Hot Ptah

"introspective Individuals Who Seem to Revel in the Music's Rarified and Exclusionary Status"--what a marketing slogan for an online jazz forum!

Not to mention playing videogames, which is a billion dollar industry which last i heard had officially eclipsed the movie industry earnings wise. From housewives playing casual games on smart phones to hardcore PC gamers, people are in to gaming. And unlike music they're willing to spend money on it. People will spend thousands on consoles and games; that's a large slice of the disposable income pie right there. Jazz is not that popular but i think the age of traditional popularity, household names etc, in pretty much any genre, is largely over. It was a blip. Having said that, i think if promoted in the right way jazz could at least reach more of the young/alternative audience. At the end of the day jazz is a different language to what most people grew up with. What motivation does anyone have to learn a second language if they don't need it? Also, it's a fact of life that factors other than the music itself come in to play = for most people jazz is a faceless, contextless music. When we pick up an album and look at the personnel we sense the history of the players and everything that comes with it: "whoa i wonder what Dude X will sound like with Dude Y on bass prior to that period of his playing." For most people however the personnel are a list of random names that carry no weight whatsoever. I've often thought that if a listener listened to an album not as a 'jazz' album but as an experimental album from one of their favourite alt bands it would be a mind opener. I'm 33 and starting getting in to jazz at around 25. FWIW here's what i thought pre-indoctrination: - In general i disliked brass. - The saxophone is the least cool instrument on the planet. In the eighties when i was growing up it seemed like every horrible pop song and cheesy sitcom theme featured a corny saxophone solo. - As a hip hop fan, i'd often check out jazz due to enjoying songs with jazzy samples. It always felt like it was missing something without the beat. Vacant, lacking. - Beats. I can't stress enough how used we are to hearing a strong kick snare four four beat and how wrong it feels to not have it there (in hindsight this is weird as i dug film music and other stuff that didn't have a beat). - That 'tss t t tss t t tss' and walking bass line thing made me want to slit my wrists. - Sometimes i'd enjoy the heads but i found solos to be completely tedious. Listening to Kind of Blue it was like a switch when the solos would start, like the carpet was being pulled out from under my ears. - Beats. No beats. No good. - Funny thing is i don't even remember consciously thinking that jazz was old or dead or whatever. People don't give it that much thought. Your pre-indoctrination thoughts are exactly the type of things I hear from my business clients and other people I have to socialize with for business. This may be shocking to those on this board, but a lot of educated adults, successful in a career, cannot identify a trumpet or saxophone when they see one in person--and they certainly cannot identify the sound of either instrument. When they do hear the sound of a trumpet or saxophone, they tune it out, "know" that they don't like it. It is all just too foreign to them. These are not dumb people by any means. Also, many of these educated, successful people do not like to hear all-instrumental music, and do not like to hear many solos, or any extended solos. To them, soloing is "not music." Finally, your point about the beats is so true. So many people I have been meeting can only listen to music with the hip hop beat behind it. Otherwise it is too strange to them. Also, I love your comment that "people don't give it that much thought." That has been my experience. It is not that people dislike jazz. It is that they never think of jazz at all. It is like saying to me, do you dislike the folk music of Western Mongolia? I have never thought of it, one way or the other.

Some people will. But that sort of music has a tiny audience. It might seem otherwise at a dedicated New York or London venue with millions living within commuting distance. I can't imagine many turning out for it in the market town I live in. We don't even get mainstream jazz here! Remember that in its determination to confront conformity and stereotype much of that music deliberately throws out or disguises the things most people recognise as music - recognisable melody (in the sense of tunes), a danceable beat, standard harmony. There is no doubt that if you are receptive to having your prejudices about music confronted then it can be enjoyed by anyone. But, as you said earlier, most people's interest in music doesn't go that far (and there's no reason it should). Agree with all of this. My wife heard the stuff I listen to at home for years and besides a few things, I was forced into listening via headphones. Cecil Taylor scared her and forget about Brotzmann. But when saw the musicians live it all changed. She told Nasheet Waits that he should be on Jay Leno When I took a contemporary country music fan to see Terri Lyne Carrington's "Money Jungle" tribute concert, she absolutely could not sit through it. She was confused, bored and disliked it. She found absolutely nothing to latch onto in the music. Terri Lyne said between songs that her goal was to play the blues, but the blues very abstracted, so that there was no direct blues feeling in the blues songs. She succeeded. It was an avant garde, post-modern take on "Money Jungle"--whenever the band came close to playing one of the songs simply and directly, they quickly went outside to avoid actually stating any melody. Some of the members on this board could admire the craftsmanship in such an approach, the intellectual challenge it presented. One might have their ears challenged, recalling the original album and contrasting it on the fly, to what Carrington and her band were playing instead. An uninitiated but willing pop music fan found nothing to enjoy, however. This is the album that won the Jazz Grammy last year, too. This is one person, one concert, but a lot of what we are discussing here is very anecdotal, based on a limited event or experience.

I don't think that jazz doesn't appeal to "those people" because "there is a huge entertainment deficit in today's jazz." Rather, as I think you suggest, it's because the kinds of musical entertainment they prefer already amply satisfy their desires to" just ... have fun." If I'm already having lots of fun, why would I go in search of some other ways to do that? Pondering these problems, there's always a temptation to say that jazz such as it is needs to be significantly other than it is, and then we might be OK. Not that the various ways that jazz is nowadays ought to be regarded with complacency, but my experience over the years has been that if we try to gee up the music's supposed "entertainment deficit," we then won't be OK, or that much better off, in terms of popularity, we'll just have some more music that no one will care that much about or remember after a short while. Hey, what about Windham Hill? That was supposed to be our salvation at one point. ​BTW, that is not to dismiss the important practical points that Allen Lowe made in post #34. I agree that jazz should not be watered down to try to appeal to a mass audience. However, even in my lifetime I can remember Lionel Hampton, Clark Terry, Dizzy Gillespie, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Art Ensemble of Chicago, and Sun Ra emphasizing an entertainment aspect in their shows, or at least a lively, friendly interaction with the audience. Charles Mingus, Dexter Gordon and Carla Bley had large personalities and some people went to see them partly to hear their between song comments and just to see them. I am not aware of anything like that today. I can't name any jazz artist who presents an entertaining, engaging or compelling onstage personality, or who makes their shows entertaining. There are no jazz artists that I can think of who would generate a comment like "oh, he or she is really cool" from a member of the general public.

I have to socialize with many people of different ages and from different parts of the U.S. for my work. I think that we in the jazz fanatic community may overestimate the appeal and awareness of jazz in the overall population, at all age levels. From what I can tell, almost everyone from age 20--60 now likes either hip hop or contemporary pop country (Tim McGraw, Taylor Swift, Lady Antebellum, Kenny Chesney, that kind of stuff). Rock (in the sense of the rock music styles from the 1970s) is not that popular. Blues and folk are never mentioned. Jazz is never mentioned. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. When the topic of music comes up, either a discussion of hip hop or today's pop country comes up. Those are also the artists who are typically booked into the arenas and larger theater venues these days. So the question is, how does jazz appeal to those people? I think it does not appeal to them at all. There is a huge entertainment deficit in today's jazz, which makes it very off-putting to a great many people today. These days, people just want to have fun.

PM sent.

I find that very interesting about Les McCann. I never met him in person, but he played at an outdoor festival in a park in Kansas City about ten years ago. His opening remark was, "here I am back in this sad ass town", delivered with a snarl. He said some other bitter things from the stage that day. If he was generally nice in person at that time, he must have been having a really bad day. I have never heard any other musician say such negative things from a stage, ever.

Here are the rest of my reactions: 11. I thought this was a group that knew their Coltrane from the Crescent/A Love Supreme period. I did not recognize Teddy Edwards! I have not heard him play like this. So that is Christian McBride on the bowed bass--he is playing with more depth of feeling than sometimes when I have heard him live. I wondered if it was Ed Blackwell--so it's Billy Higgins, who alternated with him in the Ornette Coleman group at times. This is really interesting. 12. I have not heard enough Billy Butler--I need to remedy that. I am not familiar with Jesse Powell and am glad I heard him here. 13. Who is Clifford Scott--I love his playing! Thanks for introducing him to me! 14. Well, now the mix of elements kind of makes sense, now that I see Oliver Nelson in the credits--he did some unorthodox stuff. I have always liked Shirley Scott, and like her here too. 15. Ron Starr! Another tenor player I really like, and had never heard before. This Blindfold Test is expanding my horizons. 16. I have this Fats Domino collection, but did not recognize the song. It's been a while since I played it, but I should have caught Fats' sound under the sax player. 17. I have that Big John Patton album and have played it often, so I should have been able to name the composition. Bill Henderson is an appealing pianist to me. I really like his approach here. This is a group and album which were unknown to me, and which I enjoy a lot. Thank you for turning me on to so many artists I had not heard of, and really like!!!

Well, I never heard of this guy before but, looking at the wiki page you referenced, I can see why. MG Did you see the link within the article to Keltner's webpage, MG, which lists his recordings? He recorded on albums by Albert King, B.B. King, Freddie King, Albert Collins, John Lee Hooker, Roberta Flack, Booker T. Jones, Chaka Khan, Aaron Neville, Ibrahim Ferrer, the Impressions, Cal Tjader, Clarence Gatemouth Brown, Freddie Hubbard, Jimmy Cliff, Ziggy Marley, Keb Mo, Mavis Staples, Pops Staples--it wasn't all rock music.

Here are my reactions to the first half of your Blindfold Test--with the rest to follow. 1. I have never even heard of this group before! I know Bill Henderson from Harold Land albums. You have introduced me to something new here! Drummer Jim Keltner may have played with Gary Lewis and the Playboys, but he has also been on literally thousands of albums. He is one of the most recorded session musicians in history. One of my favorite anecdotes about him-- a young group of today was going to record a cover of John Lennon's "Jealous Guy", from Lennon's 1971 "Imagine" album. They asked Keltner if he knew the song. He said, "yeah, I played on the original." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keltner 2. I am glad to learn about this Gloria Lynne version. She sings it really well. I met bassist Leon Lee Dorsey when he was Richard Davis' student assistant at the University of Wisconsin in 1981. He was very promising as a bass player way back then. This is considered one of James Taylor's better songs. It is still a staple of his live performances, decades after he recorded it. 3. Okay, you blew my mind with this one. I would not have guessed Lionel Hampton in a million years. It just does not sound like something I would have expected him to record. I had wondered if the acoustic guitar soloist was a famous player who I should know. Now that I see his name, I have never heard of him before. 4. You fooled me totally with this one. I would not have expected this smooth jazz to have come from a Hispanic group of musicians. 5. No wonder I could not place this version of "Afro Blue". This is one of the things I love about your Blindfold Tests, the chance to learn about some great African recordings! I really love this recording. 6. This is stunning to learn about, as I listen to the track again. There is some very prominent organ playing on this song, both funky and in more of the contemporary sound of that time (such as the organ work on "In a Silent Way"). Is it the work of Albert Dailey, listed here on piano and electric piano only? I did not know that Dailey even played the organ! That would mean that there is a whole other dimension to his musicianship, that I had never imagined. Lytle is a really good vibes player. I am not that familiar with him, but I am very impressed. 7. This is one of the all time great Blindfold Test tracks, from all 122 Blindfold Tests. How did a group of swing era musicians, like Rex Stewart and Hilton Jefferson, achieve a late 1950s exotica/early Sun Ra sound so seemingly effortlessly? I thought I knew Rex Stewart's sound, but I did not pick him out of the soloists here. I realize that I am not that familiar with the solo stylings of Hilton Jefferson. I thought that this sounded remarkably like Johnny Hodges. I did not know that Hilton Jefferson could play this way. I wonder if it is Jefferson or Garvin Bushell on the clarinet solo. Bushell recorded with Mamie Smith, John Coltrane at the Vanguard, and now this! What a career! 8. I love this vocal, and the feel and energy of the song. Thanks for introducing me to it! 9. I should have known this. I have certainly heard of the group, and heard some of their music. A great track. 10. I have some Don Braden albums. He seemed to be an up and coming, emerging player for a time. I wonder what happened to him. I have heard Russell Malone in live performance, but could not place him when I heard him here. I will have more comments on the rest of the Blindfold Test in the next day or so.

I seem to have missed this. Could you indicate where in the interview it comes up. The question starts with "When you say Walter Perkins...." it's early in the interview, before he talks about playing with Sonny Rollins.

The nicest musician I have met is Richard Davis.

I remember the days before these improved cartridges. I spent at least 20 minutes more each morning shaving. These expensive cartridges are among the best new products to be introduced in my lifetime. They have saved me much time and made shaving immensely easier. I don't care what they cost, I want them.

I suggested to Tom that he should wait until June 1, so that everyone would concentrate on your wonderful BFT 122 until then, MG!

I found it interesting that he does not see himself primarily as a soloist. I saw a Sonny Rollins concert in Kansas City at which pianist Stephen Scott was delayed in the St. Louis airport (which is quite possible) and missed the first set. Bob Cranshaw was called upon to fill in with bass solos, for all of Scott's missing piano solos. It was the only time I have heard Cranshaw solo at length, often.

Wasn't he the first black actor to play a cowboy in a Hollywood film?

What I find amazing about this is that two of the albums have never been issued on CD: Astro Black and The Invisible Shield.

http://www.npr.org/2014/05/22/314593139/saturn-still-swings-celebrating-sun-ra-at-100 http://www.npr.org/blogs/ablogsupreme/2014/05/22/314363815/act-like-you-know-sun-ra

I have two jazz T shirts which I would like to sell. This Louis Armstrong shirt is brand new and has never been worn. It is size Large. I would sell it for $10, plus shipping: This Dizzy Gillespie T shirt is size Large, and has been worn. The collar is worn and a little frayed. The image of Dizzy is still quite good. I would sell this one for $5, plus shipping;

This sounds extremely interesting. When can we pre-order?

This is a very intriguing Blindfold Test, and also very enjoyable to listen to. 1. This is so mysterious to me. It sounds like it could be the introductory first track of a prog rock album, or a CTI track from the 1970s, or some other fusion group. I don't know what it is. I like it and can't wait to find out. 2. This song, "Secret of Life", was originally released on James Taylor's 1977 album JT. I note that the sidemen on this album included Red Callender and David Sanborn. I really like the vocalist on Track 2 here. She has a soulful voice. I do not know who it is, but want to know! 3. This is an appealing track, with a rhythmic feel that I really like. That seems to be a characteristic of this Blindfold Test, that several tracks have extra percussionists who create very infectious, appealing grooves. I have no idea who is playing the vibes, baritone sax or guitar, but I like all of them. 4. This sounds a little bit too smooth jazz for me, but may predate the smooth jazz era. The saxophone player sounds like someone who can play more, but is fitting in to the format. It reminds me of what someone like Hank Crawford would play if he was told, "do this." 5. This is a very appealing "Afro Blue". I like the version on Cal Tjader's "Soul Sauce" a lot, but in its own way, this version is just as good. Who is playing that breathy flute and singing along? It does not sound like Roland Kirk. The saxophone player is excellent. I want to get this. 6. Vibes over a funky beat with lots of Latin percussion. Cal Tjader would be an obvious guess, but it does not sound like Tjader to me. It almost sounds like the early 1950s Tito Puente recordings with vibes. Who is that organist? The organist plays a characteristic sound that was used on Miles Davis' "In a Silent Way" album by the organist there, but that would mean it is Josef Zawinul, and I never heard Zawinul play the robust funk organ stuff at the beginning of this track. So you have really baffled me, in a good way. I really want to get this one. 7. This sounds like an exotica recording from the late 1950s or early 1960s. There is a great radio program on Kansas Public Radio, "The Retro Cocktail Hour", by Darrell Brogdon, which plays the best of that stuff every week. www.retrococktail.org/listen.html I bet that Darrell Brogdon would identify this song in two seconds. There is a slight early Sun Ra twinge at one point, but this is not Sun Ra. It reflects how Sun Ra enjoyed some of the exotica music and incorporated it into his sound palette in his early years (as described in John Szwed's biography of Sun Ra, Space is the Place). But then this track gets really interesting. Who are those jazz soloists? The muted trumpet soloist is excellent. That is either Johnny Hodges or someone trying to play like him. I can't identify the clarinet player at all. I am not aware of jazz soloists of this caliber playing so well on an exotica track. Extremely interesting! 8. I love this Latin recording, the vocal, the song itself, the performance. Who is this? I want it! 9. "Gee Baby, Ain't I Good To You". I should know who the clarinet player and vocalist are. I don't know. A fine recording. 10. I love that big sound, breathy tone tenor sax player. The guitarist plays cleanly, but not with great ideas, in my opinion. 11. This could only have been recorded by musicians who really know their "Crescent"/"A Love Supreme" era Coltrane. The drums sound like Ed Blackwell at times. 12. Making Whoopee. The guitarist has that characteristic distorted sound that guitarists playing in a more bloodless style use sometimes, the ECM type guys. The organist and tenor sax player are really good. This one has me stumped. It is a mix of elements that don't often get used together, in my experience, but it works. 13. A bop tune. I love the tenor saxophonist. I love his big, rough tone and the depth of his ideas. I could listen to him all day. 14. The vocal with the "ooo ooo" chorus at the beginning, and easy listening type ensemble singing at the end, really has me stumped. Who would put all of these ingredients together? 15. The tenor sax player has a gritty sound, and uses the popping sound that George Adams and Roland Kirk used, but it is not them. It sounds like a blues guitar player who I can't place. 16. Oh, I bet I have this and have enjoyed listening to it, but I just can't name it! I love this kind of 1940s/early 1950s rhythm and blues. At one point they play the head of "Night Train." The sax player, blues pianist and r&b guitarist are all fine. 17, This is such a mystery to me. It sounds like McCoy Tyner playing the intro to "My Favorite Things", but it is not him. It sounds like someone trying to sound like Roland Kirk, but it is not him. I have heard this composition, it is familiar, but I can't name it. It has a recorded sound quality not like the Blue Notes or Impulses of the time period that I think this comes from, the 1968-74 period. I am really stumped, but I find this to be immensely appealing. TMG, you have presented quite a treat. I love most of it, like the rest, and have no clue on any of it. Much of it sounds tantalizing just out of my mental reach to identify it--so close....but yet so far. It will be quite an enjoyable experience to read the rest of the comments, and the Reveal!

In my opinion, they are most definitely worth hearing, and owning.

I said that I might be embarrassed when I found out who the pianist is on #17, as I thought he was exhibiting his chops too much instead of fitting into the groove. It's Jay McShann. I am embarrassed. He is one of my favorites, and I saw him live more than 25 times, but I still did not recognize him. I am hanging my head in shame. This is one of the all time great Blindfold Tests, Dan, certainly one of the very most enjoyable ones to listen to, of all time. I have a list of music to go get now. I love the deeply soulful saxophonists presented here. It's a wealth of deeply soulful saxophonists.

"15 ‘What did I do to be so black and blue’. So long as a musician can play reasonably well, he can make something wonderful out of this song. And Mrs Armstrong’s lad can play reasonably well; his Okeh recording is wonderful indeed. But It’s not Louis, but someone taking him off very well. I'm not sure what is more surprising, folks who haven't ID'd Pops or those who think it's someone impersonating him. To me this is one of his most recognizable recordings." Dan, I think that this is a hazard of these Blindfold Tests--the listener is so attuned to try to figure out what must be esoteric, unusual and not obvious about a song, that when a well known song by a very recognizable stylist is presented, the listener thinks--oh, it just can't be. I find this very interesting.