JSngry

It also helps to understand the fatally symbiotic love/hate relationship that so many poor White Southern folks have with Southern Black peoples. It's a world of taboos that are feared and flaunted in equal measure, such that what many have heard as the whole "white guy singing colored" trip (as I've heard it described by many over the years) is so damn pseudo-liberating and ultimately oppressive - for all concerned - in equal measure that it's hard for me to have a response to Elvis and others of the same "ilk" other than one of...discomfort. There is no real "solution" in any of this stuff, nor is there any "progress" other than in ways for people to profit. There for damn sure ain't no "colorblindness" in any of it. In fact, it's just the opposite, and in that regard, how "revolutionary" was it, really? One could call it Same Story, Next Chapter, and not be wholly inaccurate, could one not? America's problem, to be sure. But one which I find resolved (or being ongoingly resolved to be more accurate) in many better ways in many other places. Whatever Elvis and others did to facilitate that resolution (and I guess you could argue that he paved the way for the Memphisian interracial stone soulfullness of Stax, et al, although that all came crumbling down when "crisis time" hit America, didn't it...) is duly noted. but that's it for me.

Well see, I got a problem there too, since there's a helluva lot of ways to be "interactive". Check out Dodd's spoken rap "Playing for the benefit of the band" (on American Music and hear a message that wouldn't at all be out of place in a mid-60s interview with Sunny Murray or Milford Graves. and along the same lines, this whole "front line vs rhythm section" dichotomy is one that is flase afaic, even if a lot of musicians have fallen for it over the years as well. This music was originally an ensemble music, and at it's best (imo) always has been, no matter what the chronological period). "soloist plus rhythm secion" is a format that works, and one that is often the best that one can due economically and logistically, but it's not what too many people that I know actually prefer. Truthfully, I don't think it's a matter of drummers becoming "more equal" as much as it is players of all instruments evolving collectively. Yeah, ok, Sunny brought a new role to the drums with Ayler, but wasn't Ayler bringing a new role to the tenor? Wasn't Bird bringing a new role to the alto while Max was doing the same to the drums? And wasn't Baby Dodds doing the same thing, desiging a role for his instrument (one which he, if not invented, defintely went a long way towards codifying) that fit in with what the rest of his peers were doing? I'm reminded of something that a good friend said once that made me laugh and cry at the same time. We were lsitening to some Prez w/Jo Jones, and this guy, always a Trane-centric savant suddenly blurted out something like, "Man. Lester is SO beautiful, but that drummer, he's good and all, but imagine how much better it would have been if ELVIN had been around then!!!" Well, ok, yeah, just imagine. Point being, that drummers have always been equal in this music at it's highest levels. The "roles" might have evolved in terms of "style" but not in terms of "purpose".

Apologies to Dave Chapelle for that one, btw.

No there's not, at least not a malevolent one. In fact, I've gotten run over myself more than once. Hardly the end of the world. More like a renewal, in fact. Live and learn, and hopefully share the lessons. Frankly, you sound a bit paranoid about this whole "time passing" thing. Go with that if you must, but leave me out of it. My goal is to include, not eradicate, forward. Forward will happen, people do get left behind, and it's not always necessary, nor pretty, that they do. And frankly, I'm not a kid myself, so I myself have a vested interest in not turning into a grumpy old man who rants and rails against that which they do not understand simply because they make no attempt to understand it. Having spent the first half of my life in the company of many, many, such people, I feel it to be an act of enlightened self-interest to discourage - by putting some "ideas" out there for consideration - as much as popssible the possibility of spending the second half of my life surrounded by more of the same. I don't fear getting old, but I have no interest whatsoever in becoming a stranger in my own world. "visit violence on people who won't get out of your way"? Are you fucking serious? Wow... Dude, it's a fact of life - different people move at different speeds on different roads that only sometimes intersect. Annoyance is inevitable (and on both sides - that club owner had every bit as much right to be annoyed at me as did to be at him, it was his room and his money), but violence? You seem to equate being pissed off with actually being angry. Hell man, it's just another reality afaic, same as happiness, hunger, whatever. People only get angry about shit like this when they think it's not supposed to happen. I harbor no such illusions, and in fact have quite often been able to laugh at shit that at the same time pisses me off. You've probably known some people like this before. If not, hey, here one is. Carpe diem, bitch.

Nice overview, but this kinda bugs me ("bugs" is too strong a word, but it'll have to do) because a guy like Baby Doods was pretty damn radical his ownself (the various solo recordings he made have been some of the more ear/mind-opening listening experiences I've had in the last 10 years or so). Hell, the wole notion of a drum kit was a radical notion. So the notion that "liberation" began w/Max & Klook sorta implies that drumming itself was a form of imprisonment, and I can't say that I can go there with that. Not with guys like Sid Catlett doing their thing still more or less directly tied into the original impetus (although you can argue that it's all tied into the original impetus if at nothing else a "spiritual" level). But "evolution", yeah, that's cool. Persnickety fit over.

Well, if that's what you hear in it, that's what you hear. Why you hear it, I can't say, and I'd dare not speculate. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm not trying to get anybody "out of the way". No siree. Just trying to get friends, family, and other loved ones to kinda...wake up so they don't get run over. It's not a question of "get out of the way" so much as it is, "here's the road we're on, here's where it's going, enjoy the trip and don't get intimidated by all the 18-wheelers that act like they want to run you over. But don't try to call the cops on them either, because they ain't gonna come." Now, if after all that, folks decide that this isn't the road they want to be on, hey, cool. Now you know, and now you can decide based on something other than just the seemingly crazy driving of others. Side roads and back roads exist for any number of reasons, not all them disreputable. Far from it. Just don't blame the freeway for being what it is, that's all I'm saying. Lots of people still want to get on and drive 45 in the fast lane and then they don't understand why people get pissed off at them. If you're gonna get on it, then know what the game is and proceed accordingly. It's your road too, but not every lane on it is. It's a swell ride and you don't have to drive like a maniac to enjoy it. But you do need to recognize & observe some basic minimum standards of it's self-contained/created reality lest you do get run over. And ain't nobody wanting that.

Yeah, it does get confusing. Is it any wonder them late fees need to be waived?

All right, Jim -- and excuse me, Chuck, while I engage in further public "self-abuse" -- but isn't there a good-sized gap in tone between your "willing to accept chronology as an perpetually ongoing entity" and your "the 20th century is over now." No, not really. Recognizing that yesterday was Tuesday, today is Wednesday, & that tomorrow is going to be Thursday doesn't seem too big a reach... I do like the notion of ignoring chronology when it comes to getting late fees waived though.

And I can hear peoples now - "(A)I'm not questioning the legitimacy of the music, I'm just saying that I don't like it, and (B) I don't particularly want to have to pay to hear it, especially with the 'take your medicine, it's good for you' type vibe". To which I can only say (A) Fair enough. More than fair enough, actually, & (B)Having the ability to hear only what you want to hear the way you want to hear it is why I-Pods, CD players, and phonographs have been so popular over the years. Public presentation is by its very nature going to be a curvier, bumpier road, and attempts to make it otherwise can't help but end up as vile, tightly-controlled, playlisted creatures. Does anybody really want a chamber music subscription series equivalent of Clear Channel Radio?

With all due respect, DUH! ;)

The point being, though, that both Fred Allen & Vic and Sade happened, are history, and have been accepted as "legitimate" undertakings by all but the most wacktastic. To argue for or against them should require an acceptance of at least that much. A lot of music "fans" (in all genres) do not seem to be willing to accept chronology as an perpetually ongoing entity. Good luck on that one.

Radio Got Soul was a really nifty Internet radio station specializing in house music. I know from offline converstations that a few UK members were at least occasional listeners, and am wondering if anybody has any further information. As always, thanks in advance.

Booty and butt are distinctly different placces and experiences...

My girl smells bootylicious!

I'll listen to some Public Enemy in his honor!

And to be honest, there's plenty of/in some "schools" of "moderninity" that I don't dig at all. But it's not the "modern" aspect of it. It's how the input couples with the output to effect the throughput that is offputting, and on that, there ain't no time frame. I can get that from old shit just as easy as I can modern. So that's why, for me, the whole "20th century" tag is a red herring and/or a cover for something else not at all related to the actual music.

Yeah, sure, ok, of course, etc, and such... BUT... It's a constant personal (and personally constant) irritant of mine to pretty much damn near constantly have to deal with this whole "oh, let's not get too modern business, which takes some pretty bizzarre and disgusting twists. A few cases in point, two of many - I played a jazz gig a few weeks ago, all acoustic instruments, & I called "Ode To Billy Joe". Well, ok, we did it, & we copped a nice Gene Ammons ca. 1973 groove. The club manager came up and said, "no fusion, you understand, this is a JAZZ club!" Yeah, ok, whatever. Played in a rehearsal band a few years ago and somebody somehow found and brought in a Jaki Byard chart, One Note For My Wife". The thing was fairly closely voiced, with a fair amount of cluster voicings. Wellsir, the chart got handed back in for further examination and a "fixing" of what were assumed to be wrong notes/copyist errors. I mean, yeah, ok, there's plenty of 20th century music that is still not even slightly absorbed, and probablywith good reason. But dammit, you take a look at a landscape where the tolerance for and definition of cultrual and musical "dissonance" is getting tighter and tighter, where people's sense of rhythm is becoming more and more lockstep, and where even the most "singable" melody had better not take that singability for granted, and youtell me that some serious denial about what exists, what is possible, and what is or isn't "daring" isn't going on. But those examples aren't from the "classical" world, you might say. Doesn't matter, I say. Of whom much is given, much is asked, and the lineage of that music leads directly to where it's been, good and bad. Too pick any one point and say "ok, that's it, too far" just because one does not "like" it, without bringing anything else to the mix, is just plain...denialistic. So with all due respect, I'm gonna keep my "the 20th century is over now" thing, broad brush that it may be, if for no other reason than to shift the argument form things like "moderninity" to something more specific. Stuff like "I don't like dissonance" is not just acceptable any more, not when the world really has longer has any real fixed meaning. And why not? Becuase the 20th century was spent stretching that definition (and other) every which way. And the 20th century did happen, and it is over, so let's not get too "sympathetic" to the whole "I turned on the radio the other day and Vic and Sade wasn't on. WTF?" trip, which is where all this is headed much sooner than later.

Thae most intense Barron Savoy is the one that's not been reissued (afaik) - Motivation from 1972. Good GOD!

I want a Prez/Basie 1943-1944 set. Badly.

I dunno, call me Mr. Accomodationalist, but I feel that being "forced" to listen to a little something new/unfamiliar/wahtever is an ok trade-off for getting to hear a lot more of the "favorite flavors". I also feel that having to share the bill with "customer favorites" is an acceptable price for composers & fans of newer musics to pay for the opportunity to get heard in markets w/o a dedicated audience. Maybe it's fighting a losing battle, but if a few people hear it and like it, hey. I don't think that either the "Moral Mandate" or the "Musical Whorehouse" approach to programming is a good one all by itself in markets where audiences tend to not be wither interested in and/or aware of more "modern" musics. Just as a parent does their child no good neither by sheltering from all the harsh realities of the world nor by throwing their children out there to fend for themselves unprepared, I think that programmers have a respsonsibilty to both push the envelope and provide comfort food. Anybody who wants it all one way or the other....well, what kind of a world do you live in where you think that it's all there for just you anyway? Not saying that to be "agressive" or anything, just that it's a big world, doncha' know, and the 20th century is over now, and geez, the clock can't be turned back, nor the cat put bag in the bag, so what's possibly to be gained by not recognizing and proceeding?

That's about it these days. There's a CD Somethingoranotehr in Plano that varies like crazy, but really, the used CD thing here is skelatal verging on dead, and HP is it for vinyl (I don't know either if Bill's os still open, but even if it is, don't bother). Thing is, there's a buttload of 'em all over the area, and ther's not way to predict what'll be in any given one. But start at the main store on NW Hwy, get a map/list, and take it from there. You can always do like the locals do - surf the net and shop like that.

You are obviously an amateur drinker. Uh, can everybody else leave the room now? This is about to get ugly...

Bill Barron on Savoy.

Wow, amped-up fan intensity at an NFL playoff game. I'm shocked, I tell you. SHOCKED.!

What WAS that album? There's some other album with Harold Ousley on it on which Earl plays, but I can't think which. MG, its One More For The Road on Demon Records. And that is a great record, btw. Hell yeah! But I think it was also issued with 1 or 2 different songs on Alligator, no?