Again, I want to know who it is, and to get it for my collection. Really strong track. 1-7 This is really avant garde. I should know who this is but I do not. It sounds like a major reed player. I will probably be embarrassed that I can't identify the reed player. I will post my impressions of 2-1 through 2-7 later. 1-1 to 1-7 is both very enjoyable and makes me curious, both good things.

Well, one can ask the same question about many of the recordings of the jazz repertory movement of the past 25 years, in my opinion. Why should one ever listen to recreations of old music done not quite as well as the originals, by today's musicians? Some of those jazz repertory efforts have strayed from note by note recreations of the originals, but I wonder if some of them are not closer to the originals only due to lack of time for rehearsal, or lack of skill or effort or planning, by the musicians and/or producers involved. Then when the repertory performance comes off as a bit sloppy, one can fall back on--"it's a personalized jazz interpretation"-- to mask the lack of success of the repertory effort. I wonder if Mostly Others...differs from those other repertory efforts in the long time they have planned this recording and the greater degree of care they have taken to make it a genuine repertory effort.

Oh I see about the Lord remark. My moniker, Hot Ptah, is based on a fictional character in Phillip Roth's "The Great American Novel", a hotheaded major league baseball catcher with a wooden leg, who is quite a comic character in the novel. That character is about as far from a godlike character as one can get, which may have been part of Roth's sense of humor in naming him.

I have to raise this point, as controversial as it may be. I wonder if this exact same album. literally the exact same music, would have created controversy if it had been recorded by a group of black men, ages 75-85, who presented it as a reverent tribute to the great Miles Davis, and who called their group "We Love Miles." I wonder if this album is controversial partly because it has been recorded by a bunch of white and Asian musicians, who are young, with no track record of paying their dues in the usual way (the Jazz Messengers, Miles and his sidemen's groups, etc. ), and who have used goofy, irreverent humor in their album titles, liner notes and designs.

Your mention of Supersax is very interesting. From what I recall, Supersax was viewed positively for the most part. So what is the real difference? Also, I heard a concert about fifteen years ago, in which David Baker conducted the Smithsonian Jazz Orchestra in note for note recreations of many of Duke Ellington's classic recordings. David Baker commented that the musicians were playing note for note transcriptions of the original recordings. Of course, this group could not capture the personality of the original Ellington soloists. I recall no critical controversy about this tour. The audience seemed to be delighted by the performance, as I recall. (What really struck me about the concert was how inattentive some of the musicians seemed to be, as they were playing. It hit me--this music seems very easy to them).

Word Well, that is a first. I have been called a lot of four letter words, but never Lord. I have been thinking about this album. It raises an issue about an artist's right to produce whatever kind of art they want. Some art purists did not want Andy Warhol to paint Campbells soup cans. Roy Lichtenstein was criticized for merely copying comic book pages for his paintings. Stravinsky was attacked for "The Rite of Spring." The early French Impressionists came under severe negative criticism from the art establishment. John Coltrane's collaboration with Eric Dolphy was called anti-jazz. Jackson Pollock was called a fraud who just dripped paint randomly onto canvas. If a musical artist wants to copy Kind of Blue note for note, or play 45 minutes of unaccompanied alto saxophone with no conventional melody or rhythm, or record an unremitting wall of dense sound for 45 minutes which strikes many listeners as sheer cacophony--who are we to pass judgment on their decision to do it? Who are we to say that they can't do it, or shouldn't do it? We may decide as a matter of personal taste that the artist's choice does not speak to us, but I think that is different from questioning the artist's right to produce the art. Also, it hit me that Kind of Blue seems to get reissued every few years in new packaging at varying degrees of higher or lower pricing--but rarely with anything added to a listener's experience of the album. That has struck me more than once as rather ridiculous, a blatant commercialized mining of the gold so many times that one wonders when the mine will finally be played out. So this new album by Mostly Others...could be viewed as a comment on how the unceasing marketing and reissuing of the album has turned it into a commodity, an object, which is fair game for any treatment or handling. I have not heard the album by Mostly Others yet. I am just commenting on how the album has made me think about different issues.

I have discussed this with Hardbopjazz privately. I am going to move jeffcrom to November and give June to Hardbopjazz. We now have all of 2015 covered. Thank you all for stepping forward and volunteering.

I am trying to accommodate everyone and make everyone happy. I did not mean to slight you. I do not see that posted anywhere. Can you point out where that is? If I missed it, I apologize. I can't find that listing for you for March. Do you want to take November, 2015?

That article reveals that the whole thing was not just a prank, no matter what you may think of the album, or the intentions of the group in recording it.

Mostly Other People is an irreverent group which seems to have an offbeat sense of humor. I wonder if this is meant as some type of joke, even if done with respect to the original.

I should really learn. When everyone is having fun being negative, just let them have fun. No one wants to hear a contrary point of view, so screw it.

The idea may be silly. If I tried to write a blog about someone's collection of traditional Scottish folk music, I would be floundering for sure, and someone might well ask, why is he doing it? I guess I would hope that people would be a bit kind about it, and not have a knee jerk nasty reaction. If they made numerous comments about my physical appearance in my photo attached to such a blog, I would be in real trouble! I find that happens so often these days, that people react to things that are not inherently offensive with very negative, rather hurtful communication. It didn't seem to be that way years ago, betraying my advanced years here. I wonder why and how that happened.

I am really surprised by the reactions to this blog. In the past year I have had to socialize with over a hundred adults from around the country, in different walks of life, for my business. My impression is that she is more receptive to jazz than 99.9999999999999999 per cent of the American adult population. Her comments are vastly more perceptive than I would receive from any of the many highly educated professionals I have been dealing with recently. None of them can sit through a song from "Mingus Ah Um" which comes on as background music in the upscale restaurant we are meeting in, without making derogatory comments. I can only imagine any of them being exposed to Albert Ayler for more than five seconds--it would not be pretty. I think that the fixation with her hair and appearance is strange, and not up to the usual standard of discussion here at Organissimo. I am glad I have had to get out and be with mainstream Americans in large numbers, because I now realize what an isolated cocoon jazz fanatics live in. To get ANYONE to have ANY interest in jazz today is a major miracle. We should be rejoicing that a single person out there is even trying to write about it. I like her writing style too. She is funny and perceptive, in a non-judgmental way. I think that if you played this Albert Ayler album for about anyone in America, apart from the few hundred jazz fanatics on online boards, the reaction would be a string of obscenities at best. For people to say that if a spouse doesn't like jazz, they are somehow less of a person, or a bad influence on children--wow, that is really strange to me. How many members of the opposite sex do you really know? I have met less than five women in my life who really liked jazz. Maybe I have been unlucky.

It's yours. I will edit the first post here to refkect that. Thanks!

I'm not keeping up with this forum like I used to so maybe you've been around constantly, but it was some time since I saw posts from you. Anyway, nice to see you here, catesta! I'm thinking of maybe applying for the May test. , I just started putting my toes back in the water after spending a few years away from here. Thanks Luckily they are warm, soothing waters, not shark infested!

Yes, you are scheduled for May. I have edited the list in the first post.

Yeah, we all think that!

I am not sure what others do. Sometimes I will do a Search using the name of the artist or a word from the song title, searching only in the Blindfold Test forum.

This is a highly enjoyable set!

Thom Keith is handling all download questions as part of our joint administration of the Blindfold Test this year. Thom, can you please respond? However, I can tell you this. If you want to do a Blindfold Test and do not know how to put it on a download, you can do what I do. I burn a CD-R of my Blindfold Test, taking care to remove all identification of song titles and artists, and then mail it to Thom. He converts it into a download for you and it can then be sent out to the members. Just about everyone receives the Blindfold Test by download now. We'd love to have you as a Blindfold Test presenter again!